Iceland to ban circumcision
Discussion
Dromedary66 said:
There is over 40 references at the end if you bother to look. You wouldn't believe anything that goes against your sky daddy's wishes even if every doctor on the planet told you how malevolent this sickening procedure is.
The references include the Miami Herald and NewsNet5. The other journal papers referenced, in the body of the text you can see that there are being conclusions drawn which are not supported by the quoted references. This is a propaganda piece by an anti-circumcision activist. I asked you for a peer reviewed medical paper from a recognised and neutral journal. You have offered nothing in return except insults. So go find a paper or p
s off. DurianIceCream said:
Dromedary66 said:
There is over 40 references at the end if you bother to look. You wouldn't believe anything that goes against your sky daddy's wishes even if every doctor on the planet told you how malevolent this sickening procedure is.
The references include the Miami Herald and NewsNet5. The other journal papers referenced, in the body of the text you can see that there are being conclusions drawn which are not supported by the quoted references. This is a propaganda piece by an anti-circumcision activist. I asked you for a peer reviewed medical paper from a recognised and neutral journal. You have offered nothing in return except insults. So go find a paper or p
s off. https://bmcurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186...
Don't start banging on about it not being a proper study, it's a lit review. The actual, proper scientific studies that this article reviews are listed inamongst the 80 references cited.
You asked for a peer reviewed medical paper from a recognised and neutral journal.
I have given you a lit review based on 80 of the above. References 2,3 and 4 should be enough to satisfy your desire to have your debating position well and truly trashed.
Here's the 3 references.
Kaplan GW: Complications of circumcision. Urol Clin North Am. 1983, 10: 543-549.
PubMedGoogle Scholar
Lerman SE, Liao JC: Neonatal circumcision. Pediatr Clin North Am. 2001, 48: 1539-1557. 10.1016/S0031-3955(05)70390-4.
View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
Williams N, Kapila L: Complications of circumcision. Br J Surg. 1993, 80: 1231-1236. 10.1002/bjs.1800801005.
View ArticlePubMedGoogle Scholar
The British Journal of Surgery is a highly regarded publication. That one article pretty much destroys your entire arguing position. 5 pages of eye watering facts that dissolves your views. You can read the rest yourself, I have better things to do with my life
You can thank me later. You asked for it, called someones bluff and voila, wiccy delivers.
You're welcome.
DurianIceCream said:
Circumcision is not a panacea for stopping HIV/AIDS. But unlike FGM which has no positive medical outcomes and has very negative effects on the victim, circumcision has some positive medical outcomes and no negative effects on the child, other than a short period of discomfort.
Is it my imagination, or did the pre edited version of the above say something along the lines of the children are too young anyhow to even remember the pain?Edited by DurianIceCream on Wednesday 21st February 11:58
Is there a way to check the original? At the time of first reading my thought was that I’ve just witnessed a statement that was tantamount to saying that it’s ok to abuse a child if they are too young to remember it.
Sway said:
Where are these Rabbi/Imam conducted procedures carried out? Is there a formal training and licensing structure in place?
How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
It's amazing how difficult it is to get a simple answer to this question - from those espousing the safety and cultural benefits of the practice, or stating it 'does no harm'... How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
Sway said:
Sway said:
Where are these Rabbi/Imam conducted procedures carried out? Is there a formal training and licensing structure in place?
How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
It's amazing how difficult it is to get a simple answer to this question - from those espousing the safety and cultural benefits of the practice, or stating it 'does no harm'... How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
A mohel is licensed by the Beth Den and must have medical training
The instruments are sterilised beforehand
The vast majority of brit milah (jewish circumcision) are performed in the family home, in front of family and friends, normally first thing in the morning
It's interesting to see a different viewpoint - your stated reaction to having no quick answer to your question is that you find it amazing that it's difficult to find an answer to your question, but my reaction is that I find it amazing people have such strong views on a topic they clearly know little about on a practical level. I say that not to argue or be confrontational, instead simply to comment on how two people can instinctively react so differently to the lack of a quick response to your question
jonby said:
Sway said:
Sway said:
Where are these Rabbi/Imam conducted procedures carried out? Is there a formal training and licensing structure in place?
How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
It's amazing how difficult it is to get a simple answer to this question - from those espousing the safety and cultural benefits of the practice, or stating it 'does no harm'... How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
A mohel is licensed by the Beth Den and must have medical training
The instruments are sterilised beforehand
The vast majority of brit milah (jewish circumcision) are performed in the family home, in front of family and friends, normally first thing in the morning
It's interesting to see a different viewpoint - your stated reaction to having no quick answer to your question is that you find it amazing that it's difficult to find an answer to your question, but my reaction is that I find it amazing people have such strong views on a topic they clearly know little about on a practical level. I say that not to argue or be confrontational, instead simply to comment on how two people can instinctively react so differently to the lack of a quick response to your question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SD5WGCAXs0
Thanks Jonby.
My consternation was based on the fact that proponents of the practice for religious reasons were stating how safe it is, yet seemed reluctant to even consider answering.
My objections have nothing to do with the religious or cultural aspect - I just find it exceptionally odd that we routinely cut bits off kids without medical cause. Just strikes me as very, very strange that a practice that does so is still permitted.
On the 'medical training' a moult required to have, is that delivered 'within the faith' as the licencing seems to be? Are practices such as the sucking of the blood still permitted?
No interrogation, as said, I find it really odd that a tattooist operating for money must be licensed and premises audited, yet there seem to be exceptions purely based on religious mores - again, something I just find really strange logically.
My consternation was based on the fact that proponents of the practice for religious reasons were stating how safe it is, yet seemed reluctant to even consider answering.
My objections have nothing to do with the religious or cultural aspect - I just find it exceptionally odd that we routinely cut bits off kids without medical cause. Just strikes me as very, very strange that a practice that does so is still permitted.
On the 'medical training' a moult required to have, is that delivered 'within the faith' as the licencing seems to be? Are practices such as the sucking of the blood still permitted?
No interrogation, as said, I find it really odd that a tattooist operating for money must be licensed and premises audited, yet there seem to be exceptions purely based on religious mores - again, something I just find really strange logically.
Schermerhorn said:
If you ever watch a porn film you'll notice how many men are circumsiced and less than 1% (probably) are Muslims or Jews.
In other words = women prefer smega free c0cks.
Interesting conclusion. In other words = women prefer smega free c0cks.
The same outcome can be achieved through non surgical means such as showering on a regular basis....
If you ever watch a porn film, it'll most likely have been made in the US, where it is prevalent to chop bits off cocks.
It's also prevalent to treat guns like Swiss army knives, eat their bodyweight in sugar every week, and be righteously puritan on most media - yet have step family grot be the highest searches on pornhub...
Hardly a case for 'women prefer it', or the rigorous application of logic.
It's also prevalent to treat guns like Swiss army knives, eat their bodyweight in sugar every week, and be righteously puritan on most media - yet have step family grot be the highest searches on pornhub...
Hardly a case for 'women prefer it', or the rigorous application of logic.
Troubleatmill said:
jonby said:
Sway said:
Sway said:
Where are these Rabbi/Imam conducted procedures carried out? Is there a formal training and licensing structure in place?
How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
It's amazing how difficult it is to get a simple answer to this question - from those espousing the safety and cultural benefits of the practice, or stating it 'does no harm'... How about approved sterilisation methods and processes?
A mohel is licensed by the Beth Den and must have medical training
The instruments are sterilised beforehand
The vast majority of brit milah (jewish circumcision) are performed in the family home, in front of family and friends, normally first thing in the morning
It's interesting to see a different viewpoint - your stated reaction to having no quick answer to your question is that you find it amazing that it's difficult to find an answer to your question, but my reaction is that I find it amazing people have such strong views on a topic they clearly know little about on a practical level. I say that not to argue or be confrontational, instead simply to comment on how two people can instinctively react so differently to the lack of a quick response to your question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SD5WGCAXs0
Sway said:
Thanks Jonby.
Are practices such as the sucking of the blood still permitted?
Still practiced and revered by ultra orthodox jews - in New York alone since 2015 there have been a number of reported cases of babies contracting herpes after having a mohel's mouth around their bleeding genitals.Are practices such as the sucking of the blood still permitted?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/nyc-...
But Durian says it's harmful and even beneficial so that's alright then.
Edited by Dromedary66 on Friday 23 February 08:43
jonby said:
I can only answer about Jewish circumcisions. You have to be a mohel to carry out the procedure - not all rabbis are mohel and not all mohel are rabbis
A mohel is licensed by the Beth Den and must have medical training
Jonby, if a Jewish family wanted their son circumcised, but wanted it done in a hospital/clinic by an actual doctor, with no religious input at all, would that be acceptable? Is it the end result that's the goal or isn't it valid if prayers and stuff aren't said at the time? A mohel is licensed by the Beth Den and must have medical training
It's not overly relevant to this debate, just interested to know.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff