How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)
Discussion
davepoth said:
PRTVR said:
Not really, it's all going their way, it appears the direction of travel for the remainers is to call for a vote in the HOC if there is no deal, so all the EU have to do is make sure their is a bad or no deal, then their will demand a vote to prevent the supposed disaster that will follow,
Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
Even with a vote in Parliament it's not clear what would be achieved - there's little to no time left do do any meaningful negotiations at that point, nobody really knows whether article 50 can be revoked (and I imagine that would be open to legal challenges which would take up a significant amount of the remaining time) and any vote to that effect would almost inevitably cause the government to fall, wasting even more time in constitutional paralysis.Then we will leave but in name only, as I said at the start of vote to leave,Hotel California is were we would end up.
If remainers think it's going to help I think they might be barking up the wrong tree.
wc98 said:
makes sense given this latest piece from matt ridley .
I repeat: the Grievites are no longer interested in getting us a better deal; they are determined to get us such a bad deal that we change our minds. That’s been their strategy ever since the election, and it was obvious it was being carefully co-ordinated with Mr Barnier’s team long before a cross-party group of Remainers was caught slipping disloyally into the European Commission’s London headquarters last week.
Last week, to get his way and keep the game alive, Mr Grieve had to play clever. He dared not force a vote on his amendment in the Commons, seeing it was safer to wring some vague concession from the prime minister with last-minute threats of rebellion. He could then cry treachery when the promised concession was turned into the words of a Lords amendment. Given his visit to the commission, how he had ambushed the prime minister at the last minute and how his and Lord Hailsham’s amendment is designed to get the worst deal for Britain, the cry of treachery is a bit rich.
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-battle-to...
shower of conniving
s. their time will come though.if the troughers get their way the poll tax riots will look like a kids play fight at the nursery.
I see you are getting the excuses in early for the failure of brexit.I repeat: the Grievites are no longer interested in getting us a better deal; they are determined to get us such a bad deal that we change our minds. That’s been their strategy ever since the election, and it was obvious it was being carefully co-ordinated with Mr Barnier’s team long before a cross-party group of Remainers was caught slipping disloyally into the European Commission’s London headquarters last week.
Last week, to get his way and keep the game alive, Mr Grieve had to play clever. He dared not force a vote on his amendment in the Commons, seeing it was safer to wring some vague concession from the prime minister with last-minute threats of rebellion. He could then cry treachery when the promised concession was turned into the words of a Lords amendment. Given his visit to the commission, how he had ambushed the prime minister at the last minute and how his and Lord Hailsham’s amendment is designed to get the worst deal for Britain, the cry of treachery is a bit rich.
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-battle-to...
shower of conniving
s. their time will come though.if the troughers get their way the poll tax riots will look like a kids play fight at the nursery.Never your fault eh? Always someone else to blame. Twas ever thus.
Will you personally be rioting in this “mother of all riots”? What will they be known as? The bendy banana riiots? The working time directive scuffle? Isn’t it a bit silly to get so angry about something that doesn’t really affect you on a day to day basis? Yes, yes it is. Its pathetic really.
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 20:58
Digga said:
A sort of double win for this sort?
Its a sort of “Brexit, go home” picture really, isn’t it Digga?
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 21:00
Gloria Slap said:
Digga said:
A sort of double win for this sort?
Its a sort of “Brexit, go home” picture really, isn’t it Digga?
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 21:00
carinatauk said:
Gloria Slap said:
Digga said:
A sort of double win for this sort?
Its a sort of “Brexit, go home” picture really, isn’t it Digga?
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 21:00
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 21:25
carinatauk said:
Gloria Slap said:
Digga said:
A sort of double win for this sort?
Its a sort of “Brexit, go home” picture really, isn’t it Digga?
Edited by Gloria Slap on Monday 18th June 21:00
Leaving the EU will certainly not stop illegal immigration will it!
p1stonhead said:
It is the issue of an undemocratic system......p1stonhead said:
The Lords is playing a very dangerous game in terms of its future IMO.wc98 said:
makes sense given this latest piece from matt ridley .
I repeat: the Grievites are no longer interested in getting us a better deal; they are determined to get us such a bad deal that we change our minds. That’s been their strategy ever since the election, and it was obvious it was being carefully co-ordinated with Mr Barnier’s team long before a cross-party group of Remainers was caught slipping disloyally into the European Commission’s London headquarters last week.
Last week, to get his way and keep the game alive, Mr Grieve had to play clever. He dared not force a vote on his amendment in the Commons, seeing it was safer to wring some vague concession from the prime minister with last-minute threats of rebellion. He could then cry treachery when the promised concession was turned into the words of a Lords amendment. Given his visit to the commission, how he had ambushed the prime minister at the last minute and how his and Lord Hailsham’s amendment is designed to get the worst deal for Britain, the cry of treachery is a bit rich.
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-battle-to...
This could backfire on them quite badly.I repeat: the Grievites are no longer interested in getting us a better deal; they are determined to get us such a bad deal that we change our minds. That’s been their strategy ever since the election, and it was obvious it was being carefully co-ordinated with Mr Barnier’s team long before a cross-party group of Remainers was caught slipping disloyally into the European Commission’s London headquarters last week.
Last week, to get his way and keep the game alive, Mr Grieve had to play clever. He dared not force a vote on his amendment in the Commons, seeing it was safer to wring some vague concession from the prime minister with last-minute threats of rebellion. He could then cry treachery when the promised concession was turned into the words of a Lords amendment. Given his visit to the commission, how he had ambushed the prime minister at the last minute and how his and Lord Hailsham’s amendment is designed to get the worst deal for Britain, the cry of treachery is a bit rich.
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-battle-to...
They won't now be angling after a second referendum. A coordinated Leave campaign making the most of just the above line will see a bigger result for Leave IMO.
And a half-hearted leaving will utterly demolish the Tories. It feels like the instigators of this want to remain in no matter what the cost. Which is interesting.
Question is, are there enough Tory pro-EU rebels to carry this out?
Murph7355 said:
This could backfire on them quite badly.
They won't now be angling after a second referendum. A coordinated Leave campaign making the most of just the above line will see a bigger result for Leave IMO.
And a half-hearted leaving will utterly demolish the Tories. It feels like the instigators of this want to remain in no matter what the cost. Which is interesting.
Question is, are there enough Tory pro-EU rebels to carry this out?
The question is actually are there enough pro-Brexit Labour rebels to avoid it...They won't now be angling after a second referendum. A coordinated Leave campaign making the most of just the above line will see a bigger result for Leave IMO.
And a half-hearted leaving will utterly demolish the Tories. It feels like the instigators of this want to remain in no matter what the cost. Which is interesting.
Question is, are there enough Tory pro-EU rebels to carry this out?
davepoth said:
Even with a vote in Parliament it's not clear what would be achieved - there's little to no time left do do any meaningful negotiations at that point, nobody really knows whether article 50 can be revoked (and I imagine that would be open to legal challenges which would take up a significant amount of the remaining time) and any vote to that effect would almost inevitably cause the government to fall, wasting even more time in constitutional paralysis.
If remainers think it's going to help I think they might be barking up the wrong tree.
The UK would need to seek an extension to the two year deadline under A50.If remainers think it's going to help I think they might be barking up the wrong tree.
PurpleMoonlight said:
davepoth said:
Even with a vote in Parliament it's not clear what would be achieved - there's little to no time left do do any meaningful negotiations at that point, nobody really knows whether article 50 can be revoked (and I imagine that would be open to legal challenges which would take up a significant amount of the remaining time) and any vote to that effect would almost inevitably cause the government to fall, wasting even more time in constitutional paralysis.
If remainers think it's going to help I think they might be barking up the wrong tree.
The UK would need to seek an extension to the two year deadline under A50.If remainers think it's going to help I think they might be barking up the wrong tree.
All this takes time. I have no idea whether this is all feasible however with each passing day, and each quibbling attempt to obsfucate, we literally are heading off the edge of a cliff.
At what point does it become apparent that the result of the parliament interventions we are heading towards no deal?
Remainers can pontificate till the cows come home about check and meaningful votes but It. Is. All. f
king. Irrelevant to the process underway. Next March we hit a brick wall. Parliamentary obstructionism is pushing this country to the point where our fate will quite literally be in the hands of the EU. Mind boggling.Ridgemont said:
Which would require consent from the council.
All this takes time. I have no idea whether this is all feasible however with each passing day, and each quibbling attempt to obsfucate, we literally are heading off the edge of a cliff.
At what point does it become apparent that the result of the parliament interventions we are heading towards no deal?
Remainers can pontificate till the cows come home about check and meaningful votes but It. Is. All. fking. Irrelevant to the process underway. Next March we hit a brick wall. Parliamentary obstructionism is pushing this country to the point where our fate will quite literally be in the hands of the EU. Mind boggling.
You don't like the control you have taken back?All this takes time. I have no idea whether this is all feasible however with each passing day, and each quibbling attempt to obsfucate, we literally are heading off the edge of a cliff.
At what point does it become apparent that the result of the parliament interventions we are heading towards no deal?
Remainers can pontificate till the cows come home about check and meaningful votes but It. Is. All. f
king. Irrelevant to the process underway. Next March we hit a brick wall. Parliamentary obstructionism is pushing this country to the point where our fate will quite literally be in the hands of the EU. Mind boggling.PurpleMoonlight said:
Ridgemont said:
Which would require consent from the council.
All this takes time. I have no idea whether this is all feasible however with each passing day, and each quibbling attempt to obsfucate, we literally are heading off the edge of a cliff.
At what point does it become apparent that the result of the parliament interventions we are heading towards no deal?
Remainers can pontificate till the cows come home about check and meaningful votes but It. Is. All. fking. Irrelevant to the process underway. Next March we hit a brick wall. Parliamentary obstructionism is pushing this country to the point where our fate will quite literally be in the hands of the EU. Mind boggling.
You don't like the control you have taken back?All this takes time. I have no idea whether this is all feasible however with each passing day, and each quibbling attempt to obsfucate, we literally are heading off the edge of a cliff.
At what point does it become apparent that the result of the parliament interventions we are heading towards no deal?
Remainers can pontificate till the cows come home about check and meaningful votes but It. Is. All. f
king. Irrelevant to the process underway. Next March we hit a brick wall. Parliamentary obstructionism is pushing this country to the point where our fate will quite literally be in the hands of the EU. Mind boggling.As I have made clear EFTA would work for me, but this process is making no deal more likely every day that passes. The parliamentary process is like some kind of weird wish machine that pays no attention whatsoever to what Barnier is saying. The worst thing the EU wants is an agreement failure invoked by parliament at the nth hour but it is quite happy to use its possibility to force us into the worst deal possible.
Ridgemont said:
Nothing taken back so far: a lot of attempts to tie our own hands about what we are requesting.
As I have made clear EFTA would work for me, but this process is making no deal more likely every day that passes. The parliamentary process is like some kind of weird wish machine that pays no attention whatsoever to what Barnier is saying. The worst thing the EU wants is an agreement failure invoked by parliament at the nth hour but it is quite happy to use its possibility to force us into the worst deal possible.
Would the worst deal for us be the best for them?As I have made clear EFTA would work for me, but this process is making no deal more likely every day that passes. The parliamentary process is like some kind of weird wish machine that pays no attention whatsoever to what Barnier is saying. The worst thing the EU wants is an agreement failure invoked by parliament at the nth hour but it is quite happy to use its possibility to force us into the worst deal possible.
If so, they are doing their job.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Would the worst deal for us be the best for them?
If so, they are doing their job.
That depends on whether you regard the EU as there for the benefit of it's members or vice versa. In theory it's for the benefit of it's members so easy trade with it's neighbours is best for them and incidentally us.If so, they are doing their job.
In reality of course the commission is there for it's own benefit and it's members are simply there to provide the budget, so anything bad for the UK is by definition good for the commission. Thank goodness we are leaving.
Ridgemont said:
Nothing taken back so far: a lot of attempts to tie our own hands about what we are requesting.
As I have made clear EFTA would work for me, but this process is making no deal more likely every day that passes. The parliamentary process is like some kind of weird wish machine that pays no attention whatsoever to what Barnier is saying. The worst thing the EU wants is an agreement failure invoked by parliament at the nth hour but it is quite happy to use its possibility to force us into the worst deal possible.
You seem afraid of no deal. I think you are right to be.As I have made clear EFTA would work for me, but this process is making no deal more likely every day that passes. The parliamentary process is like some kind of weird wish machine that pays no attention whatsoever to what Barnier is saying. The worst thing the EU wants is an agreement failure invoked by parliament at the nth hour but it is quite happy to use its possibility to force us into the worst deal possible.
Where does this leave the bravado of “no deal better than a poor deal” and “UK can survive on WTO we’re great!” etc.
It is encouraging that some, finally, are recognising the recklessness of a no deal exit.
Ironic that you now claim “there is no time for a ‘taking back control’ in parliament”. There never was enough time, as widely predicted. Stop blaming anyone other than the vote to leave for this totally inevitable outcome.
Edited by Gloria Slap on Tuesday 19th June 06:02
Dr Jekyll said:
That depends on whether you regard the EU as there for the benefit of it's members or vice versa. In theory it's for the benefit of it's members so easy trade with it's neighbours is best for them and incidentally us.
In reality of course the commission is there for it's own benefit and it's members are simply there to provide the budget, so anything bad for the UK is by definition good for the commission. Thank goodness we are leaving.
Is the commission not acting on instruction from the heads of state of the EU27 in relation to brexit?In reality of course the commission is there for it's own benefit and it's members are simply there to provide the budget, so anything bad for the UK is by definition good for the commission. Thank goodness we are leaving.
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