How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)
Discussion
It looks like there is a misconception that remainers want an EFTA or EEA deal. They don’t really.
An EEA EFTA - call it what you will - deal is worse than staying in and is not a great deal. But it is better than a crash out exit or lame Canada + option, even with the limits on trade deals and possibly immigration it may bring.
Hence the logical outcome of the much predicted EEA fudge solution is not to bother at all, I have always said this was a likely outcome and was a main reason not to dream about cake and unicorns and hence remain in the first place. “Ah but the people voted!” goes the cry. They voted for unicorns. They ain’t coming. You want to stick to your guns?
I cannot fathom how some can say they are not bothered by immigration but consider it must be acted on because of those that are “concerned”. This is an odd position - it implies those with that view know that immigration is not a bad thing, and indeed probably realise that it is a topic mainly fuelled by farage posters and myths about low paid jobs - linked to the fallacy of the lump of labour.
Thing is, if you can see through the fact that immigration is a non-issue but state you understand why others care, then this does not make sense - in what way do you understand why others care? If you know its not an issue the logical response is to inform/educate those with farage based myth beliefs on immigration to take a broader view for the sake of the economy. And if you mention “social benefits” then you are really on the Farage bus after all.
I share the frustration of BV in the May thread. Despite all the issues with getting a good brexit - it is shaping up to be a shambles - there is no sign of any regret. Odd.
At what point will any brexiteers worry?
An EEA EFTA - call it what you will - deal is worse than staying in and is not a great deal. But it is better than a crash out exit or lame Canada + option, even with the limits on trade deals and possibly immigration it may bring.
Hence the logical outcome of the much predicted EEA fudge solution is not to bother at all, I have always said this was a likely outcome and was a main reason not to dream about cake and unicorns and hence remain in the first place. “Ah but the people voted!” goes the cry. They voted for unicorns. They ain’t coming. You want to stick to your guns?
I cannot fathom how some can say they are not bothered by immigration but consider it must be acted on because of those that are “concerned”. This is an odd position - it implies those with that view know that immigration is not a bad thing, and indeed probably realise that it is a topic mainly fuelled by farage posters and myths about low paid jobs - linked to the fallacy of the lump of labour.
Thing is, if you can see through the fact that immigration is a non-issue but state you understand why others care, then this does not make sense - in what way do you understand why others care? If you know its not an issue the logical response is to inform/educate those with farage based myth beliefs on immigration to take a broader view for the sake of the economy. And if you mention “social benefits” then you are really on the Farage bus after all.
I share the frustration of BV in the May thread. Despite all the issues with getting a good brexit - it is shaping up to be a shambles - there is no sign of any regret. Odd.
At what point will any brexiteers worry?
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 08:33
Gloria Slap said:
An EEA EFTA - call it what you will - deal is worse than staying in and is not a great deal. But it is better than a crash out exit or lame Canada + option, even with the limits on trade deals and possibly immigration it may bring.
Not going to happen. it requires a contribution to the EU coffers and May has just spent it on the NHS.PurpleMoonlight said:
Not going to happen. it requires a contribution to the EU coffers and May has just spent it on the NHS.
I thought the plan is there will be fewer foreigners post brexit so the wages of the poor will go up, allowing May to raise taxes to “pay” for the new trade deal with the EU.Gloria Slap said:
It looks like there is a misconception that remainers want an EFTA or EEA deal. They don’t really.
An EEA EFTA - call it what you will - deal is worse than staying in and is not a great deal. But it is better than a crash out exit or lame Canada + option, even with the limits on trade deals and possibly immigration it may bring.
Hence the logical outcome of the much predicted EEA fudge solution is not to bother at all, I have always said this was a likely outcome and was a main reason not to dream about cake and unicorns and hence remain in the first place. “Ah but the people voted!” goes the cry. They voted for unicorns. They ain’t coming. You want to stick to your guns?
I cannot fathom how some can say they are not bothered by immigration but consider it must be acted on because of those that are “concerned”. This is an odd position - it implies those with that view know that immigration is not a bad thing, and indeed probably realise that it is a topic mainly fuelled by farage posters and myths about low paid jobs - linked to the fallacy of the lump of labour.
Thing is, if you can see through the fact that immigration is a non-issue but state you understand why others care, then this does not make sense - in what way do you understand why others care? If you know its not an issue the logical response is to inform/educate those with farage based myth beliefs on immigration to take a broader view for the sake of the economy. And if you mention “social benefits” then you are really on the Farage bus after all.
I share the frustration of BV in the May thread. Despite all the issues with getting a good brexit - it is shaping up to be a shambles - there is no sign of any regret. Odd.
At what point will any brexiteers worry?
worry when we are a vassal state and we aren't able to do trade deals worry when we are still in An EEA EFTA - call it what you will - deal is worse than staying in and is not a great deal. But it is better than a crash out exit or lame Canada + option, even with the limits on trade deals and possibly immigration it may bring.
Hence the logical outcome of the much predicted EEA fudge solution is not to bother at all, I have always said this was a likely outcome and was a main reason not to dream about cake and unicorns and hence remain in the first place. “Ah but the people voted!” goes the cry. They voted for unicorns. They ain’t coming. You want to stick to your guns?
I cannot fathom how some can say they are not bothered by immigration but consider it must be acted on because of those that are “concerned”. This is an odd position - it implies those with that view know that immigration is not a bad thing, and indeed probably realise that it is a topic mainly fuelled by farage posters and myths about low paid jobs - linked to the fallacy of the lump of labour.
Thing is, if you can see through the fact that immigration is a non-issue but state you understand why others care, then this does not make sense - in what way do you understand why others care? If you know its not an issue the logical response is to inform/educate those with farage based myth beliefs on immigration to take a broader view for the sake of the economy. And if you mention “social benefits” then you are really on the Farage bus after all.
I share the frustration of BV in the May thread. Despite all the issues with getting a good brexit - it is shaping up to be a shambles - there is no sign of any regret. Odd.
At what point will any brexiteers worry?
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 08:33
and paying because of big business and the banks and Soros ,
my regret is we have a weak leader who is tying to please people who voted out and induldging remoaners who are re running the referendum daily...
Anyway what is so good about the EU unless you are German ???
Gloria Slap said:
I thought the plan is there will be fewer foreigners post brexit so the wages of the poor will go up, allowing May to raise taxes to “pay” for the new trade deal with the EU.
You really don't have any idea of the difference between "controlled immigration" and "no immigration", do you. Murph7355 said:
Or change the distribution of what is there already (which is already pretty high).
You mean tax the rich disproportionately to fill the brexit hole?I’m sure “man of the people” Moggy & his ilk are pushing hard for just such a solution.
They won’t do anything rash like tax everyone the same even if they are living 7 to a house, a sort of community tax.
Murph7355 said:
Gloria Slap said:
I thought the plan is there will be fewer foreigners post brexit so the wages of the poor will go up, allowing May to raise taxes to “pay” for the new trade deal with the EU.
You really don't have any idea 
Tuna said:
Murph7355 said:
Gloria Slap said:
I thought the plan is there will be fewer foreigners post brexit so the wages of the poor will go up, allowing May to raise taxes to “pay” for the new trade deal with the EU.
You really don't have any idea 
p1stonhead said:
Not really, it's all going their way, it appears the direction of travel for the remainers is to call for a vote in the HOC if there is no deal, so all the EU have to do is make sure their is a bad or no deal, then their will demand a vote to prevent the supposed disaster that will follow,Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
PRTVR said:
p1stonhead said:
Not really, it's all going their way, it appears the direction of travel for the remainers is to call for a vote in the HOC if there is no deal, so all the EU have to do is make sure their is a bad or no deal, then their will demand a vote to prevent the supposed disaster that will follow,Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
I repeat: the Grievites are no longer interested in getting us a better deal; they are determined to get us such a bad deal that we change our minds. That’s been their strategy ever since the election, and it was obvious it was being carefully co-ordinated with Mr Barnier’s team long before a cross-party group of Remainers was caught slipping disloyally into the European Commission’s London headquarters last week.
Last week, to get his way and keep the game alive, Mr Grieve had to play clever. He dared not force a vote on his amendment in the Commons, seeing it was safer to wring some vague concession from the prime minister with last-minute threats of rebellion. He could then cry treachery when the promised concession was turned into the words of a Lords amendment. Given his visit to the commission, how he had ambushed the prime minister at the last minute and how his and Lord Hailsham’s amendment is designed to get the worst deal for Britain, the cry of treachery is a bit rich.
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-battle-to...
shower of conniving
s. their time will come though.if the troughers get their way the poll tax riots will look like a kids play fight at the nursery.PRTVR said:
Not really, it's all going their way, it appears the direction of travel for the remainers is to call for a vote in the HOC if there is no deal, so all the EU have to do is make sure their is a bad or no deal, then their will demand a vote to prevent the supposed disaster that will follow,
Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
Even with a vote in Parliament it's not clear what would be achieved - there's little to no time left do do any meaningful negotiations at that point, nobody really knows whether article 50 can be revoked (and I imagine that would be open to legal challenges which would take up a significant amount of the remaining time) and any vote to that effect would almost inevitably cause the government to fall, wasting even more time in constitutional paralysis.Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
If remainers think it's going to help I think they might be barking up the wrong tree.
PRTVR said:
p1stonhead said:
Not really, it's all going their way, it appears the direction of travel for the remainers is to call for a vote in the HOC if there is no deal, so all the EU have to do is make sure their is a bad or no deal, then their will demand a vote to prevent the supposed disaster that will follow,Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
As long as they retain some semblance of power, the rest of the populations can go hang.
If this wasn’t the case we’d never have voted to leave in the first place.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff