How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)

[wc98]

crankedup said:

It’s completely irrelevant, the U.K. is leaving the EU. The only question remaining is the T&C
of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.

to be fair i can't blame eu politicians for the stance they are taking,given the host of problems they currently face they must feel the need to demonstrate that being an ex member is not a good idea. we voted to leave, up to us to make the best of it.expecting favours , never mind capitulation, from a one track political organisation would be wishing the impossible.

[mx5nut]

crankedup said:

I’ve posted as above and before I read your post.
It’s a case of the EU bolstering it’s political position of dissuading other Member Countries from following the U.K. Seems to me that the EU stance of protectionism is more important to itself than moderating it’s policies, which it has had ample opportunity over the past 20 years.

With a UK vote against doing so in almost all cases.

[mx5nut]

PurpleMoonlight said:

the EU27 are driving this

Hasn't anybody told them that we've taken back the control and they need us more than we need them?

Why must they live so relentlessly in the real world

[sidicks]

mx5nut said:

With a UK vote against doing so in almost all cases.

When did the UK vote against EU reform that would align with the UK’s interests?

[don'tbesilly]

sidicks said:

citizensm1th said:

I have said before on here half in half out brexit is not brexit if we leave(and we are leaving) a "hard" brexit is the only way to satisfy the brexiteers in or out take your choice and the country has we are out.

now sway won't like a hard brexit but then he is not a fan of brexit light either.

There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.

The debate in government was held this week and May got her way with our one and only proposal to the EU ,nothing you or i say here will change that in the slightest we as a nation are now at the mercy of the EU.

If the EU accept it with negotiated changes to suit them we have fudgexit where no one is happy.

if they dont we are out on WTO with perhaps agreement on the non WTO stuff like the trillions of bank contracts and maybe agreement for UK aircraft and airports (sway might have a heart attack if this happens)

Or we go for slashers preferred check vote to see if we can forget the whole thing.

Take your pick i don't see any other choices

The last one won’t be happening, so you can remove that from your list of ‘choices’.

Give him something to dream about, the other prospects never existed despite the claim/s, if a 'check' vote gives CS something to cling to, it would be cruel to deny it.

I've yet to read a viable plan/way for such a 'fancy' (check vote) though.

[JagLover]

PurpleMoonlight said:

crankedup said:

It’s completely irrelevant, the U.K. is leaving the EU. The only question remaining is the T&C
of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.

You conveniently ignore that the Commission have taken their negotiating instructions from the EU27 heads of state.

He said other EU member countries not their heads of government. There are growing anti-establishment parties in virtually all EU countries.

[crankedup]

PurpleMoonlight said:

crankedup said:

It’s completely irrelevant, the U.K. is leaving the EU. The only question remaining is the T&C
of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.

You conveniently ignore that the Commission have taken their negotiating instructions from the EU27 heads of state.

As the negotiations move toward a time frame for decisions that count maybe the EU need to review. That would not be an unusual negotiation tactic.
Seems to me that those ‘talking heads’ are ignoring the realities of thier own electorates. This is what has caused the U.K. to decide to withdraw from the EU, it goes to the core of the whole debacle, the ordinary people left behind by an elite small group of politicians. IMO
the ‘don’t listen to them’ thinking from the EU is causing the problems. Why do you think that the far right is rising inolitical strength? Disatifaction of the electorate perhaps

[tangerine_sedge]

mx5nut said:

Why must they live so relentlessly in the real world

[anonymous-user]

wc98 said:

to be fair i can't blame eu politicians for the stance they are taking,given the host of problems they currently face they must feel the need to demonstrate that being an ex member is not a good idea. we voted to leave, up to us to make the best of it.expecting favours , never mind capitulation, from a one track political organisation would be wishing the impossible.

I would imagine they are just running their countries and letting us get on with finding the holy Brexit land that we are looking for.

Would you be losing any sleep if Germany were leaving the EU and not us?

[Tuna]

citizensm1th said:

There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.

By 'this debate' I meant the debate in the country as a whole, and the negotiations with the EU - not the crap being spouted on here. I'm under no illusion that we have the slightest influence whatsoever on the country

My point was, you're cheering on a 'no-one's happy' Brexit as though the worse thing that will happen is people feel a little sad inside. If you believe that, you really, really haven't understood what's being proposed.

When it finally sinks in, you're going to be very upset. And possibly out of a job.

[Dr Jekyll]

PurpleMoonlight said:

crankedup said:

It’s completely irrelevant, the U.K. is leaving the EU. The only question remaining is the T&C
of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.

You conveniently ignore that the Commission have taken their negotiating instructions from the EU27 heads of state.

The Commission takes orders from nobody. A UK civil servant who suggested contacting EU governments directly to clarify the UK position was told by his bosses it was out of the question because 'the commission wouldn't like it'.

[citizensm1th]

don'tbesilly said:

sidicks said:

citizensm1th said:

I have said before on here half in half out brexit is not brexit if we leave(and we are leaving) a "hard" brexit is the only way to satisfy the brexiteers in or out take your choice and the country has we are out.

now sway won't like a hard brexit but then he is not a fan of brexit light either.

There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.

The debate in government was held this week and May got her way with our one and only proposal to the EU ,nothing you or i say here will change that in the slightest we as a nation are now at the mercy of the EU.

If the EU accept it with negotiated changes to suit them we have fudgexit where no one is happy.

if they dont we are out on WTO with perhaps agreement on the non WTO stuff like the trillions of bank contracts and maybe agreement for UK aircraft and airports (sway might have a heart attack if this happens)

Or we go for slashers preferred check vote to see if we can forget the whole thing.

Take your pick i don't see any other choices

The last one won’t be happening, so you can remove that from your list of ‘choices’.

Give him something to dream about, the other prospects never existed despite the claim/s, if a 'check' vote gives CS something to cling to, it would be cruel to deny it.

I've yet to read a viable plan/way for such a 'fancy' (check vote) though.

i don't want a check vote you well named person, wto for me the harshest most abrupt brexit possible from my point of view

[JagLover]

wc98 said:

i am surprised at some of the posts today given the generally accepted position among many was "nothing is agreed until it is all agreed".

If you are shocked at some of the posts on here you shouldn't read some of the comments on the Spectator website, a popular opinion there is that the Cabinet should be strung up from the nearest lamppost

Fully agree we need to wait for the final deal and even this "victory" for May, was apparently accompanied by the concession that more preparations would be made for a no deal Brexit.

[crankedup]

wc98 said:

crankedup said:

It’s completely irrelevant, the U.K. is leaving the EU. The only question remaining is the T&C
of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.

to be fair i can't blame eu politicians for the stance they are taking,given the host of problems they currently face they must feel the need to demonstrate that being an ex member is not a good idea. we voted to leave, up to us to make the best of it.expecting favours , never mind capitulation, from a one track political organisation would be wishing the impossible.

I agree and would not expect the EU to throw the towel in. Yes we voted to leave, but the EU still have an interest in the U.K., not to mention our pile of cash passed over to the EU every year. Looking to cement a deal that suits both the EU and the U.K. was never going to be an easy negotiation, clearly the EU has no intention of securing any deal, whatever that may cost them. We need only look back over the decades to understand that the political dogma far outweighs any other form of negotiation. Maybe it will mean the U.K. going to World Trade, I still believe that leaving the EU is in the U.K. best longer term interests, made more difficult by EU intransigence, imo.

[don'tbesilly]

Tuna said:

citizensm1th said:

There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.

By 'this debate' I meant the debate in the country as a whole, and the negotiations with the EU - not the crap being spouted on here. I'm under no illusion that we have the slightest influence whatsoever on the country

My point was, you're cheering on a 'no-one's happy' Brexit as though the worse thing that will happen is people feel a little sad inside. If you believe that, you really, really haven't understood what's being proposed.

When it finally sinks in, you're going to be very upset. And possibly out of a job.

You've missed the point Tuna, this poksy little car forum as CS calls it, is bizarrely the very same poksy little car forum that CS wants to brag on.

Go figure!

[crankedup]

Ghibli said:

wc98 said:

to be fair i can't blame eu politicians for the stance they are taking,given the host of problems they currently face they must feel the need to demonstrate that being an ex member is not a good idea. we voted to leave, up to us to make the best of it.expecting favours , never mind capitulation, from a one track political organisation would be wishing the impossible.

I would imagine they are just running their countries and letting us get on with finding the holy Brexit land that we are looking for.

Would you be losing any sleep if Germany were leaving the EU and not us?

Yes I certainly would, not literally but such a situation would certainly be the end of the EU. As it stands the EU may survive another decade or so.

[citizensm1th]

Tuna said:

citizensm1th said:

There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.

By 'this debate' I meant the debate in the country as a whole, and the negotiations with the EU - not the crap being spouted on here. I'm under no illusion that we have the slightest influence whatsoever on the country

My point was, you're cheering on a 'no-one's happy' Brexit as though the worse thing that will happen is people feel a little sad inside. If you believe that, you really, really haven't understood what's being proposed.

When it finally sinks in, you're going to be very upset. And possibly out of a job.

Wrong on so many counts, i want brexit to really really hurt then maybe just maybe a good proportion of the 17 million who were duped by the like's of farage and mogg and grove and boris will wake the fk up and deal out the just desserts that bunch of self serving money grabbing millionaires deserve.


as for out of a job only if i sack myself

[wc98]

Ghibli said:

I would imagine they are just running their countries and letting us get on with finding the holy Brexit land that we are looking for.

Would you be losing any sleep if Germany were leaving the EU and not us?

agreed on the first line,and they have their hands full with that task at the moment. why would i lose sleep over it ? if the germans want to multiply the value of their currency by a factor of three that is up to them. would save them building all those new coal fired power stations to supply industry as their exports would drop a tad i would think.

[anonymous-user]

crankedup said:

Yes I certainly would, not literally but such a situation would certainly be the end of the EU. As it stands the EU may survive another decade or so.

Why do you say that? Would we give up if Germany were leaving?

[Dr Jekyll]

citizensm1th said:

Wrong on so many counts, i want brexit to really really hurt then maybe just maybe a good proportion of the 17 million who were duped by the like's of farage and mogg and grove and boris will wake the fk up and deal out the just desserts that bunch of self serving money grabbing millionaires deserve.


as for out of a job only if i sack myself

While if it doesn't hurt then we weren't duped, that's what really worries you. You want us to learn the lesson that we aren't worthy of voting and must leave the decisions to you.