Dear University lecturers - get back to work
Discussion
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
Do you think that couldn’t very easily be changed. My lads partners brother teaches English in China, they are, as a Nation, very ambitious to attract English teachers.
Not difficult to see how this can be expanded and no doubt will be.
What are his DB pension arrangements?Not difficult to see how this can be expanded and no doubt will be.
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
. What really gets my goat is those at the top gorging on money whilst the workers have some crumbs tossed at them. Exaggerated for effect of course.
And yet you seem to be in favour of huge pensions for some, subsidised by many who will themselves be in straitened circumstances.Perhaps the tax implications need to be reconsidered for workers and Corporations.
4x4Tyke said:
It is shocking that so many people can't think this through.
How would you feel is your agreed pension was plundered, you would be pissed.
It is insane that their contracts can respectively rewritten and the public are fine with this.
I think it's shocking that people can't take the time to understand what's happening before saying it's wrong. No pensions are being plundered. No contracts are being re-written. Earned pensions stay earned, it's a proposal for new arrangement going forward. It's a very generous new offer, that would be better than 95% of the working population receive. How would you feel is your agreed pension was plundered, you would be pissed.
It is insane that their contracts can respectively rewritten and the public are fine with this.
sidicks said:
Tony - you seem very confused about what lauda has actually said. Why are you trying to tell a pension expert about DB pensions, when he clearly knows more than you?
Just because you are intelligent with decent (other) qualifications, doesn’t mean that you know more than a pension expert who has been doing this for 15+ years.
PM sent by way of explanation. Just because you are intelligent with decent (other) qualifications, doesn’t mean that you know more than a pension expert who has been doing this for 15+ years.
Edited by sidicks on Friday 23 February 13:59
Cheers,
Tony
Tony427 said:
sidicks said:
Tony - you seem very confused about what lauda has actually said. Why are you trying to tell a pension expert about DB pensions, when he clearly knows more than you?
Just because you are intelligent with decent (other) qualifications, doesn’t mean that you know more than a pension expert who has been doing this for 15+ years.
PM sent by way of explanation. Just because you are intelligent with decent (other) qualifications, doesn’t mean that you know more than a pension expert who has been doing this for 15+ years.
Edited by sidicks on Friday 23 February 13:59
Cheers,
Tony
crankedup said:
MDMetal said:
Not sure why people are waffling on about education, universities are businesses pure and simple, education stops at 16/18 anything else is paying a business for a piece of paper. Sooner people stop pretending different the better we'll be. Uni really should go back to being an education but I can't see that genie going back in the bottle now it's out.
Couldn’t disagree more That is a recipe for only the wealthy to benefit leaving behind those without the cash to fund their education, hence the Government loans. The U.K. would waste untapped talent which we cannot afford. crankedup said:
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
Do you think that couldn’t very easily be changed. My lads partners brother teaches English in China, they are, as a Nation, very ambitious to attract English teachers.
Not difficult to see how this can be expanded and no doubt will be.
What are his DB pension arrangements?Not difficult to see how this can be expanded and no doubt will be.
crankedup said:
I favour a more even playing field, I have long argued the situation we have in the U.K. of the wage stagnation on the factory floor, the abuse of self enrichment at the top in an ever increasing two division Society which is widening in terms of wealth. I do not use the term huge pensions in connection with the academics, we need to redfifine values within e Country.
Perhaps the tax implications need to be reconsidered for workers and Corporations.
Unless you know the details of his circumstances the comparison is pointless.Perhaps the tax implications need to be reconsidered for workers and Corporations.
- maybe he likes Chinese food?
- maybe he likes the Chinese?
- maybe he would rather be paid 1k more on his basic and no pension?
- maybe he's not qualified to the same job here? Is he TEFL?
You are not about to see 90% of university lecturers moving to Beijing...
Valuing something and being able to afford it are two different things.
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
Then you take actions required to make it so, reducing the reward to staff which are the backbone of this business should be the last area to attack. As always the highly paid at the top escape the wrath of the business accountants.
Are the ‘highly paid at the top’ not subject to the same DB scheme changes?MDMetal said:
crankedup said:
MDMetal said:
Not sure why people are waffling on about education, universities are businesses pure and simple, education stops at 16/18 anything else is paying a business for a piece of paper. Sooner people stop pretending different the better we'll be. Uni really should go back to being an education but I can't see that genie going back in the bottle now it's out.
Couldn’t disagree more That is a recipe for only the wealthy to benefit leaving behind those without the cash to fund their education, hence the Government loans. The U.K. would waste untapped talent which we cannot afford. Hyper expensive education that causes students to go into debt they cant repay (A.K.A the American system) limits the options of students who dont come from a rich family, it's basically enforcing a class system through education. OTOH we don't want to go too far the other way and end up devaluing higher education, basically ending up with a system best described by my favourite Fidel Castro quote "one of the best things about Communism is that even the prostitutes have a degree".
I think the UK needs to do two things.
1. Implement a public loan system for UK citizens that is zero interest (pegged to inflation). The HMRC can automatically start taking repayments after they reach a certain salary (this is like the HECS/HELP scheme from Australia), such a system is almost self sufficient.
2. Introduce a national series of trade schools/collages that teach shorter, more basic, practical courses like electrical/mechanical/building trades, data entry, clerical, hairdressing... I don't want to say it but I'll say it... Jobs you don't go to university for.
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
I agree with the proposal that a ring fenced taxation element should be used for the NHS and I would be in favour of a similar policy proposal that would work in the education establishment.
Imagine you raise an extra billion in tax & specifically ringfence it for NHS. Now imagine that another billion of non-ringfenced funding is pulled from the NHS and pissed up the nearest wall on whatever self-serving scheme is around at the time.Ringfencing achieves nothing other than helping emotive claims for more money.
Ring fencing taxation for the purpose of the NHS is gathering momentum apparently and I would certainly cautiously welcome further investigation into the principles of the idea.
crankedup said:
Rovinghawk said:
crankedup said:
. What really gets my goat is those at the top gorging on money whilst the workers have some crumbs tossed at them. Exaggerated for effect of course.
And yet you seem to be in favour of huge pensions for some, subsidised by many who will themselves be in straitened circumstances.MDMetal said:
crankedup said:
MDMetal said:
Not sure why people are waffling on about education, universities are businesses pure and simple, education stops at 16/18 anything else is paying a business for a piece of paper. Sooner people stop pretending different the better we'll be. Uni really should go back to being an education but I can't see that genie going back in the bottle now it's out.
Couldn’t disagree more That is a recipe for only the wealthy to benefit leaving behind those without the cash to fund their education, hence the Government loans. The U.K. would waste untapped talent which we cannot afford. Uni’s should be funded for those courses identified as ‘worthy’ by the Government. All other courses they wish to run should be funded by the private pocket imo.
I agree with most of your post and feel that you have either misinterpreted or perhaps I could have been clearer in my posts.
crankedup said:
I wouldn’t class the NHS or Education requirements emotive situations. They both require further major investing if we wish for these establishments to provide satisfactory services in the future. Funding for staff levels as well as infrastructure. I would suggest that your own issues seem to be emotive reading the posts,
Ring fencing taxation for the purpose of the NHS is gathering momentum apparently and I would certainly cautiously welcome further investigation into the principles of the idea.
Spending is not the same thing as investment.Ring fencing taxation for the purpose of the NHS is gathering momentum apparently and I would certainly cautiously welcome further investigation into the principles of the idea.
crankedup said:
Depends upon the scheme that they are in, certainly carillion had 13 different schemes running. All in the black hole situation except the Directors scheme, which was in a very nice place financially, no surprise there. Clearly that pot was being well attended whilst the remaining 12 were left in serious problems.
What were the nature of the liabilities in each scheme - it is feasible that, due to a different investment policy (due to different liabilities) one scheme might outperform the others.E.g. if there was more risk taken in the Director’s scheme and equities performed strongly (as they had up until fairly recently). The other schemes might be much more closely matching assets and liabilities - to protect members from further downside - but not benefitting in bullish markets to the same extent.
Presumably some of the schemes would have been inherited from other businesses, so might have been in a poor state when they were taken over?
Murph7355 said:
crankedup said:
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
Do you think that couldn’t very easily be changed. My lads partners brother teaches English in China, they are, as a Nation, very ambitious to attract English teachers.
Not difficult to see how this can be expanded and no doubt will be.
What are his DB pension arrangements?Not difficult to see how this can be expanded and no doubt will be.
crankedup said:
I favour a more even playing field, I have long argued the situation we have in the U.K. of the wage stagnation on the factory floor, the abuse of self enrichment at the top in an ever increasing two division Society which is widening in terms of wealth. I do not use the term huge pensions in connection with the academics, we need to redfifine values within e Country.
Perhaps the tax implications need to be reconsidered for workers and Corporations.
Unless you know the details of his circumstances the comparison is pointless.Perhaps the tax implications need to be reconsidered for workers and Corporations.
- maybe he likes Chinese food?
- maybe he likes the Chinese?
- maybe he would rather be paid 1k more on his basic and no pension?
- maybe he's not qualified to the same job here? Is he TEFL?
You are not about to see 90% of university lecturers moving to Beijing...
Valuing something and being able to afford it are two different things.
As for the Chinese example. it’s only an example to bolster my earlier posts. Academics know that it’s a big World.
Yes I intimated that he is earning a decent salary and doesn’t go to China for tea tasting. Also, if you read my posts on the matter, you will note that I also mentioned that I did not know about his pension arrangements.
Chinese food, you ask if he likes it, I can enlighten you, he loves Chinese food and really enjoys the life style on offer over there.
crankedup said:
It’s a case of identifying priorities, just like in most things in life, not simply shrugging the shoulders saying we can’t afford it. Do we value education. I certainly do and this may come as no surprise to you, imo we should fully fund it alongside the NHS.
Where “fully fund” means ignore demographics and economics and retain massive pensions for employees subsidised by the taxpayer, at the expense of actually delivering services?crankedup said:
As for the Chinese example. it’s only an example to bolster my earlier posts. Academics know that it’s a big World.
Yes I intimated that he is earning a decent salary and doesn’t go to China for tea tasting. Also, if you read my posts on the matter, you will note that I also mentioned that I did not know about his pension arrangements.
Chinese food, you ask if he likes it, I can enlighten you, he loves Chinese food and really enjoys the life style on offer over there.
In summary, “if we don’t provide DB pensions to well-paid academics then (on the basis of 1 friend) they might go to China, where they may or may not be paid well and where they don’t have a DB pension either.”Yes I intimated that he is earning a decent salary and doesn’t go to China for tea tasting. Also, if you read my posts on the matter, you will note that I also mentioned that I did not know about his pension arrangements.
Chinese food, you ask if he likes it, I can enlighten you, he loves Chinese food and really enjoys the life style on offer over there.
Edited by sidicks on Friday 23 February 16:13
sidicks said:
crankedup said:
Depends upon the scheme that they are in, certainly carillion had 13 different schemes running. All in the black hole situation except the Directors scheme, which was in a very nice place financially, no surprise there. Clearly that pot was being well attended whilst the remaining 12 were left in serious problems.
What were the nature of the liabilities in each scheme - it is feasible that, due to a different investment policy (due to different liabilities) one scheme might outperform the others.E.g. if there was more risk taken in the Director’s scheme and equities performed strongly (as they had up until fairly recently). The other schemes might be much more closely matching assets and liabilities - to protect members from further downside - but not benefitting in bullish markets to the same extent.
Presumably some of the schemes would have been inherited from other businesses, so might have been in a poor state when they were taken over?
sidicks said:
Where “fully fund” means ignore demographics and economics and retain massive pensions for employees subsidised by the taxpayer, at the expense of actually delivering services?
Jeez, you've been on about public sector pensions for 2 days solid now.Do yourself a favour - give yourself a break; go out for a bit, do something (anything) else - just step away from your keyboard.
Or the men in white coats (with massive taxpayer funded public sector pensions) will come for you.
I doubt they'll listen to you either.
Red 4 said:
Jeez, you've been on about public sector pensions for 2 days solid now.
Do yourself a favour - give yourself a break; go out for a bit, do something (anything) else - just step away from your keyboard.
Or the men in white coats (with massive taxpayer funded public sector pensions) will come for you.
I doubt they'll listen to you either.
Oh look, a stalker!!Do yourself a favour - give yourself a break; go out for a bit, do something (anything) else - just step away from your keyboard.
Or the men in white coats (with massive taxpayer funded public sector pensions) will come for you.
I doubt they'll listen to you either.
This a thread about public sector pensions, if you don’t have anything to add then suggest you
‘go away’.
Edited by sidicks on Friday 23 February 16:35
crankedup said:
Would expect that full details will become available in due course, it doesn’t look good though on the face of matters. 12 workers pensions in black holes and the one shining example just happens to be the Directors pension pot. Meanwhile the stench of self preservation and greed above all else pervades imo.
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