Organ Transplant Bill

[amusingduck]

PurpleMoonlight said:

That's not the issue.

The state should not have the right to take your organs unless you object. That is an unacceptable default.

Are they still your organs?

If you're dead, you no longer exist. All that remains is the container which enabled you to exist.

[anonymous-user]

So would those opting out accept a transplant if they need one?

[Cold]

yesterday fblm said:

Opting out should also mean you go right to the bottom of the transplant list should you ever be on one!

fblm said:

So would those opting out accept a transplant if they need one?

You're repeating yourself.

[Oakey]

amusingduck said:

Are they still your organs?

If you're dead, you no longer exist. All that remains is the container which enabled you to exist.

What's your definition of dead?

[4x4Tyke]

Cold said:

yesterday fblm said:

Opting out should also mean you go right to the bottom of the transplant list should you ever be on one!

fblm said:

So would those opting out accept a transplant if they need one?

You're repeating yourself.

It is a question that bears repeating since it has gone unanswered.

[Jonesy23]

If you're already dead when they decide they want your bits you aren't an effective donor for the major parts.

The most effective organ donors start the process alive even if the cutting (usually) waits for them to be technically dead.

You might not be in a position to comment while the decision is made but you won't be a corpse.

Ps. Limiting organs to registered donors is a deeply flawed idea. Why? Because the people needing transplants more often than not won't be a healthy source (unless you're in a country that'll take anything from anyone, like smokers and cancer patients) plus there's still the option of a deathbed conversion if you find yourself in need.

Edited by Jonesy23 on Saturday 24th February 12:22

[grumbledoak]

Jonesy23 said:

You might not be in a position to comment while the decision is made but you won't be a corpse.

Yes. You are not dead when they take your organs - that's too late.

Now consider how much they value your opinion against their ranking in international performance tables, and how much opportunity you will have to complain.

[Cold]

4x4Tyke said:

It is a question that bears repeating since it has gone unanswered.

It's been answered, but perhaps not with the reply that was wanted by those who posed it.

[PurpleMoonlight]

amusingduck said:

Are they still your organs?

If you're dead, you no longer exist. All that remains is the container which enabled you to exist.

They are mine a damn sight more than they are the States.

[djc206]

PurpleMoonlight said:

They are mine a damn sight more than they are the States.

Then opt out.

It boggles the mind that anyone would want to keep their organs and have them go up in smoke or turned into worm food rather than save/improve the lives of other humans. We’re a strange species sometimes.

[amusingduck]

Oakey said:

amusingduck said:

Are they still your organs?

If you're dead, you no longer exist. All that remains is the container which enabled you to exist.

What's your definition of dead?

I suppose it depends, really.

For me personally, once your brain is dead, you are dead. If I ever end up on life support, but my brain is dead, they're free to have whatever they want, keep my body going as long as it suit them.

The potential stumbling block is, how easy is it to be certain that somebody is braindead? (NP&E excepted )

[Oakey]

amusingduck said:

I suppose it depends, really.

For me personally, once your brain is dead, you are dead. If I ever end up on life support, but my brain is dead, they're free to have whatever they want, keep my body going as long as it suit them.

The potential stumbling block is, how easy is it to be certain that somebody is braindead? (NP&E excepted )

Like those examples earlier in the thread were 'dead'? Until it turned out they weren't. As Jonesy has said, that's where the controversy lies.

[Long Drax]

Murph7355 said:

Long Drax said:

I donate blood on a voluntary basis 3-4 times a year and have done so for a number of years. Do you?

Do you do lots of great work for charity, but don't like to talk about it too?

(Yes, BTW)

My question wasn't for you. And no, I don't do any work at all for charity, great or otherwise.

Nice to know you are fellow blood donor, though. Keep it up, mate.

[Murph7355]

Long Drax said:

...
Nice to know you are fellow blood donor, though. Keep it up, mate.

I intend to. Although they don't make it easy.

Last appointment was cancelled by them, then they called to arrange an appointment for the same day until I noted I thought that date had been cancelled....

I also often get the next appointment being 6mths away. I try and make alternative centres when I can, but that's not always possible.

With the centre I go to always being well attended (judging by when I can get appointments), you'd think they'd put more on.

[wst]

grumbledoak said:

Yes. You are not dead when they take your organs - that's too late.

Now consider how much they value your opinion against their ranking in international performance tables, and how much opportunity you will have to complain.

There are many people who die before their organs stop functioning.

[Randy Winkman]

Long Drax said:

Randy Winkman said:

grumbledoak said:

I've opted out. On principle. They are mine to give, not theirs to annex to help meet their performance targets.

Now try getting that code off your driving licence...

Would you like organs to be available if you or your loved ones are unfortunate enough to need them?

I donate blood on a voluntary basis 3-4 times a year and have done so for a number of years. Do you?

Yes. 3 times a year for 4 years after the marvellous emergency services and NHS did such a great job of looking after me for a month following a road accident. I should have started earlier (I'm not young).

By the way, I work on the basis that if I'm thinking of doing something to make a point, I'll almost certainly be the only person to care what my point is. So I don't do it.

[anonymous-user]

Cold said:

yesterday fblm said:

Opting out should also mean you go right to the bottom of the transplant list should you ever be on one!

fblm said:

So would those opting out accept a transplant if they need one?

You're repeating yourself.

Not at all. The first quote is my opinion, the second is a question for those who are opting out; which I note no one has answered. I'm sorry if it's confusing but until brain transplants are a thing, feel free to make more asinine observations.

[Long Drax]

Randy Winkman said:

Long Drax said:

Randy Winkman said:

grumbledoak said:

I've opted out. On principle. They are mine to give, not theirs to annex to help meet their performance targets.

Now try getting that code off your driving licence...

Would you like organs to be available if you or your loved ones are unfortunate enough to need them?

I donate blood on a voluntary basis 3-4 times a year and have done so for a number of years. Do you?

Yes. 3 times a year for 4 years after the marvellous emergency services and NHS did such a great job of looking after me for a month following a road accident. I should have started earlier (I'm not young).

By the way, I work on the basis that if I'm thinking of doing something to make a point, I'll almost certainly be the only person to care what my point is. So I don't do it.

The point of my question to you was to find out whether you also believed that non blood donors should not be entitled to blood donations. Having read your post above, clearly this is not the case.

How do you square this with your loaded question to Grumbledoak?

[Randy Winkman]

Long Drax said:

Randy Winkman said:

Long Drax said:

Randy Winkman said:

grumbledoak said:

I've opted out. On principle. They are mine to give, not theirs to annex to help meet their performance targets.

Now try getting that code off your driving licence...

Would you like organs to be available if you or your loved ones are unfortunate enough to need them?

I donate blood on a voluntary basis 3-4 times a year and have done so for a number of years. Do you?

Yes. 3 times a year for 4 years after the marvellous emergency services and NHS did such a great job of looking after me for a month following a road accident. I should have started earlier (I'm not young).

By the way, I work on the basis that if I'm thinking of doing something to make a point, I'll almost certainly be the only person to care what my point is. So I don't do it.

The point of my question to you was to find out whether you also believed that non blood donors should not be entitled to blood donations. Having read your post above, clearly this is not the case.

How do you square this with your loaded question to Grumbledoak?

Blood donning might not be super difficult but it's a million times harder than opting in or out of organ donation. So the 2 are not comparable.

[Long Drax]

Hi R W, I am sorry, I'm still not sure what your opinion is. Do you believe people who have chosen not to donate blood should be allowed to receive blood from those who have chosen to donate?