Iceland to ban circumcision

[Sway]

Yet you've ignored some clear examples of losses that are suffered by everyone who is circumcised - whilst being happy to use some very misrepresentative claims of limited support by authorities.

[Troubleatmill]

DurianIceCream said:

Regardless, I have no religious beliefs which really require circusion.
[/footnote]

Islam - Circumcision isn't required, but it is seen as desirable by the members?

[DurianIceCream]

Troubleatmill said:

You never ever answer when questioned about the right of the child to chose.
This speaks volumes.


Have a look at https://www.genitalautonomy.org etc

Let's see if you can understand a different point of view.

I've answered several times. I believe in the right of parents to make decisions for their young children. You believe this too, or you would be suggesting banning all religious education of children along with everything else which is not strictly necessary. Infact without the right of parents to decide for their young children, we would have a compulsory state mandated human development program from birth; not the liberal 'leave it to parents but with a bit of state oversight' which we do have.

I am not seeing all these men who have been traumatised by circumcision. I note your own link says this trauma is unrecognised by medical professionals. Perhaps this is because it doesn't exist.

[Sway]

There are a billion men who do not know what they have lost. The fact they are ignorant dies not make it OK.

There are tens of millions who believe the Kims are benevolent gods who improve their every day purely through existing - are they not abused by their regime?

[Oakey]

I'm thinking of forcing a lip plate on my 4yr old son because why the hell not?

[Sway]

Oakey said:

I'm thinking of forcing a lip plate on my 4yr old son because why the hell not?

Can't see any downsides. Plus there are some clear positives (no need to ever juggle three things at once, for a start). Crack on chap.

[Leroy902]

Ban circumcision, get jews and Muslims to leave the UK, UK goes bankrupt. Can't see who that benefits.

[DurianIceCream]

Sway said:

There are a billion men who do not know what they have lost. The fact they are ignorant dies not make it OK.

There are tens of millions who believe the Kims are benevolent gods who improve their every day purely through existing - are they not abused by their regime?

Hahaha, a billion men. A billion men. All abused. All suffering daily. You never read about it, you never hear about it, but they are everywhere. The big elephant in the room. It's just like North Korea. Nobody is allowed to talk about it. It's two separate tribes of men. Hahahahaha. I think you need to go back on the meds.

[Sway]

DurianIceCream said:

Sway said:

There are a billion men who do not know what they have lost. The fact they are ignorant dies not make it OK.

There are tens of millions who believe the Kims are benevolent gods who improve their every day purely through existing - are they not abused by their regime?

Hahaha, a billion men. A billion men. All abused. All suffering daily. You never read about it, you never hear about it, but they are everywhere. The big elephant in the room. It's just like North Korea. Nobody is allowed to talk about it. It's two separate tribes of men. Hahahahaha. I think you need to go back on the meds.

So, how do you reconcile the clear reduction in sensitivity, as reported by uncut men exposing their glans during daily activities, or men cut later in life?

Is that not a downside?

You're the one acting as though the opinion and experiences of uncut men are meaningless.

Here's a thought experiment for you. Imagine a society where everyone has their left arm removed at birth. For some reason it's deemed unnecessary, and therefore everyone has it amputated in theatre.

Which members of that society would be able to recognise what experiences and capabilities those amputees are missing out on?

Edited by Sway on Wednesday 21st February 19:33

[Sway]

Oh, and you can also stop making up arguments as though they are mine - I've never said blokes can't talk (in fact I posted an example earlier of asking a mate). Equally, there have been a few more reasoned posters who are cut who have said that they don't experience any day to day discomfort.

Whereas no uncut bloke has said the same about having their glans exposed.

[DurianIceCream]

Sway said:

Here's a thought experiment for you. Imagine a society where everyone has their left arm removed at birth.

I'm already in a thought experiment where everyone has had the left side of their brain removed

[Sway]

DurianIceCream said:

Sway said:

Here's a thought experiment for you. Imagine a society where everyone has their left arm removed at birth.

I'm already in a thought experiment where everyone has had the left side of their brain removed

An excellent deflection. Fancy trying to actually respond to any of my points? After all, I'm not the person throwing out insults...

Otherwise it really will confirm the general view that your opinion is formed through brainwashing, with a little side of cognitive dissonance.

[feef]

DurianIceCream said:

Troubleatmill said:

You never ever answer when questioned about the right of the child to chose.
This speaks volumes.


Have a look at https://www.genitalautonomy.org etc

Let's see if you can understand a different point of view.

I've answered several times. I believe in the right of parents to make decisions for their young children. You believe this too, or you would be suggesting banning all religious education of children along with everything else which is not strictly necessary.

I would actively encourage religious education, education in all religions. But teaching and educating about religion, not teaching them to follow a specific religion. Again, that choice should be made by the individual

[technodup]

I'd hate to be brainwashed by cult nutters. Millions of the fkers don't make them right.

The comparison with the Kims is appropriate.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

technodup said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Well quite clearly they can't. Not only can they not multitask, they cannot even make headway on the single task of enforcing the current illegal status of FGM.

FGM has been illegal for decades. 1 prosecution so far, despite 1000s of discovered cases. Does that not concern anyone wishing to add a few million circumcisions into the mix?

If we're talking about the UK I imagine the incidence of FGM is fairly low, confined to some very specific groups and done very much off grid. Somewhat different to circumcisions done by doctors or rabbis in a comparatively standard and 'above board' manner.

But either way, the fact that something is difficult to achieve is not a satisfactory reason for not trying. It's a common remainer argument and it's as much bks there as it is here. The best outcomes ARE difficult to achieve.

It's low compared to circumcision, which should make the law easier to enforce. Easier to deal with a few thousand lawbreakers than a few million. But we have been completely unable to get to grips with it, and British girls continue to be mutilated both here, and abroad. There is a reluctance to prosecute, due to a combination of factors, ranging from what we laughing call cultural sensitivities thru to what do you do with all the kids, boys and girls, when mum and dad are in prison. Our child services and social workers are under immense pressure as it is.

I fail to see how the issue of dealing with FGM and the protection of girls in the future is going to be helped by bringing circumcision to the party.

I find it absolutely mindboggling that anyone is remotely fussed about circumcision in a country where FGM affects thousands of girls. People seem to have lost sight of priorities. It's like people in the USA calling for a ban on catapults, whilst mass shootings continue on a regular basis.

Now Iceland hasn't got an FGM problem, so their stance makes far more sense.

[yellowtang]

Interesting thread!

Firstly, I should probably state that I am circumcised. Secondly, I have a three year old son, he isn't and never will be circumcised (save medical necessity).

I was chopped as a baby, not for religious or medical reasons as such, but because of some daft notion of preventative maintenance! My father had foreskin problems at 9 years old and was subsequently circumcised. Growing up in the 1980's (UK) I did actually know a couple of other lads my age who had also been chopped for the same 'reasons'. Seems common in the USA albeit now starting to decline (thankfully).

Personally, while I do believe non medicallly necessary circumcision should be outlawed, no ifs no buts, I haven't actually had any negative side effects myself. Much has been said about sensitively on this thread and I have to say, I'm certain that being circumcised reduces feeling down there a little, I can only make a guess on this, as clearly I've never known any different. However, from discussions with friends on such delicate matters! I concluded that I'm probably somewhat less sensitive than they are.

However, it's not all bad news, slightly less sensitive isn't the same as lacking any sensation! From my own experience, women have commented a lot on my stamina!

While we are on the subject of women/partners - most (and it's not 100's, sadly!) of the women I've slept with have been intrigued and even liked my circumcised state.

I cannot quite believe the outrageous attempts at justifying circumcision by one or two posters on here, while I can very much vouch for the fact that it doesn't generally impact men in a negative way, that alone is not justification for doing it to child! Any other body part and it would be unlawful......go figure!

Religion is about controlling people, it always has been and always will be. Circumsion is rather depressing part of that ideal.

[DurianIceCream]

Sway said:

An excellent deflection. Fancy trying to actually respond to any of my points? After all, I'm not the person throwing out...

Sorry, couldn't help it

Your non-dominant arm has an obvious use. Your foreskin has no use. Without a left arm, people could imagine what they could do with an extra arm. I can imagine what I'd do with a third arm. There isn't anything to do with a foreskin.

[BugLebowski]

The comparison a few pages back to tonsils is an interesting one. Tonsils used to be removed regularly and if you're over a certain age there is a decent chance you've had them out. Where once we thought that tonsils were unimportant, we now know that they do play a part in our immune response. Even the appendix, which has been seen as a vestigial organ has now been shown to possibly have some function.

It seems like whenever we are unsure of an organ's function, we assume it's useless, only to be surprised later when that turns out not to be the case.

As evidenced by this thread it's an emotive topic, but perhaps the strongest argument is this: if I wanted to be circumcised I could book an appointment tomorrow and get it lopped off. The same could not be said for someone on the other side of the argument.

[CrutyRammers]

DurianIceCream said:

Me?

I don't think it is relavant - I have no objection to circumcision as I believe it is either not harmful or actually beneficial. And I believe in the right of patents to make decisions for their children, without state intervention.

Regardless, I have no religious beliefs which really require circusion.

Edited by DurianIceCream on Wednesday 21st February 19:03

The only reason people do this to their kids, aside from medical interventions, is to indoctrinate them into their particular belief system before theyre old enough to question it. It's the only way religion survives, brainwashing before they're old enough to resist.

[gooner1]

DurianIceCream said:

I'm already in a thought experiment where everyone has had the left side of their brain removed

so you've had a lobotomy, as well as a lop off of you?