How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)
Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
Murph7355 said:
They are buying more from us than our good friends in the EU on an increasing basis ...
Not surprising as the population of the RoW is over ten times that of the EU.A per capita basis is a different story.
Murph7355 said:
Coolbanana said:
...
It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.
...
"You" did really well at planning in the run up to the referendum. How much planning did "you" do for a Leave result? How much positivity were "you" shouting about during campaigning? How much planning did the Remain proponent in charge (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "we") do when the result was announced?It isn't that as a Remainer, I and many like me, believe the Sun shines out of the EU's backside and they can do no wrong, far from it, we want to squeeze them for the best deal we can get for the UK - continuously. We appreciate the flaws and the concerns however before we leap, we stubbornly insist upon a Plan we could get behind for the long-haul and at least a decent mini-bar in the lifeboat for the short-term, if nothing else.
...
May is turning this into a s
t show. But please don't sit there on your Portuguese veranda supping a Castle thinking "you" are in any position to preach about plans 
But f
king fair 11/10B'stard Child said:
Ghibli said:
B'stard Child said:
And my thanks to you for your input in the thread
Everytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
I glad that some random bloke on the internet has helped you confirm that your decision was the right oneEverytime I read a post from you it makes me even more sure I made the right choice
On the subject of the negotiations, why do you think the EU are concerned about smuggling through the Irish border?
Let's not forget that they are pursuing the UK for 2.7bn euro for unpayed customs duty.
What's your view or would you father talk about me, Gloria, mx5nut or Next Bernie chairs?
Murph7355 said:
You really have fallen for population numbers being everything when it comes to trade, haven't you....the EU must have been piping you subliminal messages on the important factors of markets while you were sleeping
He certainly mentioned 'per capita' like it was a really important point. Then was suddenly absent when asked to explain himself!Murph7355 said:
"You" did really well at planning in the run up to the referendum. How much planning did "you" do for a Leave result? How much positivity were "you" shouting about during campaigning? How much planning did the Remain proponent in charge (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "we") do when the result was announced?
May is turning this into a st show. But please don't sit there on your Portuguese veranda supping a Castle thinking "you" are in any position to preach about plans
May is turning this into a s
t show. But please don't sit there on your Portuguese veranda supping a Castle thinking "you" are in any position to preach about plans 
I'll take whatever position I choose little Murphs
The 'Remain proponent' did not have to plan for a Leave result in terms of delivering a Leave Plan if that is what you are suggesting.
Do not expect Remain to be responsible for delivering your Leave! Take responsibility and do it yourself. You wanted it! You make it work.
Seems it winds you up no end that I am sitting by my pool here and posting my musings.
Surely you can't be that sad? We're just a bunch of strangers airing our views, chill, don't blow a gasket. "We" haven't got to deliver Brexit! "You" do! May is hamstrung by the hospital pass you gave her.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Vanden Saab said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Vanden Saab said:
I see John Major has put his oar in again on the Andrew Marr show.....
He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
I'd suggest he's bang on tbh.He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
They will be the hardest hit of any negative impact and most everyday people are clueless politically.
Someone has to bear the brunt of that and as Major says, the less you have, the more it's likely to hurt.
Do you think Bojo and Mogg will be worse off?
Go ask 100 people on the street who the Shadow Chancellor is or who the Home Secretary is and they just won't have a clue.
It doesn't mean they're thick it's just not something most people take an interest in.
You only had to look at some of the interviews post-referendum "I voted Brexit to teach the government a lesson".
"People, people, people". He has a point.
But what Major and many others always seem to miss is that there are, literally, millions who have been left worse off and at the lowest ebb in terms of prospects and hope for a future during our membership of the EU, the exact opposite of what they were told would happen.
They see a privileged few feeding off this obscene political monolith that has been built and is being developed to be impregnable and then, as the result of one of history’s greatest political misjudgements, they’re given a chance to vote on leaving it.
Why wouldn’t they vote leave?
As for who’ll lose most if, (when?) the ‘politicians’ finally finish their loathsome posturing, and come up with a crappy deal for everyone in Europe, then in my opinion it’ll be those who dined so well off the EU up to now, with the exception of the unelected drunks and untouchables in Brussels, who'll suffer most in absolute terms.
For many it’ll be as Dylan said, “if you ain’t got nothin’ you got nothin’ to lose”.
Welshbeef said:
How much does Russia spend on defence? In absolute terms and as a % of GDP?
About 4% I believe. So something like 20% more than us in outright terms.sidicks said:
He certainly mentioned 'per capita' like it was a really important point. Then was suddenly absent when asked to explain himself!
Hopefully he's constructing a quick email to Barnier about the 500m people market the EU is (soon to be 440m) and how maybe that's not the only metric he should be looking at in negotiations? (Either that or he's gone back to bed).
B'stard Child said:
Very harsh Murph really.............
But fking fair 11/10
In the interests of full fairness, old CB did have time between his sardines and biltong to acknowledge "they" had been caught flat footed (hard to describe it as arrogance based on the posting styles of the most ardent and prolific Remain posters on here, but I'm always up for a challenge But f
king fair 11/10). The approach he then noted wasn't too far off what I'd have done too...but it does pre-suppose there were zero communiques between the spineless oaf Cameron and the EU puppet masters. I find it hard to believe there was complete radio silence, but who knows. And anyway, both sides had by that point painted themselves into their corners.
It has been clear for some time that the EU aren't up for negotiating anything with us, for whatever reasons they have. I think their likely motives are silly in the extreme, and all their actions do is harden my resolve that I made the right call.
I have a feeling their actions will be causing more concern in the other member states than properly negotiating and smoothing the way out (which is in their interests as much as ours) would ever have done. But that is what happens when you have politicians even further removed from the electorates. They are so far out of touch I suspect it's not recoverable.
Coolbanana said:
...
Seems it winds you up no end that I am sitting by my pool here and posting my musings. Surely you can't be that sad? We're just a bunch of strangers airing our views, chill, don't blow a gasket.
"We" haven't got to deliver Brexit! "You" do! May is hamstrung by the hospital pass you gave her.
You misunderstand me (I suspect you hear that a lot). It doesn't wind me up one iota. It's just a friendly reminder to anyone else reading your arrogant rubbish that your position is heavily coloured Seems it winds you up no end that I am sitting by my pool here and posting my musings.
Surely you can't be that sad? We're just a bunch of strangers airing our views, chill, don't blow a gasket. "We" haven't got to deliver Brexit! "You" do! May is hamstrung by the hospital pass you gave her.
I can't recall which politician coined it, but you are also mistaken on who has to deliver this..."We" (at least those of us who live here
) are ALL Leave now. Like it or not. "You" had your chance to change that and you blew it. Despite having 44yrs of positivity to fall back. How the flying f
k did "you" manage that? (It's partly that "A" word again)
There are 100 of us sitting on a big red bus going a daytrip Beano to the seaside. The driver (looked a smarmy to me) gave us a Choice of destinations of either Margate & Brighton.
By a slim margin of 52 / 48 the vote goes in favour of Margate.
The driver says "all my mates are in Brighton, I don't know how to get to Margate, I didn't plan for Margate and I don't have a Satnav to plan the route for me.....says this for a game of soldiers" jumps off the coach never to be heard of or seen again.
After much huffing and puffing a relief driver eventually turns up and says......"don't worry peeps she says, I'll get you to Margate, I'd rather have gone to Brighton myself but I respect your wishes and take you to where you democratically voted to go" and fires up the bus( a Denis A50 IIRC).
To be continued.......................................
By a slim margin of 52 / 48 the vote goes in favour of Margate.
The driver says "all my mates are in Brighton, I don't know how to get to Margate, I didn't plan for Margate and I don't have a Satnav to plan the route for me.....says
this for a game of soldiers" jumps off the coach never to be heard of or seen again.After much huffing and puffing a relief driver eventually turns up and says......"don't worry peeps she says, I'll get you to Margate, I'd rather have gone to Brighton myself but I respect your wishes and take you to where you democratically voted to go" and fires up the bus( a Denis A50 IIRC).
To be continued.......................................
Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 22 July 22:09
Edited by roops.mod on Monday 23 July 09:38
Edited by roops.mod on Monday 23 July 09:41
Vanden Saab said:
Go on then explain how people on unemployment benefit or minimum wage can be worse off or why brexit was won by the great unwashed voting for it apparently
I’ll see if I can help here. The completely unskilled are going to find it more difficult to get a job. Increased automation to cope with the loss of low skilled EU workers will replace the British ones as well. Reduction in tax revenues will mean the Government needs to make savings wherever it can, especially from benefits.
Hey presto, your 2 groups will be big losers. Given they are very likely to have voted for Brexit you can see a certain poetic justice.
alfie2244 said:
There are 100 of us sitting on a big red bus going a daytrip Beano to the seaside. The driver (looked a smarmy to me) gave us a Choice of destinations of either Margate & Brighton.
By a slim margin of 52 / 48 the vote goes in favour of Margate.
The driver says "all my mates are in Brighton, I don't know how to get to Margate, I didn't plan for Margate and I don't have a Satnav to plan the route for me.....says fook this for a game of soldiers" jumps off the coach never to be heard of or seen again.
After much huffing and puffing a relief driver eventually turns up and says......"don't worry peeps she says, I'll get you to Margate, I'd rather have gone to Brighton myself but I respect your wishes and take you to where you democratically voted to go" and fires up the bus( a Denis A50 IIRC).
To be continued.......................................
I think I have heard this story before. Is it the one where they end up at Beachy Head and Alfie and his mates say "Don't worry, it's a duck boat" just before they go off the cliff edge.By a slim margin of 52 / 48 the vote goes in favour of Margate.
The driver says "all my mates are in Brighton, I don't know how to get to Margate, I didn't plan for Margate and I don't have a Satnav to plan the route for me.....says fook this for a game of soldiers" jumps off the coach never to be heard of or seen again.
After much huffing and puffing a relief driver eventually turns up and says......"don't worry peeps she says, I'll get you to Margate, I'd rather have gone to Brighton myself but I respect your wishes and take you to where you democratically voted to go" and fires up the bus( a Denis A50 IIRC).
To be continued.......................................
Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 22 July 22:09
Edited by roops.mod on Monday 23 July 09:43
Murph7355 said:
You misunderstand me (I suspect you hear that a lot). It doesn't wind me up one iota. It's just a friendly reminder to anyone else reading your arrogant rubbish that your position is heavily coloured
I can't recall which politician coined it, but you are also mistaken on who has to deliver this..."We" (at least those of us who live here) are ALL Leave now. Like it or not. "You" had your chance to change that and you blew it. Despite having 44yrs of positivity to fall back.
How the flying fk did "you" manage that? (It's partly that "A" word again)
Poor Murphs. Really? I almost pity your lack of understanding. I can't recall which politician coined it, but you are also mistaken on who has to deliver this..."We" (at least those of us who live here
) are ALL Leave now. Like it or not. "You" had your chance to change that and you blew it. Despite having 44yrs of positivity to fall back. How the flying f
k did "you" manage that? (It's partly that "A" word again)Yes, we hear you, you are fanatically Leave. You are aggrieved for your lot and want to blame someone other than yourself. You have been told the EU is to blame. It sounds perfect, doesn't it? Suddenly, your Great UK Government will save you, improve all. They were always hamstrung under the EU and couldn't help you before, could they? But soon, you believe they will be able to.
Aw bless.
Do yourself and those around you a favour: get an education. Improve yourself. Learn. Stop being a Follower, a slave to a Puppet Master telling you what to think. You are being led. Used. But you can escape. You just need to open your eyes. Come on, Man, you aren't daft, you can see through the mist if you really try.
We are not all Leavers now. Far from it. That is propaganda for simpletons and you know it. You are above such nonsense. Democracy means the debate will go on for as long as there are sufficient numbers wanting to be a part of the EU. If the UK Electorate want to return, they will. They do not have to accept Leave is permanent. Just as your Masters did not accept they could one day leave.
Democracy. Nothing is forever set in stone and people can change their minds. There, I have given you your first constructive lesson. My pleasure.
Ghibli said:
alfie2244 said:
There are 100 of us sitting on a big red bus going a daytrip Beano to the seaside. The driver (looked a smarmy to me) gave us a Choice of destinations of either Margate & Brighton.
By a slim margin of 52 / 48 the vote goes in favour of Margate.
The driver says "all my mates are in Brighton, I don't know how to get to Margate, I didn't plan for Margate and I don't have a Satnav to plan the route for me.....says fook this for a game of soldiers" jumps off the coach never to be heard of or seen again.
After much huffing and puffing a relief driver eventually turns up and says......"don't worry peeps she says, I'll get you to Margate, I'd rather have gone to Brighton myself but I respect your wishes and take you to where you democratically voted to go" and fires up the bus( a Denis A50 IIRC).
To be continued.......................................
I think I have heard this story before. Is it the one where they end up at Beachy Head and Alfie and his mates say "Don't worry, it's a duck boat" just before they go off the cliff edge.By a slim margin of 52 / 48 the vote goes in favour of Margate.
The driver says "all my mates are in Brighton, I don't know how to get to Margate, I didn't plan for Margate and I don't have a Satnav to plan the route for me.....says fook this for a game of soldiers" jumps off the coach never to be heard of or seen again.
After much huffing and puffing a relief driver eventually turns up and says......"don't worry peeps she says, I'll get you to Margate, I'd rather have gone to Brighton myself but I respect your wishes and take you to where you democratically voted to go" and fires up the bus( a Denis A50 IIRC).
To be continued.......................................
Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 22 July 22:09
Edited by roops.mod on Monday 23 July 09:44
sidicks said:
Ghibli said:
I think I have heard this story before. Is it the one where they end up at Beachy Head and Alfie and his mates say "Don't worry, it's a duck boat" just before they go off the cliff edge.
Pretty poor taste, given recent events.NFS
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Vanden Saab said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Vanden Saab said:
I see John Major has put his oar in again on the Andrew Marr show.....
He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
I'd suggest he's bang on tbh.He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...
They will be the hardest hit of any negative impact and most everyday people are clueless politically.
Someone has to bear the brunt of that and as Major says, the less you have, the more it's likely to hurt.
Do you think Bojo and Mogg will be worse off?
Go ask 100 people on the street who the Shadow Chancellor is or who the Home Secretary is and they just won't have a clue.
It doesn't mean they're thick it's just not something most people take an interest in.
You only had to look at some of the interviews post-referendum "I voted Brexit to teach the government a lesson".
"People, people, people". He has a point.
No he really doesn't , he is one of many who didn't act in the best interests of this country ,
the less well off will benefit greatly from brexit if we don't have freedom of movement
the people with the most risk are the rich hence they and their mates are doing their best to water down or even stop a meaningfull brexit... Major is a
..richie99 said:
Vanden Saab said:
Go on then explain how people on unemployment benefit or minimum wage can be worse off or why brexit was won by the great unwashed voting for it apparently
I’ll see if I can help here. The completely unskilled are going to find it more difficult to get a job. Increased automation to cope with the loss of low skilled EU workers will replace the British ones as well. Reduction in tax revenues will mean the Government needs to make savings wherever it can, especially from benefits.
Hey presto, your 2 groups will be big losers. Given they are very likely to have voted for Brexit you can see a certain poetic justice.
You could argue that the implementation will be sped up, but to suggest it was not on the horizon due to immigration is nonsense.
Benefits have been drastically reduced over the years, it's unlikely to be reduced further as to do so would make benefits for the unemployed of no monetary use whatsoever.
There is an argument that payments no longer being required (lack of low paid immigrant workers) to supplement minimum wage would prove to be a saving for the Govt, so the hit in terms of tax losses wouldn't be as great as you'd imagine, as the benefits bill to support immigrants and their families would/could fall.
It might be worth looking at the Ashcroft polls as to why people voted to Leave, jobs/security/earnings came third in the list of reasons why they voted, Sunderland is a classic example.
Welshbeef said:
gooner1]od said:
t's not a payment. There are other threads. Try to read them and understand. Just because Donald says it doesn't mean it's true
You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.
Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.
Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?
How much does Russia spend on defence? In absolute terms and as a % of GDP?You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.
Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.
Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?
k knows. How much does a bottle of Novichok and some airline tickets to Salisbury cost?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff