M1 Lorry crash
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...
Two lorry drivers have been jailed over a crash on the M1 in Buckinghamshire that killed eight people last year.
Ryszard Masierak, 31, was jailed for 14 years after being found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
David Wagstaff, 54, was sentenced to 40 months in prison after pleading guilty to causing death by careless driving.
Two lorry drivers have been jailed over a crash on the M1 in Buckinghamshire that killed eight people last year.
Ryszard Masierak, 31, was jailed for 14 years after being found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
David Wagstaff, 54, was sentenced to 40 months in prison after pleading guilty to causing death by careless driving.
funkyrobot said:
Wagstaff didn't get long enough in my opinion.
You have to contrast the attitudes of the two drivers though. There is always leniency for co-operation and admission of responsibility.Without the idiot randomly parking a truck, needlessly, in a live lane, none of this might ever have happened.
Digga said:
funkyrobot said:
Wagstaff didn't get long enough in my opinion.
You have to contrast the attitudes of the two drivers though. There is always leniency for co-operation and admission of responsibility.Without the idiot randomly parking a truck, needlessly, in a live lane, none of this might ever have happened.
I actually think his was perhaps too harsh for the following reasons, though I will be fine if you argue against them
1. Time of accident and conditions. Even the minibus driver had got confused with the lorry in front stopping in the inside lane rather than the hard shoulder and was waiting to pull out past it.
2. He was not paying attention and doing something that is done by countless people including all people on here, but was not illegal.
3. The penalty is due to number of deaths rather than punishing the actual amount of negligence.
4. I'd rather have people in jail who deliberately set out to cause harm than people who did not.
As I said, more than happy for people to argue other the other side, I just feel uncomfortable with this case. The other lorry driver is the cause and was flouting the law as well, his penalty was about right in my view.
This case will be interesting to compare to the Shoreham air disaster case when than reaches it conclusion I guess.
1. Time of accident and conditions. Even the minibus driver had got confused with the lorry in front stopping in the inside lane rather than the hard shoulder and was waiting to pull out past it.
2. He was not paying attention and doing something that is done by countless people including all people on here, but was not illegal.
3. The penalty is due to number of deaths rather than punishing the actual amount of negligence.
4. I'd rather have people in jail who deliberately set out to cause harm than people who did not.
As I said, more than happy for people to argue other the other side, I just feel uncomfortable with this case. The other lorry driver is the cause and was flouting the law as well, his penalty was about right in my view.
This case will be interesting to compare to the Shoreham air disaster case when than reaches it conclusion I guess.
Gandahar said:
I actually think his was perhaps too harsh for the following reasons, though I will be fine if you argue against them
1. Time of accident and conditions. Even the minibus driver had got confused with the lorry in front stopping in the inside lane rather than the hard shoulder and was waiting to pull out past it.
2. He was not paying attention and doing something that is done by countless people including all people on here, but was not illegal.
3. The penalty is due to number of deaths rather than punishing the actual amount of negligence.
4. I'd rather have people in jail who deliberately set out to cause harm than people who did not.
As I said, more than happy for people to argue other the other side, I just feel uncomfortable with this case. The other lorry driver is the cause and was flouting the law as well, his penalty was about right in my view.
This case will be interesting to compare to the Shoreham air disaster case when than reaches it conclusion I guess.
The investigation showed that Wagstaff made no attempt to brake or swerve around the obstacle. Not paying attention even at the lowest level.1. Time of accident and conditions. Even the minibus driver had got confused with the lorry in front stopping in the inside lane rather than the hard shoulder and was waiting to pull out past it.
2. He was not paying attention and doing something that is done by countless people including all people on here, but was not illegal.
3. The penalty is due to number of deaths rather than punishing the actual amount of negligence.
4. I'd rather have people in jail who deliberately set out to cause harm than people who did not.
As I said, more than happy for people to argue other the other side, I just feel uncomfortable with this case. The other lorry driver is the cause and was flouting the law as well, his penalty was about right in my view.
This case will be interesting to compare to the Shoreham air disaster case when than reaches it conclusion I guess.
Yet the video evidence shows the vehicles lit, hazard flashers going on the minibus. All the other traffic avoiding it were braking, indicating, changing lanes.
Yes he will have got discount for early guilty plea and the genuine remorse.
I don't think it was too harsh by any measure. At his age prison record and no licence he is largely screwed.
There are no winners in this case.
I deal with lorry drivers on a fairly regular basis and in the main they're good guys. They're all (or mostly) of a certain age, a bit over weight, a little lonely but pretty good at their jobs.
The driver that was stopped was drunk and should have not been driving at all, so there is some responsibilty from the people that allowed him to drive in the first place, what will happen to these people? But even he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone.
We are expecting a lot from our professional drivers and they are not, in my opinion, correctly compensated for this level of responsibility. Everything is the drivers reponsibilty and he or she can get fined, receive points or in this case get jailed for making a mistake all for a very average wage. This is the reason why when my medical expires on my Class 2 it won't get renewed and I'll not sit in the drivers seat of an HGV again. If the law wants airline pilot levels of responsibilty, the pay needs to reflect that.
I deal with lorry drivers on a fairly regular basis and in the main they're good guys. They're all (or mostly) of a certain age, a bit over weight, a little lonely but pretty good at their jobs.
The driver that was stopped was drunk and should have not been driving at all, so there is some responsibilty from the people that allowed him to drive in the first place, what will happen to these people? But even he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone.
We are expecting a lot from our professional drivers and they are not, in my opinion, correctly compensated for this level of responsibility. Everything is the drivers reponsibilty and he or she can get fined, receive points or in this case get jailed for making a mistake all for a very average wage. This is the reason why when my medical expires on my Class 2 it won't get renewed and I'll not sit in the drivers seat of an HGV again. If the law wants airline pilot levels of responsibilty, the pay needs to reflect that.
Willy Nilly said:
There are no winners in this case.
I deal with lorry drivers on a fairly regular basis and in the main they're good guys. They're all (or mostly) of a certain age, a bit over weight, a little lonely but pretty good at their jobs.
The driver that was stopped was drunk and should have not been driving at all, so there is some responsibilty from the people that allowed him to drive in the first place, what will happen to these people? But even he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone.
We are expecting a lot from our professional drivers and they are not, in my opinion, correctly compensated for this level of responsibility. Everything is the drivers reponsibilty and he or she can get fined, receive points or in this case get jailed for making a mistake all for a very average wage. This is the reason why when my medical expires on my Class 2 it won't get renewed and I'll not sit in the drivers seat of an HGV again. If the law wants airline pilot levels of responsibilty, the pay needs to reflect that.
Being sober and looking where you are driving while in charge of several tonnes of vehicle doesn’t strike me as particularly ‘airline pilot levels of responsibility’I deal with lorry drivers on a fairly regular basis and in the main they're good guys. They're all (or mostly) of a certain age, a bit over weight, a little lonely but pretty good at their jobs.
The driver that was stopped was drunk and should have not been driving at all, so there is some responsibilty from the people that allowed him to drive in the first place, what will happen to these people? But even he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone.
We are expecting a lot from our professional drivers and they are not, in my opinion, correctly compensated for this level of responsibility. Everything is the drivers reponsibilty and he or she can get fined, receive points or in this case get jailed for making a mistake all for a very average wage. This is the reason why when my medical expires on my Class 2 it won't get renewed and I'll not sit in the drivers seat of an HGV again. If the law wants airline pilot levels of responsibilty, the pay needs to reflect that.
Ridgemont said:
Willy Nilly said:
There are no winners in this case.
I deal with lorry drivers on a fairly regular basis and in the main they're good guys. They're all (or mostly) of a certain age, a bit over weight, a little lonely but pretty good at their jobs.
The driver that was stopped was drunk and should have not been driving at all, so there is some responsibilty from the people that allowed him to drive in the first place, what will happen to these people? But even he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone.
We are expecting a lot from our professional drivers and they are not, in my opinion, correctly compensated for this level of responsibility. Everything is the drivers reponsibilty and he or she can get fined, receive points or in this case get jailed for making a mistake all for a very average wage. This is the reason why when my medical expires on my Class 2 it won't get renewed and I'll not sit in the drivers seat of an HGV again. If the law wants airline pilot levels of responsibilty, the pay needs to reflect that.
Being sober and looking where you are driving while in charge of several tonnes of vehicle doesn’t strike me as particularly ‘airline pilot levels of responsibility’I deal with lorry drivers on a fairly regular basis and in the main they're good guys. They're all (or mostly) of a certain age, a bit over weight, a little lonely but pretty good at their jobs.
The driver that was stopped was drunk and should have not been driving at all, so there is some responsibilty from the people that allowed him to drive in the first place, what will happen to these people? But even he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone.
We are expecting a lot from our professional drivers and they are not, in my opinion, correctly compensated for this level of responsibility. Everything is the drivers reponsibilty and he or she can get fined, receive points or in this case get jailed for making a mistake all for a very average wage. This is the reason why when my medical expires on my Class 2 it won't get renewed and I'll not sit in the drivers seat of an HGV again. If the law wants airline pilot levels of responsibilty, the pay needs to reflect that.
Cliftonite said:
Citation needed.
Here’s some.....I use hands free, am not a pleb, and actually increase my road concentration due to the fact I’m having a conversation. It is the conversation that I “zone out” from, not the driving, as anyone who speaks to me when I’m driving will attest to...including passengers.If people are too stupid to do it that way round then they shouldn’t be driving. And frankly I’d rather they didn’t.
I think some people see driving a vehicle as being similar to operating a vacuum cleaner or washing machine or something. If we could somehow get these types off the road, we’d all be a lot safer AND traffic would be greatly reduced too.
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