Tommy Robinson attacked at McDonald’s
Discussion
rscott said:
Anyone know if it's really delayed or Ezra is just making things up again? I've seen no evidence to suggest the first date they claimed was genuine.
He lied about the appeal being delayed by the state (proven by the fact TR's team only submitted some of their case after the original claimed date).
Yep, lots of people saying all sorts, any place to see what is actually happening inn the courts ?He lied about the appeal being delayed by the state (proven by the fact TR's team only submitted some of their case after the original claimed date).
rscott said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
Any one know why TR's case is delayed again ?
Anyone know if it's really delayed or Ezra is just making things up again? I've seen no evidence to suggest the first date they claimed was genuine.He lied about the appeal being delayed by the state (proven by the fact TR's team only submitted some of their case after the original claimed date).
In fairness, it appears both sides have it's fair share of truth stretchers.
Now I wouldn't usually watch anything with K Hopkins in. She's a vile individual who has controversial opinions to a deadline but it was that she appears to be having a (kind of) balanced conversation with one of those pesky Muslim fellows that peaked my interest. What I found more frustrating though, were the comments and the refusal to accept (or even hear in many cases) the Muslim guys words. When questioned about the way some Western girls dress, he clearly says he feels it's inappropriate and invites people to look. Immediately he's quoted as saying it invites rape! Hopkins asks ''why don't we hear more Muslim men decry the offences of grooming gangs?''. The answer (to some extent lays in the comment section. There is a vocal majority of anti Muslim folk who simply will not accept that it isn't all Muslims that are to blame. It's the same with terrorist attacks, despite the large percentage of Muslims who are actually victims of these attacks! I'm not saying that moderate, free thinking Muslim don't need to find their voice and speak out, but let's face it, they have an uphill struggle ahead.
e30m3Mark said:
You mean TR and his team tell lies?
In fairness, it appears both sides have it's fair share of truth stretchers.
Now I wouldn't usually watch anything with K Hopkins in. She's a vile individual who has controversial opinions to a deadline but it was that she appears to be having a (kind of) balanced conversation with one of those pesky Muslim fellows that peaked my interest. What I found more frustrating though, were the comments and the refusal to accept (or even hear in many cases) the Muslim guys words. When questioned about the way some Western girls dress, he clearly says he feels it's inappropriate and invites people to look. Immediately he's quoted as saying it invites rape! Hopkins asks ''why don't we hear more Muslim men decry the offences of grooming gangs?''. The answer (to some extent lays in the comment section. There is a vocal majority of anti Muslim folk who simply will not accept that it isn't all Muslims that are to blame. It's the same with terrorist attacks, despite the large percentage of Muslims who are actually victims of these attacks! I'm not saying that moderate, free thinking Muslim don't need to find their voice and speak out, but let's face it, they have an uphill struggle ahead.
Katie is a national treasure.In fairness, it appears both sides have it's fair share of truth stretchers.
Now I wouldn't usually watch anything with K Hopkins in. She's a vile individual who has controversial opinions to a deadline but it was that she appears to be having a (kind of) balanced conversation with one of those pesky Muslim fellows that peaked my interest. What I found more frustrating though, were the comments and the refusal to accept (or even hear in many cases) the Muslim guys words. When questioned about the way some Western girls dress, he clearly says he feels it's inappropriate and invites people to look. Immediately he's quoted as saying it invites rape! Hopkins asks ''why don't we hear more Muslim men decry the offences of grooming gangs?''. The answer (to some extent lays in the comment section. There is a vocal majority of anti Muslim folk who simply will not accept that it isn't all Muslims that are to blame. It's the same with terrorist attacks, despite the large percentage of Muslims who are actually victims of these attacks! I'm not saying that moderate, free thinking Muslim don't need to find their voice and speak out, but let's face it, they have an uphill struggle ahead.
As for the rest of the difficult to read mental gymnastics;
Poor old islam and muslims are often spun as the victim. You know, the imaginary backlash that never happens and never, ever, looking at why their religion, for so many, can and is so readily used like a terrorists instruction manual. I think it is up there with Malaria and Communism as one of the things that has caused the most misery and death to mankind. That said Communism has largely fallen and we continue to research a cure for Malaria.
It has been said and qualified many times in this thread that it is not "all muslims" who are resonsible for the terror. And it has also been said and qualified many times that muslims are by far the largest victim group of islam.
It cannot be argued that free thinking muslims do indeed have an uphill struggle. Free thinking for one is frowned upon as any change is not possible to the so called perfect word of god and his messenger. Start spouting stuff about change too loudly and they will quickly find themselves in very big trouble. A bit of free thinking self reflection and then deciding to leave is also tricky, especially when there is a death sentence attached to that.
Any free thinking person would question why they would want to have anything to do with, or support and defend, any organisation that exists almost exclusively by the fear and intimidation of those indoctrinated to follow it. And lets not forget those who are also indoctrinated to denfend it by politically correct dogma, a dogma that really should not pitch itself as being tolerant yet at the same time tolerating the intolerant.
And that is why there are so few who speak against it, they are trapped by their respecive dogmas. The escape velocity must be very high and for some impossible as they have passed the event horizon and the point of no return.
Remember Tommy lodged a complaint that he didn't have a TV in prison? Somehow he managed to watch Love Island while locked up - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tommy-robinson-...
rscott said:
Remember Tommy lodged a complaint that he didn't have a TV in prison? Somehow he managed to watch Love Island while locked up - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/tommy-robinson-...
The complaint was regarding when he was in solitary confinement without a tv.That equated to almost 3 weeks with a tv prior to that.
colin_p said:
Katie is a national treasure.
As for the rest of the difficult to read mental gymnastics;
Poor old islam and muslims are often spun as the victim. You know, the imaginary backlash that never happens and never, ever, looking at why their religion, for so many, can and is so readily used like a terrorists instruction manual. I think it is up there with Malaria and Communism as one of the things that has caused the most misery and death to mankind. That said Communism has largely fallen and we continue to research a cure for Malaria.
It has been said and qualified many times in this thread that it is not "all muslims" who are resonsible for the terror. And it has also been said and qualified many times that muslims are by far the largest victim group of islam.
It cannot be argued that free thinking muslims do indeed have an uphill struggle. Free thinking for one is frowned upon as any change is not possible to the so called perfect word of god and his messenger. Start spouting stuff about change too loudly and they will quickly find themselves in very big trouble. A bit of free thinking self reflection and then deciding to leave is also tricky, especially when there is a death sentence attached to that.
Any free thinking person would question why they would want to have anything to do with, or support and defend, any organisation that exists almost exclusively by the fear and intimidation of those indoctrinated to follow it. And lets not forget those who are also indoctrinated to denfend it by politically correct dogma, a dogma that really should not pitch itself as being tolerant yet at the same time tolerating the intolerant.
And that is why there are so few who speak against it, they are trapped by their respecive dogmas. The escape velocity must be very high and for some impossible as they have passed the event horizon and the point of no return.
If by 'national treasure' you mean D list celebrity who'll say anything to keep her 'career' (as a so called journalist) going?, then yes that's most certainly what she is.As for the rest of the difficult to read mental gymnastics;
Poor old islam and muslims are often spun as the victim. You know, the imaginary backlash that never happens and never, ever, looking at why their religion, for so many, can and is so readily used like a terrorists instruction manual. I think it is up there with Malaria and Communism as one of the things that has caused the most misery and death to mankind. That said Communism has largely fallen and we continue to research a cure for Malaria.
It has been said and qualified many times in this thread that it is not "all muslims" who are resonsible for the terror. And it has also been said and qualified many times that muslims are by far the largest victim group of islam.
It cannot be argued that free thinking muslims do indeed have an uphill struggle. Free thinking for one is frowned upon as any change is not possible to the so called perfect word of god and his messenger. Start spouting stuff about change too loudly and they will quickly find themselves in very big trouble. A bit of free thinking self reflection and then deciding to leave is also tricky, especially when there is a death sentence attached to that.
Any free thinking person would question why they would want to have anything to do with, or support and defend, any organisation that exists almost exclusively by the fear and intimidation of those indoctrinated to follow it. And lets not forget those who are also indoctrinated to denfend it by politically correct dogma, a dogma that really should not pitch itself as being tolerant yet at the same time tolerating the intolerant.
And that is why there are so few who speak against it, they are trapped by their respecive dogmas. The escape velocity must be very high and for some impossible as they have passed the event horizon and the point of no return.
Maybe 'free thinking' wasn't quite the right phrase and moderate, although equally clumsy, is more accurate? It's not about portraying Muslims / Islam as being victims, but simply accepting that any individuals trying to retain their faith whist meeting the expectations of a Western society will struggle to appease both sides. As you say, any 'moderate' (again, for want of a better phrase) face potential recriminations from more fundamental sections of their faith, as well as the kind of vitriol and hate TR and his followers espouse. As I say, it's not about labelling anyone a victim but about accepting that there needs to be mature, inclusive discussion where all sides contribute towards finding a solution. Constant stirring of the hate pot will bring nothing that we haven't seen before and there needs to be change from both sides and their respective dogmas if we are to embrace change. Unfortunately, there are influences on both sides, for who that is the last thing that they want.
e30m3Mark said:
If by 'national treasure' you mean D list celebrity who'll say anything to keep her 'career' (as a so called journalist) going?, then yes that's most certainly what she is.
Maybe 'free thinking' wasn't quite the right phrase and moderate, although equally clumsy, is more accurate? It's not about portraying Muslims / Islam as being victims, but simply accepting that any individuals trying to retain their faith whist meeting the expectations of a Western society will struggle to appease both sides. As you say, any 'moderate' (again, for want of a better phrase) face potential recriminations from more fundamental sections of their faith, as well as the kind of vitriol and hate TR and his followers espouse. As I say, it's not about labelling anyone a victim but about accepting that there needs to be mature, inclusive discussion where all sides contribute towards finding a solution. Constant stirring of the hate pot will bring nothing that we haven't seen before and there needs to be change from both sides and their respective dogmas if we are to embrace change. Unfortunately, there are influences on both sides, for who that is the last thing that they want.
Not realising you are a victim is quite common when suffering from Stokholm syndrome, so I believe.Maybe 'free thinking' wasn't quite the right phrase and moderate, although equally clumsy, is more accurate? It's not about portraying Muslims / Islam as being victims, but simply accepting that any individuals trying to retain their faith whist meeting the expectations of a Western society will struggle to appease both sides. As you say, any 'moderate' (again, for want of a better phrase) face potential recriminations from more fundamental sections of their faith, as well as the kind of vitriol and hate TR and his followers espouse. As I say, it's not about labelling anyone a victim but about accepting that there needs to be mature, inclusive discussion where all sides contribute towards finding a solution. Constant stirring of the hate pot will bring nothing that we haven't seen before and there needs to be change from both sides and their respective dogmas if we are to embrace change. Unfortunately, there are influences on both sides, for who that is the last thing that they want.
As for all sides contributing to finding a solution, a good start would first be admitting there is a problem and then defining it.
colin_p said:
e30m3Mark said:
If by 'national treasure' you mean D list celebrity who'll say anything to keep her 'career' (as a so called journalist) going?, then yes that's most certainly what she is.
Maybe 'free thinking' wasn't quite the right phrase and moderate, although equally clumsy, is more accurate? It's not about portraying Muslims / Islam as being victims, but simply accepting that any individuals trying to retain their faith whist meeting the expectations of a Western society will struggle to appease both sides. As you say, any 'moderate' (again, for want of a better phrase) face potential recriminations from more fundamental sections of their faith, as well as the kind of vitriol and hate TR and his followers espouse. As I say, it's not about labelling anyone a victim but about accepting that there needs to be mature, inclusive discussion where all sides contribute towards finding a solution. Constant stirring of the hate pot will bring nothing that we haven't seen before and there needs to be change from both sides and their respective dogmas if we are to embrace change. Unfortunately, there are influences on both sides, for who that is the last thing that they want.
Not realising you are a victim is quite common when suffering from Stokholm syndrome, so I believe.Maybe 'free thinking' wasn't quite the right phrase and moderate, although equally clumsy, is more accurate? It's not about portraying Muslims / Islam as being victims, but simply accepting that any individuals trying to retain their faith whist meeting the expectations of a Western society will struggle to appease both sides. As you say, any 'moderate' (again, for want of a better phrase) face potential recriminations from more fundamental sections of their faith, as well as the kind of vitriol and hate TR and his followers espouse. As I say, it's not about labelling anyone a victim but about accepting that there needs to be mature, inclusive discussion where all sides contribute towards finding a solution. Constant stirring of the hate pot will bring nothing that we haven't seen before and there needs to be change from both sides and their respective dogmas if we are to embrace change. Unfortunately, there are influences on both sides, for who that is the last thing that they want.
As for all sides contributing to finding a solution, a good start would first be admitting there is a problem and then defining it.
I agree, for a problem to be addressed it firstly needs to be declared as such and therein lies the problem and the point I was (unsuccessfully) attempting to address. Are we really so surprised at a reluctance to declare such an issue, when doing so would make one a target of hate from both sides? Wouldn't you agree that the likelihood of Muslims being prepared to poke their head above the parapet so to speak, would be far greater if the likes of our 'national treasures' were more open to reasoned and mature discussion instead of ignoring the variations of Islam and simply labelling all Muslims vermin?
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