Miami school shooting
Discussion
liner33 said:
TTmonkey said:
Severe restriction on ammunition might be the only way forward. Yes you can have your gun at home for self defence, but you can only have a few rounds, and each round costs $5000 to buy/replace outside of a controlled shooting range.
30 rounds for your AR15 at the range will cost you 10 bucks as long as they are are all fired at the range.
30 rounds for your AR15 to take home.... sure, 15 thousand dollars please...... use them in home defence against a bad guy, free replacement.
Can't think of anyway else to both control and limit firearm usage and yet still let allow ownership and usage.
Anyone know how much ammo this kid used the other day? The guy in Houston fired over a thousand and still had plenty in reserve. He had so many rounds he bought multiple weapons to get around the issue of overheating and jamming.
Isnt that a Chris Rock sketch ?30 rounds for your AR15 at the range will cost you 10 bucks as long as they are are all fired at the range.
30 rounds for your AR15 to take home.... sure, 15 thousand dollars please...... use them in home defence against a bad guy, free replacement.
Can't think of anyway else to both control and limit firearm usage and yet still let allow ownership and usage.
Anyone know how much ammo this kid used the other day? The guy in Houston fired over a thousand and still had plenty in reserve. He had so many rounds he bought multiple weapons to get around the issue of overheating and jamming.
Edited by p1stonhead on Sunday 18th February 13:35
iwantagta said:
The NRA did agree to a bump stock ban - but then said it should actually come through the ATF & not congress, which killed it.
TTmonkey said:
Severe restriction on ammunition
30 rounds for your AR15 to take home.... sure, 15 thousand dollars please...... use them in home defence against a bad guy, free replacement.
Can't think of anyway else to both control and limit firearm usage and yet still let allow ownership and usage.
The right to bear arms includes the right to buy ammunition. Arms are only useable with ammunition. 30 rounds for your AR15 to take home.... sure, 15 thousand dollars please...... use them in home defence against a bad guy, free replacement.
Can't think of anyway else to both control and limit firearm usage and yet still let allow ownership and usage.
It would not work even if you get over the unconstitutional problem: hunting is a legitimate use so hunters want reasonably priced ammo. Target shooters want the specific type of ammo they are familiar with, not whatever is at the range on the day.
Not-The-Messiah said:
It represents freedom a choose a way of life for many, cars can be far more than just a tool for getting you from A to B.
Guns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
Aw, some people with masculinity issues will have to hand in their guns. Boo fGuns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
king hoo.That majority of Americans are in favour of improved gun laws so how about b
ks to the tiny minority of people who will get upset. They'll get over it. Perhaps everyone else could club together and send them some thoughts and prayers.durbster said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
It represents freedom a choose a way of life for many, cars can be far more than just a tool for getting you from A to B.
Guns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
Aw, some people with masculinity issues will have to hand in their guns. Boo fGuns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
king hoo.That majority of Americans are in favour of improved gun laws so how about b
ks to the tiny minority of people who will get upset. They'll get over it. Perhaps everyone else could club together and send them some thoughts and prayers.He doesn't like it or particularly want it, but felt it necessary as the level of gun crime (often with legally obtained weapons) is perceived to be that much higher there and he wanted it for home defence.
durbster said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
It represents freedom a choose a way of life for many, cars can be far more than just a tool for getting you from A to B.
Guns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
Aw, some people with masculinity issues will have to hand in their guns. Boo fGuns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
king hoo.That majority of Americans are in favour of improved gun laws so how about b
ks to the tiny minority of people who will get upset. They'll get over it. Perhaps everyone else could club together and send them some thoughts and prayers.mikal83 said:
But a HUGE % of the GOP have taken the NRA's shilling!
Speaking of which, are there simply no rules about conflicts of interest in the US? It does seem that politicians have no qualms about voting for anything their donors demand. I know it happens in the UK to an extent but there are systems in place to mitigate it and it's largely kept in check.DurianIceCream said:
TTmonkey said:
Severe restriction on ammunition
30 rounds for your AR15 to take home.... sure, 15 thousand dollars please...... use them in home defence against a bad guy, free replacement.
Can't think of anyway else to both control and limit firearm usage and yet still let allow ownership and usage.
The right to bear arms includes the right to buy ammunition. Arms are only useable with ammunition. 30 rounds for your AR15 to take home.... sure, 15 thousand dollars please...... use them in home defence against a bad guy, free replacement.
Can't think of anyway else to both control and limit firearm usage and yet still let allow ownership and usage.
It would not work even if you get over the unconstitutional problem: hunting is a legitimate use so hunters want reasonably priced ammo. Target shooters want the specific type of ammo they are familiar with, not whatever is at the range on the day.
Hunting is fine, do it with a proper rifle, bolt action, no magazine. Severely limits the amount of damage someone can do at a school. Doesn't stop it being used obviously. Does anyone use an AR-15 or similar for hunting? If they do, I'd say that's a pretty big warning sign of someone being gun crazy. I don't know enough about guns to be able to tell you much about the ammo, I'm going to guess that the ammo you use for bringing down a deer or for hitting the centre of a target on a shooting club is maybe different from the ammo that goes in an assault rifle of the type used in recent shootings? Dunno. If it isn't different, perhaps it should be....?
I don't believe for a minute that someone who goes out in the woods to stalk and shoot deer is likely to be the same person that takes 12 or more weapons with thousands of rounds to a hotel room to kill innocent people, nor likely to have been upset by what the nasty kids said at school and plan a revenge shooting to guarantee their infamy?
I think the very interesting observation from this side of the Atlantic is that you don't seem to have anyone from the pro gun side of things suggesting some kind of solution. You only seem to hear them refuting a link and objecting to all suggestions. Does anyone on the pro gun side suggest any kind of changes that might help, apart from the old "arm the good guys" stuff....?
TTmonkey said:
Do you mean target shooting away from a licensed and controlled range? Sorry we don't have it in the UK so I'm not 100% sure I understand fully your reply. Only shot gun clay shooting, not rifle shooting. The are controlled gun clubs with ranges, but these are limited to small calibre ammo I believe.
Hunting is fine, do it with a proper rifle, bolt action, no magazine. Severely limits the amount of damage someone can do at a school. Doesn't stop it being used obviously. Does anyone use an AR-15 or similar for hunting? If they do, I'd say that's a pretty big warning sign of someone being gun crazy. I don't know enough about guns to be able to tell you much about the ammo, I'm going to guess that the ammo you use for bringing down a deer or for hitting the centre of a target on a shooting club is maybe different from the ammo that goes in an assault rifle of the type used in recent shootings? Dunno. If it isn't different, perhaps it should be....?
I don't believe for a minute that someone who goes out in the woods to stalk and shoot deer is likely to be the same person that takes 12 or more weapons with thousands of rounds to a hotel room to kill innocent people, nor likely to have been upset by what the nasty kids said at school and plan a revenge shooting to guarantee their infamy?
I think the very interesting observation from this side of the Atlantic is that you don't seem to have anyone from the pro gun side of things suggesting some kind of solution. You only seem to hear them refuting a link and objecting to all suggestions. Does anyone on the pro gun side suggest any kind of changes that might help, apart from the old "arm the good guys" stuff....?
Wow a lot of rubbish there! Hunting is fine, do it with a proper rifle, bolt action, no magazine. Severely limits the amount of damage someone can do at a school. Doesn't stop it being used obviously. Does anyone use an AR-15 or similar for hunting? If they do, I'd say that's a pretty big warning sign of someone being gun crazy. I don't know enough about guns to be able to tell you much about the ammo, I'm going to guess that the ammo you use for bringing down a deer or for hitting the centre of a target on a shooting club is maybe different from the ammo that goes in an assault rifle of the type used in recent shootings? Dunno. If it isn't different, perhaps it should be....?
I don't believe for a minute that someone who goes out in the woods to stalk and shoot deer is likely to be the same person that takes 12 or more weapons with thousands of rounds to a hotel room to kill innocent people, nor likely to have been upset by what the nasty kids said at school and plan a revenge shooting to guarantee their infamy?
I think the very interesting observation from this side of the Atlantic is that you don't seem to have anyone from the pro gun side of things suggesting some kind of solution. You only seem to hear them refuting a link and objecting to all suggestions. Does anyone on the pro gun side suggest any kind of changes that might help, apart from the old "arm the good guys" stuff....?
Yes lots of people use the AR-15 variants for hunting its available in a range of calibres.
You can buy AR-15's in Canada but they have restrictions
The fact a gun "looks" scary, should not be the basis for legislation
Quote " Dean Hazen, a firearms instructor, told USA Today that he thought the gun was getting a "bad rap" and that it wasn't necessarily the most effective way of arbitrarily killing people as quickly as you can. "Thank God they don't know any better because if they did they would use much more effective weapons," he said."
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-an...
TTmonkey said:
Do you mean target shooting away from a licensed and controlled range? Sorry we don't have it in the UK so I'm not 100% sure I understand fully your reply. Only shot gun clay shooting, not rifle shooting. The are controlled gun clubs with ranges, but these are limited to small calibre ammo I believe.
Hunting is fine, do it with a proper rifle, bolt action, no magazine. Severely limits the amount of damage someone can do at a school. Doesn't stop it being used obviously. Does anyone use an AR-15 or similar for hunting? If they do, I'd say that's a pretty big warning sign of someone being gun crazy. I don't know enough about guns to be able to tell you much about the ammo, I'm going to guess that the ammo you use for bringing down a deer or for hitting the centre of a target on a shooting club is maybe different from the ammo that goes in an assault rifle of the type used in recent shootings? Dunno. If it isn't different, perhaps it should be....?
I don't believe for a minute that someone who goes out in the woods to stalk and shoot deer is likely to be the same person that takes 12 or more weapons with thousands of rounds to a hotel room to kill innocent people, nor likely to have been upset by what the nasty kids said at school and plan a revenge shooting to guarantee their infamy?
I think the very interesting observation from this side of the Atlantic is that you don't seem to have anyone from the pro gun side of things suggesting some kind of solution. You only seem to hear them refuting a link and objecting to all suggestions. Does anyone on the pro gun side suggest any kind of changes that might help, apart from the old "arm the good guys" stuff....?
Rifle ranges in the UK aren't limited small calibre ammo. Most gun club ranges are due to being short range but other larger ranges are available.Hunting is fine, do it with a proper rifle, bolt action, no magazine. Severely limits the amount of damage someone can do at a school. Doesn't stop it being used obviously. Does anyone use an AR-15 or similar for hunting? If they do, I'd say that's a pretty big warning sign of someone being gun crazy. I don't know enough about guns to be able to tell you much about the ammo, I'm going to guess that the ammo you use for bringing down a deer or for hitting the centre of a target on a shooting club is maybe different from the ammo that goes in an assault rifle of the type used in recent shootings? Dunno. If it isn't different, perhaps it should be....?
I don't believe for a minute that someone who goes out in the woods to stalk and shoot deer is likely to be the same person that takes 12 or more weapons with thousands of rounds to a hotel room to kill innocent people, nor likely to have been upset by what the nasty kids said at school and plan a revenge shooting to guarantee their infamy?
I think the very interesting observation from this side of the Atlantic is that you don't seem to have anyone from the pro gun side of things suggesting some kind of solution. You only seem to hear them refuting a link and objecting to all suggestions. Does anyone on the pro gun side suggest any kind of changes that might help, apart from the old "arm the good guys" stuff....?
https://nra.org.uk/nra-bisley/ranges/latest-range-...
The problem with hunting without a magazine is that if an animal is only wounded it's regarded as good practice to finish it off, and a large wounded animal could well make off while the hunter is reloading.
Terms are often used loosely but strictly speaking an assault rifle is a rifle using smaller calibre less powerful ammo than a traditional rifle and capable of automatic fire.
The type of weapon typically used in mass shootings is an AR-15. 'AR-15' used to refer to a colt produced weapon just as 'PC' used to mean an IBM PC. But now it's a generic term. An AR-15 is not an assault rifle because it isn't fully automatic. AR-15s are often used for hunting in the US, they are widely available, and relatively easy to fire accurately. Also they have a magazine.
There is an American term 'Assault weapon' which is used to refer to semi automatic rifles which have a pistol grip plus any one of a number of minor features EG folding stock. The type of ammo used is irrelevant AFAIK. This terms covers AR-15s and is used to imply they belong in the military and blur the boundaries between AR-15 type rifles and assault rifles. In reality the AR-15 is designed specifically for civilian use. I've fired 'assault weapons' at civilian ranges in the UK and I see the appeal for this activity over the genuinely military rifles such as Lee Enfields which I've used at such ranges in the past.
The ammunition used for hunting Deer is typically 0.257 or 0.303 inch as opposed to the 0.22 or thereabouts typically used in AR-15s.
rscott said:
Switzerland has very high levels of gun ownership, doesn't require a license for single shot hunting weapons, yet has very low gun crime. It's also an offence to transport a loaded gun...
if someone wanted to do something this bad there is close to nil chance police would stop him and take his weapons(if they didn't have information in advance)also the person who's going to commit murder and inevitably end up in jail won't give a f
k about breaking another lawdurbster said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
It represents freedom a choose a way of life for many, cars can be far more than just a tool for getting you from A to B.
Guns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
Aw, some people with masculinity issues will have to hand in their guns. Boo fGuns are the same in America they are more than just a bits of metal. And in the same way as people who aren't car nuts cant understand the obsession with cars it's the same with guns.
king hoo.That majority of Americans are in favour of improved gun laws so how about b
ks to the tiny minority of people who will get upset. They'll get over it. Perhaps everyone else could club together and send them some thoughts and prayers.ks to the tiny minority of people who will get upset, they'll get over it? The point I was making gun culture in the US in a sort of ideology and logic and common sense don't work against ideologies and just trying to ban them can cause even bigger problems.
You could have a similar argument with almost any religion an illogical idea that doesn't stand up to scrutiny that a small minority of it followers can used to do harm to others. Should we start banning religion because of it?
I personally do think the gun laws in the US are daft but also admire them in a way with the amount of freedoms they do have as citizens.
AreOut said:
if someone wanted to do something this bad there is close to nil chance police would stop him and take his weapons(if they didn't have information in advance)
also the person who's going to commit murder and inevitably end up in jail won't give a fk about breaking another law
Yeah man. It's a total waste of time and resources trying to prevent crimes before they happen isn't it. Let's not bother. Que sera sera.also the person who's going to commit murder and inevitably end up in jail won't give a f
k about breaking another lawAreOut said:
you do realize you couldn't (realistically) prevent this crime if you introduced law that would forbid carrying guns in public? what are the odds he'd be randomly stopped by a police officer?
Repeat as necessary - durbster said:
Yeah man. It's a total waste of time and resources trying to prevent crimes before they happen isn't it. Let's not bother. Que sera sera.
AreOut said:
rscott said:
Switzerland has very high levels of gun ownership, doesn't require a license for single shot hunting weapons, yet has very low gun crime. It's also an offence to transport a loaded gun...
if someone wanted to do something this bad there is close to nil chance police would stop him and take his weapons(if they didn't have information in advance)also the person who's going to commit murder and inevitably end up in jail won't give a f
k about breaking another lawrscott said:
AreOut said:
rscott said:
Switzerland has very high levels of gun ownership, doesn't require a license for single shot hunting weapons, yet has very low gun crime. It's also an offence to transport a loaded gun...
if someone wanted to do something this bad there is close to nil chance police would stop him and take his weapons(if they didn't have information in advance)also the person who's going to commit murder and inevitably end up in jail won't give a f
k about breaking another lawPenelope Stopit said:
It's all about gun culture, a fresh start is needed and people need educating, at a guess it would take something like 50 years to show some positive results
I wonder why there hasn't been a national strike over this situation
There's a planned nationwide student walkout in March I believe. Perhaps the next generation will be a little more enlightened. I wonder why there hasn't been a national strike over this situation
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff