Iceland to ban circumcision
Discussion
The Surveyor said:
Circumcision has been a tradition within certain groups for centuries, the choice of the parents has been respected in the UK and is tolerated in UK law provided that the procedure is done safely.
What has changed in the world where that tradition is now being looked at differently? Serious question, why is it now seen in the same way as FGM rather than a harmless procedure:-
- Is this anti-religion (religion being seen as a collective evil and the cause of war, not peace)
- Is this a sign of children's rights overtaking the beliefs for the parent (no smacking, no snipping..)
- Is this a product of increased awareness of kiddy-fiddling
- A wider political leaning towards a PC society
Perhaps not so much anti religion as not blind acceptance that their wishes trump everyone else's.What has changed in the world where that tradition is now being looked at differently? Serious question, why is it now seen in the same way as FGM rather than a harmless procedure:-
- Is this anti-religion (religion being seen as a collective evil and the cause of war, not peace)
- Is this a sign of children's rights overtaking the beliefs for the parent (no smacking, no snipping..)
- Is this a product of increased awareness of kiddy-fiddling
- A wider political leaning towards a PC society
The rights of the individual should be paramount of course, and perhaps it is not before time that this has been recognised.
Whilst it is not kiddy-fiddling as such, it is physical abuse.
PC taken as a derogatory term but when one considers what is included in the umbrella term, it is obviously of benefit when it protects children.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
I do not follow your reasoning at all.
Your second sentence, as far as I can understand it, only follows your first in order of appearance, but not in logic. Given that is surely what the circumcised man must 'put up with' everyday (aside from the difficulty of tending to ones foreskin to ensure it remains pulled back?
I was referring to the sensitivity as a result of having the head of your penis exposed when it's brushing against your underwear. Either there's a reduction in sensitivity that allows you to endure it or it explains why the circumcised posters on here are so angry.Your second sentence, as far as I can understand it, only follows your first in order of appearance, but not in logic. Given that is surely what the circumcised man must 'put up with' everyday (aside from the difficulty of tending to ones foreskin to ensure it remains pulled back?
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Oakey said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
By the same reasoning, a person who has never had the procedure is in no better position to judge the effects, or indeed to know if there would be any appreciable reduction in sensation whatsoever.
I call bulls
t, those with foreskins can pull theirs back and try walking around like that for a day. It doesn't take long to think "no circumcised man puts up with this st day in, day out". Your second sentence, as far as I can understand it, only follows your first in order of appearance, but not in logic. Given that is surely what the circumcised man must 'put up with' everyday (aside from the difficulty of tending to ones foreskin to ensure it remains pulled back?
Uncut men are saying that if that is true, there must be a level of desensitisation during childhood, as no one who pulls their foreskin back and goes about normal daily life recognises a large level of discomfort.
So your premise that uncut men couldn't possibly know if circumcision leads to desensitisation is logically false. Whereas it's logically true that those who were cut as babies cannot tell they are desensitised.
Lastly, as per my message to adult mate cut last year at 38, there absolutely is massive discomfort and a gradual easing which he puts down to desensitisation.
Oakey said:
There are medical benefits to having your tonsils or appendix removed and no negatives to doing so, but nobody is strolling into their GP on a whim asking to have those removed from their infants to reduce the risk of having apendicitis or throat infections.
There are very few parts of your body you would do better without, and the tonsils are not one of them. The appendix probably isn't one either. Evolution is much cleverer than current medical knowledge.There is a reason it is now much harder to convince a GP to refer you to have them taken out and it has nothing to do with money.
I'm late to this thread, but my contribution is a simple one. I was present at a circumcision (I think it was called a "bris"?), and I'll never forget it. The screams of the infant as he was held down by adult believers, the howling sobs of his mother sat in the kitchen whilst it was done, and the embarrassed silence of the invited gentiles like me will never leave me.
"Duriani wotsit", you can make all the claims you want about health benefits, and I don't care. What I witnessed was child abuse, pure and simple, driven by generations of religious instruction and lacking any genuine humanity. When something is just wrong, and child abuse is right up there, there is no justification. Your attempts to provide that leave me exasperated and sad.
"Duriani wotsit", you can make all the claims you want about health benefits, and I don't care. What I witnessed was child abuse, pure and simple, driven by generations of religious instruction and lacking any genuine humanity. When something is just wrong, and child abuse is right up there, there is no justification. Your attempts to provide that leave me exasperated and sad.
Brave Fart said:
I'm late to this thread, but my contribution is a simple one. I was present at a circumcision (I think it was called a "bris"?), and I'll never forget it. The screams of the infant as he was held down by adult believers, the howling sobs of his mother sat in the kitchen whilst it was done, and the embarrassed silence of the invited gentiles like me will never leave me.
That is harrowing.What the f
k is wrong with humanity!!!!Oakey said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
I do not follow your reasoning at all.
Your second sentence, as far as I can understand it, only follows your first in order of appearance, but not in logic. Given that is surely what the circumcised man must 'put up with' everyday (aside from the difficulty of tending to ones foreskin to ensure it remains pulled back?
I was referring to the sensitivity as a result of having the head of your penis exposed when it's brushing against your underwear. Either there's a reduction in sensitivity that allows you to endure it or it explains why the circumcised posters on here are so angry.Your second sentence, as far as I can understand it, only follows your first in order of appearance, but not in logic. Given that is surely what the circumcised man must 'put up with' everyday (aside from the difficulty of tending to ones foreskin to ensure it remains pulled back?
turbomoped said:
Big deal.Dull place and £85 for a pint of lager.
I wonder where iceplace stand on all the body piercings you get in these doom and gloom northern latitudes.
People are always geting blood poisoning from the bits of metal stuck through their bellend's and stuff.
Some people die from it.
Yes but IT IS AN ADULT that decided to get a Prince Albert of their own free will.I wonder where iceplace stand on all the body piercings you get in these doom and gloom northern latitudes.
People are always geting blood poisoning from the bits of metal stuck through their bellend's and stuff.
Some people die from it.
The difference is stark.
Genuinely confused why people are drawing parallels between such entirely different situations.
turbomoped said:
Big deal.Dull place and £85 for a pint of lager.
I wonder where iceplace stand on all the body piercings you get in these doom and gloom northern latitudes.
People are always geting blood poisoning from the bits of metal stuck through their bellend's and stuff.
Some people die from it.
No one is suggesting adults shouldn't be able to choose to have it done. Unless you're suggesting people are also getting prince Alberts done on babies too? I wonder where iceplace stand on all the body piercings you get in these doom and gloom northern latitudes.
People are always geting blood poisoning from the bits of metal stuck through their bellend's and stuff.
Some people die from it.
julian64 said:
There are very few parts of your body you would do better without, and the tonsils are not one of them. The appendix probably isn't one either. Evolution is much cleverer than current medical knowledge.
There is a reason it is now much harder to convince a GP to refer you to have them taken out and it has nothing to do with money.
As an aside I had appendicitis 2.5 years ago and had mine removed, at my GP's recommendation. I can't imagine many adults were just walking in to their GP and asking to have it removed for the sake of it?There is a reason it is now much harder to convince a GP to refer you to have them taken out and it has nothing to do with money.
del mar said:
If they aren't cut at birth, does God strike them down with a lightening bolt?
By cutting kids at birth the religious nut jobs are suggesting their god got his creation wrong.Personally I'm against all forms of genital mutilation on religious grounds. Medical or personal choice, fine.
turbomoped said:
Big deal.Dull place and £85 for a pint of lager.
I wonder where iceplace stand on all the body piercings you get in these doom and gloom northern latitudes.
People are always geting blood poisoning from the bits of metal stuck through their bellend's and stuff.
Some people die from it.
Far from dull and you can get a cheap beer if you look hard enough. Doom and gloom? They love a party the Icelandics!I wonder where iceplace stand on all the body piercings you get in these doom and gloom northern latitudes.
People are always geting blood poisoning from the bits of metal stuck through their bellend's and stuff.
Some people die from it.
Body piercings are by consent so not really a valid comparison to non consensual circumcision.
Wow! 10 pages in a day to catch up on!
And still no real reason to justify circumcision. If a man wants to use circumcision as a defence against HIV,rather than a condom, then let him decide when he becomes sexually active. Most babies having it done will not be at real risk of HIV, so that cannot be why its needed.
Making it illegal would be easy with the political will-the anti FGM law is very short & straightforward, no reason an ati MGM cant be. As for enforcement,Ive no idea why it isnt prosecuted, the evidence is there and so it should be easy, perhaps a fear of offence like in Rotherham? But thats no excuse
I wonder how many religious types,if MGM is made illegal for babies, would actually go through with it? Would their traditional,"Ill go along with it because it's usual" type of religious observance go against wanting to be criminalised.
And for the record,I had mine done for medical reasons as a baby,and there were complications that needed an op later in life. Obviously there was a risk of GA surgery,I was more worried about all the hot nurses looking at my junk*
* and swooning...obvs!
And still no real reason to justify circumcision. If a man wants to use circumcision as a defence against HIV,rather than a condom, then let him decide when he becomes sexually active. Most babies having it done will not be at real risk of HIV, so that cannot be why its needed.
Making it illegal would be easy with the political will-the anti FGM law is very short & straightforward, no reason an ati MGM cant be. As for enforcement,Ive no idea why it isnt prosecuted, the evidence is there and so it should be easy, perhaps a fear of offence like in Rotherham? But thats no excuse
I wonder how many religious types,if MGM is made illegal for babies, would actually go through with it? Would their traditional,"Ill go along with it because it's usual" type of religious observance go against wanting to be criminalised.
And for the record,I had mine done for medical reasons as a baby,and there were complications that needed an op later in life. Obviously there was a risk of GA surgery,I was more worried about all the hot nurses looking at my junk*
* and swooning...obvs!
Brave Fart said:
I'm late to this thread, but my contribution is a simple one. I was present at a circumcision (I think it was called a "bris"?), and I'll never forget it. The screams of the infant as he was held down by adult believers, the howling sobs of his mother sat in the kitchen whilst it was done, and the embarrassed silence of the invited gentiles like me will never leave me.
"Duriani wotsit", you can make all the claims you want about health benefits, and I don't care. What I witnessed was child abuse, pure and simple, driven by generations of religious instruction and lacking any genuine humanity. When something is just wrong, and child abuse is right up there, there is no justification. Your attempts to provide that leave me exasperated and sad.
that had me seriously wince."Duriani wotsit", you can make all the claims you want about health benefits, and I don't care. What I witnessed was child abuse, pure and simple, driven by generations of religious instruction and lacking any genuine humanity. When something is just wrong, and child abuse is right up there, there is no justification. Your attempts to provide that leave me exasperated and sad.
edited. Irrelevant.
Dromedary66 said:
That is harrowing.
What the fk is wrong with humanity!!!!
Yeah, fWhat the f
k is wrong with humanity!!!!king hell! Millions, a billion even circumcised men absolutely totally traumatised and abused as kids, only they are blissfully unaware they have been traumatised and abused and go about their lives as if nothing had happened. Even when they look down at their circumcised todget, they still don't realise they are victims! If only they could read this thread!DurianIceCream said:
Dromedary66 said:
That is harrowing.
What the fk is wrong with humanity!!!!
Yeah, fWhat the f
k is wrong with humanity!!!!king hell! Millions, a billion even circumcised men absolutely totally traumatised and abused as kids, only they are blissfully unaware they have been traumatised and abused and go about their lives as if nothing had happened. Even when they look down at their circumcised todget, they still don't realise they are victims! If only they could read this thread!This speaks volumes.
Have a look at https://www.genitalautonomy.org etc
Let's see if you can understand a different point of view.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Me?I don't think it is relavant - I have no objection to circumcision as I believe it is either not harmful or actually beneficial. And I believe in the right of patents to make decisions for their children, without state intervention.
Regardless, I have no religious beliefs which really require circusion.
Edited by DurianIceCream on Wednesday 21st February 19:03
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