Tommy Robinson attacked at McDonald’s
Discussion
colin_p said:
La Liga said:
A religious group can be classed as a race in law, in both criminal and civil contexts.
Interesting. Previously I was a devout Jedi as stated on the 2001 census but latterly converted to the Chruch of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as stated on the 2011 census. I'm not alone.Would the law class my current religion as a religion or airborne food?
Zod said:
Is that really the best you can come up with?
No Muslim has stabbed a policeman while I've been in Stockholm.
I haven't seen evidence of this in Milan or Genoa.
Paris has had problems with North Africans in the suburbs since the 50s. It's nothing new, related to their poverty and the end of French colonialism. Islamic extremists have successfully exploited the ill-feeling amongst small numbers of these. I did once nearly get mugged in Paris, by a couple of white guys, whom I scared off through surprisingly effective drunken bravado.
You've never approached Calais clearly. The problem there is a refugee one, not a Muslim one and, in a car, you will not be bothered by it.
Not the best I could come up with. Just my own experience from trips around the continent.No Muslim has stabbed a policeman while I've been in Stockholm.
I haven't seen evidence of this in Milan or Genoa.
Paris has had problems with North Africans in the suburbs since the 50s. It's nothing new, related to their poverty and the end of French colonialism. Islamic extremists have successfully exploited the ill-feeling amongst small numbers of these. I did once nearly get mugged in Paris, by a couple of white guys, whom I scared off through surprisingly effective drunken bravado.
You've never approached Calais clearly. The problem there is a refugee one, not a Muslim one and, in a car, you will not be bothered by it.
Would love to know how I got my car from France to England if I didn't approach the place I left from. Guess all the signs warning about people and debris in the road were just an illusion.
I actually agree it's an immigration problem and it just happens many are Muslim as that's the area of the world that was given the green light to risk their lives and come here.
Sadly there is a significant enough minority leading to increasing numbers voting in reaction to it.
La Liga said:
f it's not easy to prosecute him (for whatever you are envisaging), then surely that supports that we have free speech, rather than he and his supporters claiming it's suppressed?
A religious group can be classed as a race in law, in both criminal and civil contexts.
The law is twisted by those in the position to abuse it's power.A religious group can be classed as a race in law, in both criminal and civil contexts.
I'll go by the definition of the word.
Robinson, like millions of others is concerned by the asinine willingness to accept an authoritarian culture by the uncontrolled proverbial bucket load in and naively assume they will assimilate.
Label it as a racist all you wish, it merely dumbs down the word.
Countdown said:
ReverendCounter said:
Countdown said:
smashing the little t
t's teeth through the back of his skull is probably going too far
Look at the violent fantasies pouring out from another deranged leftie.t's teeth through the back of his skull is probably going too far Boydie88 said:
IforB said:
Ah yes. Paris. I was based there and in Marseilles for a few years, so I know a bit about it. Well there has been a huge problem there since the 60's. Mainly driven by the French attitude towards those from their former colonies and how they treat not just muslims, but immigrants as a whole.
Your use of the phrase "them" is very, very telling BTW. It suggests you see Muslims as different to you, but you are also doing the usual thing of confusing a religion with the actions of people.
Now, in many of the cases you are stating, it has very rarely got to do with religion, but is more to do with the basics of people who have been forcibly removed from their homes, brutalised through war and poverty and then thrust into societies that have people like you in them, who treat these people like second or third class citizens and brand them all as criminals or a burden on society.
Whilst there are undoubtedly issues with mass migration and integration following events such as Syria or other areas affected by the Arab Spring and the oppression that has followed in places, it is not what you think it to be, it is a much more complex issue and one that people with vile views such as yourself make worse.
You consider the world to be full of easy answers and that all the problems have a racial contingent, when the reality is that the issues will only be solved by treating people with respect and actually managing the issues and solving them using some of the vast resources western nations have at their disposal.
In terms of some of your examples, well, I can say very little about the way you perceive them, other than to suggest that your inability to see past race or colour means you see them as racially/religiously motivated, whereas the reality is often somewhat different.
Let us take the preacher shouting in Cologne. Free speech is a difficult thing to comprehend I know. You may not like it, but there are many people spouting nonsense in a lot of places every day. Head down to Speaker's corner in London and see some of the white, Christian whack-jobs talking guff. Or just listen to a Yaxley-Lennon talk, it's the same thing.
A Policeman got stabbed. Awful, but one of the risks of being a Policeman these days. I was 100 yards away when the mortars were fired at No.10. Doesn't mean I hate Irishmen...
Feeling unsafe in Paris. So nothing happened to you, you saw nothing to get worried about, but someone told you there might be areas you might want to avoid. Imagine that in a major city. I mean, it's not like Brixton was a place for fun and games in the 80's was it? Or Detroit today or Mexico City or etc. etc. etc. Where you find lots of people, you can find trouble.
You can call these "facts" if you like, but I suggest you are nothing more than a bigot who has found some reasons to justify your own thoughts. You see race and religion as the problem, rather than understanding that problems in society are usually to do with things that are much more basic. Respect, financial stability, opportunity etc.
Them "used as the object of a verb or preposition to refer to two or more people or things previously mentioned or easily identified."Your use of the phrase "them" is very, very telling BTW. It suggests you see Muslims as different to you, but you are also doing the usual thing of confusing a religion with the actions of people.
Now, in many of the cases you are stating, it has very rarely got to do with religion, but is more to do with the basics of people who have been forcibly removed from their homes, brutalised through war and poverty and then thrust into societies that have people like you in them, who treat these people like second or third class citizens and brand them all as criminals or a burden on society.
Whilst there are undoubtedly issues with mass migration and integration following events such as Syria or other areas affected by the Arab Spring and the oppression that has followed in places, it is not what you think it to be, it is a much more complex issue and one that people with vile views such as yourself make worse.
You consider the world to be full of easy answers and that all the problems have a racial contingent, when the reality is that the issues will only be solved by treating people with respect and actually managing the issues and solving them using some of the vast resources western nations have at their disposal.
In terms of some of your examples, well, I can say very little about the way you perceive them, other than to suggest that your inability to see past race or colour means you see them as racially/religiously motivated, whereas the reality is often somewhat different.
Let us take the preacher shouting in Cologne. Free speech is a difficult thing to comprehend I know. You may not like it, but there are many people spouting nonsense in a lot of places every day. Head down to Speaker's corner in London and see some of the white, Christian whack-jobs talking guff. Or just listen to a Yaxley-Lennon talk, it's the same thing.
A Policeman got stabbed. Awful, but one of the risks of being a Policeman these days. I was 100 yards away when the mortars were fired at No.10. Doesn't mean I hate Irishmen...
Feeling unsafe in Paris. So nothing happened to you, you saw nothing to get worried about, but someone told you there might be areas you might want to avoid. Imagine that in a major city. I mean, it's not like Brixton was a place for fun and games in the 80's was it? Or Detroit today or Mexico City or etc. etc. etc. Where you find lots of people, you can find trouble.
You can call these "facts" if you like, but I suggest you are nothing more than a bigot who has found some reasons to justify your own thoughts. You see race and religion as the problem, rather than understanding that problems in society are usually to do with things that are much more basic. Respect, financial stability, opportunity etc.
Must have missed the point where that word now means they're different to me?
You seem to think all that are in Europe were forcibly removed from their homes? You don't think many were just jumping on the next dinghy across the med with the incentive to take that risk as the EU let them in?
All for them preaching in the streets, but it doesn't get people on their side.
I love different races and religion and thoroughly enjoy visiting and learning about the different cultures they produce around the world and will continue to do so except for one that seemingly refuses to modernise itself in line with the rest of humanity.
Ever met an Orthodox Christian? A Hassidic Jew? Which sort of Islam do you have an issue with? Wahhabism? Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Kalam etc and all of the variations of each.
Preachers aren't necessarily trying to "get people on their side." People stand up and spout nonsense for a variety of reasons, rabble rousing, education, political purposes, because they were bored, someone dared them etc. etc. So yet again, a pointless comment designed purely to make you feel better about yourself and your world view. Free speech means exactly that. Though of course there are limits in our society and hence we have laws about not inciting violence or racial hatred, which is very sensible in my book.
As for your comments about where and why people have come to Europe... Well, what would you do if you lived in a country that was dangerous, poor, offered no opportunity, no education and basically none of the things we take for granted. What would you do? Sit there and accept your lot or would you do what Tebbit said and "get on your bike?"
People have been migrating for economic reasons since the second humans existed. It is what we do and why we have colonised the entire habitable part of the planet.
However, most migrants would far prefer to do what we do and stay near loved ones and where you feel comfortable and part of society. We don;t move because we don;t have to. We are lucky by nothing more than the fact we were born here to not to need to move for a better life. Our lives are good and the people coming to Europe want the same thing. I fail to see what is wrong with it. Our society needs workers to do the jobs that drive our economic system. We need people with drive and energy to better themselves and the society they find themselves in. People who are willing to risk death and tear themselves away from everything they know have that drive.
So instead of shouting nonsense about how "they" are ruining the Western world, then think a bit more about it and understand that we are all the same and we all want the same things, those you rail against are just forced by geography to come here and try to get it, whereas you have had it handed to you on a plate.
I know who I have more respect for...
colin_p said:
Interesting. Previously I was a devout Jedi as stated on the 2001 census but latterly converted to the Chruch of the Flying Spaghetti Monster as stated on the 2011 census. I'm not alone.
Would the law class my current religion as a religion or airborne food?
I expect sincerity is relevant. Would the law class my current religion as a religion or airborne food?
Boydie88 said:
The law is twisted by those in the position to abuse it's power.
AKA a convenient explanation so you don't have to challenge your world view. "It's definitely the law that's wrong, it couldn't possibly be me."
Boydie88 said:
La Liga said:
f it's not easy to prosecute him (for whatever you are envisaging), then surely that supports that we have free speech, rather than he and his supporters claiming it's suppressed?
A religious group can be classed as a race in law, in both criminal and civil contexts.
The law is twisted by those in the position to abuse it's power.A religious group can be classed as a race in law, in both criminal and civil contexts.
I'll go by the definition of the word.
Robinson, like millions of others is concerned by the asinine willingness to accept an authoritarian culture by the uncontrolled proverbial bucket load in and naively assume they will assimilate.
Label it as a racist all you wish, it merely dumbs down the word.
So when a factual statement is put forward to counter your specious argument, you dissmiss it as "twisted by those in positions of power..." Priceless stuff.
Have you got enough tin-foil for the hat you wear or should we have a whip-round?
Countdown said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
What is Moderate ?
Do you know any muslims personally?ks (you are assuming I think) you are planning to fire off anyway ?Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Monday 15th October 15:26
The Dangerous Elk said:
Countdown said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
What is Moderate ?
Do you know any muslims personally?IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
Ever met an Orthodox Christian? A Hassidic Jew? Which sort of Islam do you have an issue with? Wahhabism? Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Kalam etc and all of the variations of each.
Preachers aren't necessarily trying to "get people on their side." People stand up and spout nonsense for a variety of reasons, rabble rousing, education, political purposes, because they were bored, someone dared them etc. etc. So yet again, a pointless comment designed purely to make you feel better about yourself and your world view. Free speech means exactly that. Though of course there are limits in our society and hence we have laws about not inciting violence or racial hatred, which is very sensible in my book.
As for your comments about where and why people have come to Europe... Well, what would you do if you lived in a country that was dangerous, poor, offered no opportunity, no education and basically none of the things we take for granted. What would you do? Sit there and accept your lot or would you do what Tebbit said and "get on your bike?"
People have been migrating for economic reasons since the second humans existed. It is what we do and why we have colonised the entire habitable part of the planet.
However, most migrants would far prefer to do what we do and stay near loved ones and where you feel comfortable and part of society. We don;t move because we don;t have to. We are lucky by nothing more than the fact we were born here to not to need to move for a better life. Our lives are good and the people coming to Europe want the same thing. I fail to see what is wrong with it. Our society needs workers to do the jobs that drive our economic system. We need people with drive and energy to better themselves and the society they find themselves in. People who are willing to risk death and tear themselves away from everything they know have that drive.
So instead of shouting nonsense about how "they" are ruining the Western world, then think a bit more about it and understand that we are all the same and we all want the same things, those you rail against are just forced by geography to come here and try to get it, whereas you have had it handed to you on a plate.
I know who I have more respect for...
I'm fully aware there are different branches with the primary split being sunni and shia. Whichever branch finds itself in charge still seem to lead to horrific laws and human rights abuse.Ever met an Orthodox Christian? A Hassidic Jew? Which sort of Islam do you have an issue with? Wahhabism? Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Kalam etc and all of the variations of each.
Preachers aren't necessarily trying to "get people on their side." People stand up and spout nonsense for a variety of reasons, rabble rousing, education, political purposes, because they were bored, someone dared them etc. etc. So yet again, a pointless comment designed purely to make you feel better about yourself and your world view. Free speech means exactly that. Though of course there are limits in our society and hence we have laws about not inciting violence or racial hatred, which is very sensible in my book.
As for your comments about where and why people have come to Europe... Well, what would you do if you lived in a country that was dangerous, poor, offered no opportunity, no education and basically none of the things we take for granted. What would you do? Sit there and accept your lot or would you do what Tebbit said and "get on your bike?"
People have been migrating for economic reasons since the second humans existed. It is what we do and why we have colonised the entire habitable part of the planet.
However, most migrants would far prefer to do what we do and stay near loved ones and where you feel comfortable and part of society. We don;t move because we don;t have to. We are lucky by nothing more than the fact we were born here to not to need to move for a better life. Our lives are good and the people coming to Europe want the same thing. I fail to see what is wrong with it. Our society needs workers to do the jobs that drive our economic system. We need people with drive and energy to better themselves and the society they find themselves in. People who are willing to risk death and tear themselves away from everything they know have that drive.
So instead of shouting nonsense about how "they" are ruining the Western world, then think a bit more about it and understand that we are all the same and we all want the same things, those you rail against are just forced by geography to come here and try to get it, whereas you have had it handed to you on a plate.
I know who I have more respect for...
Why the need to flee the supposed s
t hole countries for Europe if Muslim rule is so great?Why are lists of places where it's worst to be a woman, gay, or have a free choice of religion so dominated by Muslim led countries?
We don't all want the same things. Some want freedom for all, some want control. I'm anti control and wherever Islam is in control it seems incompatibly authoritarian with the 'Western' world.
amusingduck said:
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
That wouldn't really tally with reality now would it...
amusingduck said:
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
IforB said:
"An asinine willingness ti accept an authoritarian culture" dear lord, have a listen to yourself.
So when a factual statement is put forward to counter your specious argument, you dissmiss it as "twisted by those in positions of power..." Priceless stuff.
Have you got enough tin-foil for the hat you wear or should we have a whip-round?
So we're not seeing disproportionate rise in crimes in areas of large immigration? And all the people swinging to voting in an attempt to stop it are just making it up?So when a factual statement is put forward to counter your specious argument, you dissmiss it as "twisted by those in positions of power..." Priceless stuff.
Have you got enough tin-foil for the hat you wear or should we have a whip-round?
IforB said:
amusingduck said:
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
That wouldn't really tally with reality now would it...
Zod said:
amusingduck said:
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
IforB said:
So there's no debate among Islamic scholars or any difference between any of the different Islamic sects then?
That wouldn't really tally with reality now would it...
They kill thousands of each other for it defending 'their' version. Never mind what they think towards those that think it's all nonsense.That wouldn't really tally with reality now would it...
We're aware the terrorist victims of the West world pale in to insignificance compared to those of Muslim on Muslim violence, who do you think the winners of that ongoing conflict will turn their anger on next when only one branch remains?
Why does it breed such intolerance to the freedom of others?
amusingduck said:
Zod said:
amusingduck said:
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
Zod said:
amusingduck said:
Zod said:
amusingduck said:
IforB said:
Oh I love this. So, you consider Islam as a whole being unwilling to "modernise" itself? In what way and which form of Islam? there are more than a few and they stretch across the spectrum in terms of what is or isn't allowed, you know, exactly the same as other religions like Christianity or Judaism.
<snip>
Islam differs from other religions in that the Quran is a perfect text. It is the literal word of God, flawless. The word of God as dictated to the illiterate prophet Mohammed, who was somehow able to write these words down.<snip>
You can't reform the literal word of God.
Not sure why you're conflating the ideology Islam, the teachings of the Quran/Allah/Mohammad with the followers of said ideology.
I don't have a problem with Muslims, I have a problem with the ideology Islam, the teachings of the Quran/Allah/Mohammad.
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