How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)
Discussion
ElectricSoup said:
-1.
So you all voted for brexit existing in name only? You want out just to be out, even if nothing changes other than we have elected to remove our voice in the EU? That's what you voted for? The Norway position at best? What a pointless waste of time, effort, heartache and money. Actually it's worse than that, it's self-harm on a colossal scale for no gain. The trade deal which the genius Fox will now negotiate will take years, and will amount to less than the loss of trade we will suffer with the EU. For those who will scream "prove it", the government's own analyses state this. Why are some of you saying this is a big win? Where is the victory?
Still nonsense, however many times you repeat it.So you all voted for brexit existing in name only? You want out just to be out, even if nothing changes other than we have elected to remove our voice in the EU? That's what you voted for? The Norway position at best? What a pointless waste of time, effort, heartache and money. Actually it's worse than that, it's self-harm on a colossal scale for no gain. The trade deal which the genius Fox will now negotiate will take years, and will amount to less than the loss of trade we will suffer with the EU. For those who will scream "prove it", the government's own analyses state this. Why are some of you saying this is a big win? Where is the victory?
Ghibli said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Not an option.
It looks like we all agree that we are not working towards the best option now.Deptford Draylons said:
Ghibli said:
confused_buyer said:
So, you're advocating a much "harder" Brexit with maybe a no deal scenario? I can't work out exactly what you are arguing for,
I think he is arguing that remaining in the EU is the best option.Dark times indeed.
ElectricSoup said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Ghibli said:
confused_buyer said:
So, you're advocating a much "harder" Brexit with maybe a no deal scenario? I can't work out exactly what you are arguing for,
I think he is arguing that remaining in the EU is the best option.Dark times indeed.
But it's not going to go anywhere until we're out. We voted to leave, so we'll leave. That's democracy.
If in time you and others can persuade us to go back in again, then fine. That's democracy too.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Please could someone explain how the UK paying 12 billion pounds a year to run a 71 billion pounds a year trade deficit with the EU is a good deal for the UK?
How are the two connected?If we were trading with each other, please explain, how me, charging you 12 billion pounds a year to let me then sell you 71 billions pounds worth more of my goods, and services than I let you sell me is going to be good for your businesses and services.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Please could someone explain how the UK paying 12 billion pounds a year to run a 71 billion pounds a year trade deficit with the EU is a good deal for the UK?
The net figure is £8.6 bn not 12. How much we send is irrelevant.Secondly being a member of the EU allows us to trade with the rest of the world without needing to negotiate trade deals on a case by case basis.
Thirdly it brings many benefits to our citizens. Off the top of my head - freedom to travel without a visa, the right for emergency healthcare when abroad, consumer protection laws e.g. 2 year warranty on electronics, mobile phone 'roaming like at home', the working time directive, the right to retire abroad.
Now we have a situation whereby we still have to follow the rules when trading with our single largest trading partner, that being the EU, but now have no control over those rules.
Also I have no confidence whatsoever that the government will secure deals with other nations better than those we had under the EU. On the contrary, I think we are in for a dry bumming.
In summary, we will be worse off due to poor trade deals, lose citizens rights, and far from taking back control, we will have lost considerable control and influence.
ElectricSoup said:
On the other point, I don't think anyone can draw the conclusion that the referendum would have been won on the basis of a hard brexit either, given the number of people who voted leave, favouring an SM&CU remaining option.
Can you quantify in numbers how many people who voted Leave thought there was an option to Leave the EU & stay in the SM & CU?Could you also provide the source that provided the statistics.
Thanks, should make for interesting reading.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Companies make profits and survive, by making and selling their products or services to those who want buy, use, and pay for those products and services.
If we were trading with each other, please explain, how me, charging you 12 billion pounds a year to let me then sell you 71 billions pounds worth more of my goods, and services than I let you sell me is going to be good for your businesses and services.
The EU are not charging the UK to sell us goods.If we were trading with each other, please explain, how me, charging you 12 billion pounds a year to let me then sell you 71 billions pounds worth more of my goods, and services than I let you sell me is going to be good for your businesses and services.
What makes you think they are?
budgie smuggler said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Please could someone explain how the UK paying 12 billion pounds a year to run a 71 billion pounds a year trade deficit with the EU is a good deal for the UK?
The net figure is £8.6 bn not 12. How much we send is irrelevant.Secondly being a member of the EU allows us to trade with the rest of the world without needing to negotiate trade deals on a case by case basis.
Thirdly it brings many benefits to our citizens. Off the top of my head - freedom to travel without a visa, the right for emergency healthcare when abroad, consumer protection laws e.g. 2 year warranty on electronics, mobile phone 'roaming like at home', the working time directive, the right to retire abroad.
Now we have a situation whereby we still have to follow the rules when trading with our single largest trading partner, that being the EU, but now have no control over the rules.
Also I have no confidence whatsoever that the government will secure deals with other nations better than those we had under the EU. On the contrary, I think we are in for a dry bumming.
In summary, we will be worse off due to poor trade deals, lose citizens rights, and far from taking back control, we will have lost considerable control and influence.
What the EU does is hold the majority of the world at arms length. There's zero reason to think we'll do less business with, say, the USA once we're out, in comparison with today. I don't think anyone on either side is arguing that.
don'tbesilly said:
ElectricSoup said:
On the other point, I don't think anyone can draw the conclusion that the referendum would have been won on the basis of a hard brexit either, given the number of people who voted leave, favouring an SM&CU remaining option.
Can you quantify in numbers how many people who voted Leave thought there was an option to Leave the EU & stay in the SM & CU?Could you also provide the source that provided the statistics.
Thanks, should make for interesting reading.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-finds-ma...
SpeckledJim said:
The quality and quantity of trade deals we get with the EU is woeful. And almost all of them, for what they're worth, are already ok for a C&P replication.
What the EU does is hold the majority of the world at arms length. There's zero reason to think we'll do less business with, say, the USA once we're out, in comparison with today. I don't think anyone on either side is arguing that.
I'm curious here. What sort of deal do you think we will get with the USA? E.g. 50/50 and no deficit either side.What the EU does is hold the majority of the world at arms length. There's zero reason to think we'll do less business with, say, the USA once we're out, in comparison with today. I don't think anyone on either side is arguing that.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Companies make profits and survive, by making and selling their products or services to those who want buy, use, and pay for those products and services.
If we were trading with each other, please explain, how me, charging you 12 billion pounds a year to let me then sell you 71 billions pounds worth more of my goods, and services than I let you sell me is going to be good for your businesses and services.
The EU are not charging the UK to sell us goods.If we were trading with each other, please explain, how me, charging you 12 billion pounds a year to let me then sell you 71 billions pounds worth more of my goods, and services than I let you sell me is going to be good for your businesses and services.
What makes you think they are?
Before the UK can even talk to the EU about trade, let alone do any, it has to pay its annual subscription, Or are you saying that the UK could sell into the EU without having to pay the subscription?
The UK has run a billions of pounds a year trade deficit with EU for almost the entire time it has been a member. You know, where they make and sell more of their goods and services into the UK than the UK sells into the EU. , How does paying billions into the EU`s coffers every year for this `privelege' make being in the EU a good deal for the UK?
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