Tommy Robinson attacked at McDonald’s
Discussion
colin_p said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
How much killing do you actually blame Islam for?
Nobody "actually" knows but it is estimated to be between 250,000,000 and 300,000,000. Using the lower figure that is about 180,000 a year over the 1,400 years it has existed. For context communism comes in a poor second at 80,000,000.Another opinion, this time with sources https://www.quora.com/Which-religion-is-responsibl...
colin_p said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
How much killing do you actually blame Islam for?
Nobody "actually" knows but it is estimated to be between 250,000,000 and 300,000,000. Using the lower figure that is about 180,000 a year over the 1,400 years it has existed. For context communism comes in a poor second at 80,000,000.I wouldn't expect anything like accuracy but would be interested to see how it was estimated. Presumably everyone who died in a war involving a mostly Muslim country?
Pretty much like Dindoit's link. Fun for a bored historian but pretty useless.
I did ask.
Maybe a better question, do you think it is Islam that is responsible for the killing or simply historical circumstances?
chunder27 said:
Watched a video today of the press reporter from the Times who dug up the Rotherham grooming story, briefly recounting how he came to be involved, fascinating 20 minutes.
Couldn't help thinking of TR while watching it, and couldn't help thinking what a few of my friends or others would say if the same script was read by this journo, and then by TR and what reaction it would get. Very different I imagine.
I do not particularly like TR, but he does have a platform and he does "sing" to an audience. He is occasionally misunderstood if I think of some of the stuff I have watched. Those who despise him will never give him the time of day so would never know, they just shout "idiot" and move onto feeding their fat middle class kid.
But he is also regularly too extreme, too confrontational and too let's say it silly! It is the nastier face of the right, remember when Griffin was that face, then to some extent Farage became a friendlier, less extreme face and how that worked?
TR will never be that, he is trying by stepping away a bit from far right groups, but he is too confrontational, too much of a thug to look at, too shouty. But I have no issue with some of the issues he does raise, in particular the grooming thing he was in contempt for. he was an idiot yes, but the more publicity the better.
If you knew the cover ups the social services, councils, even police were complicit in, in the Rotherham case you can understand why anyone with a platform like TR's would not give a damn about jail or the law, daft as it may seem.
What's he actually done to expose grooming gangs though? As far as I've seen, every group he mentions are already going through the legal process.Couldn't help thinking of TR while watching it, and couldn't help thinking what a few of my friends or others would say if the same script was read by this journo, and then by TR and what reaction it would get. Very different I imagine.
I do not particularly like TR, but he does have a platform and he does "sing" to an audience. He is occasionally misunderstood if I think of some of the stuff I have watched. Those who despise him will never give him the time of day so would never know, they just shout "idiot" and move onto feeding their fat middle class kid.
But he is also regularly too extreme, too confrontational and too let's say it silly! It is the nastier face of the right, remember when Griffin was that face, then to some extent Farage became a friendlier, less extreme face and how that worked?
TR will never be that, he is trying by stepping away a bit from far right groups, but he is too confrontational, too much of a thug to look at, too shouty. But I have no issue with some of the issues he does raise, in particular the grooming thing he was in contempt for. he was an idiot yes, but the more publicity the better.
If you knew the cover ups the social services, councils, even police were complicit in, in the Rotherham case you can understand why anyone with a platform like TR's would not give a damn about jail or the law, daft as it may seem.
As for the incident which led to his most recent arrest - all those charged had been named in the national media before the trial began.
There was then a temporary blackout imposed on some aspects of reporting until all 3 trials are over.
Once all the 29 have had verdicts delivered the media will be free to report what actually happened.
He was more concerned with generating more clicks on his social media channels than ensuring a fair trial with minimal risk of appeal.
Something he apparently had received media training about, but chose to ignore.
chunder27 said:
My point is merely this. I care not for his profile.
I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
He was arrested and convicted twice for contempt of court. His actions, be they deliberate or dumb, risked mistrials in cases involving dozens of grooming gang members.I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
Dindoit said:
chunder27 said:
My point is merely this. I care not for his profile.
I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
He was arrested and convicted twice for contempt of court. His actions, be they deliberate or dumb, risked mistrials in cases involving dozens of grooming gang members.I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
chunder27 said:
My point is merely this. I care not for his profile.
I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
If his reason for raising the issue of grooming gangs was genuine I don’t think it would a problem for anybody. But I don’t think his (or the EDL/DFLA) primary aim is to raise the profile of grooming gangs. If it was I’d expect them to look at the wider issue to CSE and other groups involved in this as well (and let’s be honest, this has been going on since time immemorial be it Scoutmasters, care home workers, RC priests, or TV celebs). There’s no reference by Tommy and his mates, even in passing, to ANY other group. I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
Then look at the fact that they march through areas with high Muslim populations chanting obscenities against muslims and Islam. Surely any reasonable person would ask “How TF does behaving like a bunch of
s on a NF march have anything to do with CSE?” And then look at the history of groups like EDL/ DFLA, “casuals’, North West Infidels ; these guys genuinely do not care about CSE. They simply enjoy violence. Usually between themselves, or targeted against ethnic minorities when they were recruited by the likes of National Front and their successors. All that’s changed is that they can now pretend that they’re doing all this for a legitimate cause.The Dangerous Elk said:
Dindoit said:
chunder27 said:
My point is merely this. I care not for his profile.
I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
He was arrested and convicted twice for contempt of court. His actions, be they deliberate or dumb, risked mistrials in cases involving dozens of grooming gang members.I do care that anyone raises the profile of these gangs and what they do, that's all.
If it's him, fair enough, I agree he is not doing much to help, but any publicity is...
They were already arrested, charged and in court. SYL didn’t do anything to help get them there. Once sentenced (i.e. after valid restrictions are lifted) we will read about it in the news. His repeated actions could have freed them. Surely nobody agrees that’s a good thing, raised profile or otherwise?
SYL wasn’t helping to raise the profile of the story when the Rotherham story broke. When the Times article came out he was accepting £2k/mth from Quilliam to keep his mouth shut. Cash>principles.
SYL didn’t help raise the profile of the gangs for the following 2yrs either. He was locked up.
Other than write books about how all Muslims want to kill us what has he really done?
JuanCarlosFandango said:
colin_p said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
How much killing do you actually blame Islam for?
Nobody "actually" knows but it is estimated to be between 250,000,000 and 300,000,000. Using the lower figure that is about 180,000 a year over the 1,400 years it has existed. For context communism comes in a poor second at 80,000,000.I wouldn't expect anything like accuracy but would be interested to see how it was estimated. Presumably everyone who died in a war involving a mostly Muslim country?
Pretty much like Dindoit's link. Fun for a bored historian but pretty useless.
I did ask.
Maybe a better question, do you think it is Islam that is responsible for the killing or simply historical circumstances?
Another opinion
https://blog.sami-aldeeb.com/2018/03/18/islamic-in...
Dindoit said:
Neither you nor SYL have said anything about Peter Gillett. Or Leigh McMillan. In case your google is broken they’re EDL members that were jailed this year for grooming and raping children.
It is almost as if you only care when the perpetrators are not part of your “superior western culture”.
I refer you to iforb’s post above It is almost as if you only care when the perpetrators are not part of your “superior western culture”.
del mar said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
colin_p said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
How much killing do you actually blame Islam for?
Nobody "actually" knows but it is estimated to be between 250,000,000 and 300,000,000. Using the lower figure that is about 180,000 a year over the 1,400 years it has existed. For context communism comes in a poor second at 80,000,000.I wouldn't expect anything like accuracy but would be interested to see how it was estimated. Presumably everyone who died in a war involving a mostly Muslim country?
Pretty much like Dindoit's link. Fun for a bored historian but pretty useless.
I did ask.
Maybe a better question, do you think it is Islam that is responsible for the killing or simply historical circumstances?
Another opinion
https://blog.sami-aldeeb.com/2018/03/18/islamic-in...
I cannot believe that someone from an ex-empire controlling, Christian nation is giving out about another religion or nation state having a history of wars.
If that’s an argument you think is valid, then my friend, you are delusional.
Zod said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No the answer is simply not being a dick to someone because of their religion.
How about not being a dick to people in general? Including for views you don't like.I'd certainly say it cuts both ways on this issue.
Kill all non believers
Woman are deficient in intelligence
Their opinion is worth half a mans
Death to those who leave Islam
Etc etc
Repugnant views indeed
del mar said:
Dindoit said:
Neither you nor SYL have said anything about Peter Gillett. Or Leigh McMillan. In case your google is broken they’re EDL members that were jailed this year for grooming and raping children.
It is almost as if you only care when the perpetrators are not part of your “superior western culture”.
I refer you to iforb’s post above It is almost as if you only care when the perpetrators are not part of your “superior western culture”.
chunder27 said:
I have no issue with some of the issues he does raise, in particular the grooming thing he was in contempt for. he was an idiot yes, but the more publicity the better.
You mean the one which was already in the public domain, being tried in court, the court case of which he potentially put at risk of collapse? That one? More publicity is fine, but completely separate and a totally different agenda from what he was doing outside the court. That's the behaviour which gets him dismissed as an idiot. IforB said:
So considering the history of violence that has been prevalent throughout the existence of human-kind, what is your point caller?
I cannot believe that someone from an ex-empire controlling, Christian nation is giving out about another religion or nation state having a history of wars.
If that’s an argument you think is valid, then my friend, you are delusional.
Where did the empire come into the discussion ?I cannot believe that someone from an ex-empire controlling, Christian nation is giving out about another religion or nation state having a history of wars.
If that’s an argument you think is valid, then my friend, you are delusional.
The point raised was that Islam was responsible for millions of deaths. Some stats show it is /was.
del mar said:
Zod said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: No the answer is simply not being a dick to someone because of their religion.
How about not being a dick to people in general? Including for views you don't like.I'd certainly say it cuts both ways on this issue.
Kill all non believers
Woman are deficient in intelligence
Their opinion is worth half a mans
Death to those who leave Islam
Etc etc
Repugnant views indeed
http://www.evilbible.com/evil-bible-home-page/murd...
Why do you, like SYL, only ever focus on brown people?
rscott said:
What's he actually done to expose grooming gangs though? As far as I've seen, every group he mentions are already going through the legal process.
As for the incident which led to his most recent arrest - all those charged had been named in the national media before the trial began.
There was then a temporary blackout imposed on some aspects of reporting until all 3 trials are over.
Once all the 29 have had verdicts delivered the media will be free to report what actually happened.
He was more concerned with generating more clicks on his social media channels than ensuring a fair trial with minimal risk of appeal.
Something he apparently had received media training about, but chose to ignore.
This idea that as soon as someone goes trial then there is no need to report on it as it's been sorted is strange. As for the incident which led to his most recent arrest - all those charged had been named in the national media before the trial began.
There was then a temporary blackout imposed on some aspects of reporting until all 3 trials are over.
Once all the 29 have had verdicts delivered the media will be free to report what actually happened.
He was more concerned with generating more clicks on his social media channels than ensuring a fair trial with minimal risk of appeal.
Something he apparently had received media training about, but chose to ignore.
Suppose it would greatly reduced the news media's work load. It's like saying that now people have been charged over Hillsborough we never need to hear about it again.
Having said that with regards to Hillsborough I wish it would just disappear into history now. Lessons have been learnt and incidents like it have not happend again.
Grooming gang incidence are still occurring, it's not about the individual incidences but the causes and reasons why they originally happed and are still happening.
If gangs of people just started going around punching people in the face. Yes you would want them punished but you would also want to know why they where doing it. Because with a grater understanding of the motives you have a far better chance of effectively tackling the problem.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff