How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)

[Murph7355]

Coolbanana said:

Murph7355 said:

... Despite having 44yrs of positivity to fall back.

How the flying fk did "you" manage that? (It's partly that "A" word again)

Poor Murphs. Really? I almost pity your lack of understanding.
...

Do yourself and those around you a favour: get an education. Improve yourself. Learn. Stop being a Follower, a slave to a Puppet Master telling you what to think. You are being led. Used. But you can escape. You just need to open your eyes. Come on, Man, you aren't daft, you can see through the mist if you really try.

We are not all Leavers now. Far from it.....

Amaze us with your wisdom and answer the bit of my quote I left above...

You (no quotes this time) are neither a Leaver nor a Remainer. You'd already left. I can see why FoM is dear to you

As for the rest, underscores your earlier comment on us being strangers. You evidently know even less about me than the other nonsense you post. Which is good going.

I'm comfortable with my choices. I'll stay here and do my bit - this country is still one of the better places to live on the planet on balance, though it's a bit hot at the moment...

[don'tbesilly]

gooner1 said:

Welshbeef said:

gooner1]od said:

t's not a payment. There are other threads. Try to read them and understand. Just because Donald says it doesn't mean it's true


You are quite correct re Trump.
Numerous American presidents have made the same point, perhaps
they are all wrong.

Whether the % 2 is a payment or an increased amount of expenditure ,
it is still an agreed increase that has yet to be met.
Strangely the UK has managed to meet the terms, but sadly few others.

Do you consider the fact that nearly 80% of NATO's budget will come from
outside of the EU, when we leave is acceptable?

How much does Russia spend on defence? In absolute terms and as a % of GDP?

fk knows. How much does a bottle of Eau de Novichok and some airline tickets to Salisbury cost?

EFA.

It's more expensive than Chanel No5, but not as readily available, but will still available once the UK leaves the EU, but not from Duty Free.
The plane tickets and flight might prove to be more problematic.

[JagLover]

bhstewie said:

Vanden Saab said:

I see John Major has put his oar in again on the Andrew Marr show.....
He said that less well off people are going to be worst hit by a no deal and that ordinary everyday people really are not political....
How an ex-primeminister can be so completely out of touch with the people of the UK is beyond me...

I'd suggest he's bang on tbh.

They will be the hardest hit of any negative impact and most everyday people are clueless politically.

They don't tend to follow politics very closely but that is not the same as clueless. Most of them understood very well the simple basic principles of the Brexit vote.

A good example of this is the "no deal" Brexit. By March 2019 it will be close to three years since the referendum result if we are unprepared for such an outcome (that many pointed out was always likely given the EUs ideology) than that is the fault of the government not "clueless" voters. They have quite rightly expected the government to get on with implementing their decision.

[PurpleMoonlight]

JagLover said:

They don't tend to follow politics very closely but that is not the same as clueless. Most of them understood very well the simple basic principles of the Brexit vote.

A good example of this is the "no deal" Brexit. By March 2019 it will be close to three years since the referendum result if we are unprepared for such an outcome (that many pointed out was always likely given the EUs ideology) than that is the fault of the government not "clueless" voters. They have quite rightly expected the government to get on with implementing their decision.

Huh?

The decision is being implemented, how is it not?

The fact that the Government may fail to reach any agreements with the EU is a separate issue. There was no guarantee of any agreements when voting to leave.

[powerstroke]

PurpleMoonlight said:

JagLover said:

They don't tend to follow politics very closely but that is not the same as clueless. Most of them understood very well the simple basic principles of the Brexit vote.

A good example of this is the "no deal" Brexit. By March 2019 it will be close to three years since the referendum result if we are unprepared for such an outcome (that many pointed out was always likely given the EUs ideology) than that is the fault of the government not "clueless" voters. They have quite rightly expected the government to get on with implementing their decision.

Huh?

The decision is being implemented, how is it not?

The fact that the Government may fail to reach any agreements with the EU is a separate issue. There was no guarantee of any agreements when voting to leave.

If you took the vote literally we would have triggered A 50 and left without any deal .. the government
took it upon it self to make it complicated and start playing games sorry"negotiate" ....yes ???

[amusingduck]

Coolbanana said:

Do yourself and those around you a favour: get an education. Improve yourself. Learn. Stop being a Follower, a slave to a Puppet Master telling you what to think. You are being led. Used. But you can escape. You just need to open your eyes. Come on, Man, you aren't daft, you can see through the mist if you really try.

Which side are you on again?

[anonymous-user]

powerstroke said:

If you took the vote literally we would have triggered A 50 and left without any deal .. the government
took it upon it self to make it complicated and start playing games sorry"negotiate" ....yes ???

They were always going to negotiate for our new special arrangement. They just didn't realise that the EU would have a say in any arrangement we make.

If they don't give us what we want we will make sure it's a failure for all but it will be the EU's fault for not giving us what we want.

[V8 Fettler]

"No-deal Brexit could spark civil unrest ‘within two weeks’ warns UK head of Amazon"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-...

Wood burners and tinned food! Wonderful.

[JagLover]

richie99 said:

I’ll see if I can help here. The completely unskilled are going to find it more difficult to get a job. Increased automation to cope with the loss of low skilled EU workers will replace the British ones as well.

Reduction in tax revenues will mean the Government needs to make savings wherever it can, especially from benefits.

Hey presto, your 2 groups will be big losers. Given they are very likely to have voted for Brexit you can see a certain poetic justice.

So you think shutting off the tap of unskilled labour is going to make it more different for similar UK workers to find work

You cannot automate all, or even most, jobs in the context of the technology of the next 20 years or so and there will be increased competition for the jobs that remain.

I would fully agree that due to mass migration from abroad the UK has been lagging behind in automation, but that hasn't stopped other countries proceeding with it.

[JagLover]

V8 Fettler said:

"No-deal Brexit could spark civil unrest ‘within two weeks’ warns UK head of Amazon"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-...

Wood burners and tinned food! Wonderful.

As many forecast, a summer of project fear.

[PurpleMoonlight]

powerstroke said:

If you took the vote literally we would have triggered A 50 and left without any deal .. the government
took it upon it self to make it complicated and start playing games sorry"negotiate" ....yes ???

There is an obligation in A50 to try to reach a withdrawal agreement, and that to consider any future arrangement.

There appears no obligation to succeed though.

[anonymous-user]

JagLover said:

As many forecast, a summer of project fear.

I think the days of project fear are over. By all accounts, everyone is preparing for no deal and project reality.

[amusingduck]

Ghibli said:

JagLover said:

As many forecast, a summer of project fear.

I think the days of project fear are over. By all accounts, everyone is preparing for no deal and project reality.

How much food/water do you have stockpiled?

[bitchstewie]

JagLover said:

They don't tend to follow politics very closely but that is not the same as clueless. Most of them understood very well the simple basic principles of the Brexit vote.

A good example of this is the "no deal" Brexit. By March 2019 it will be close to three years since the referendum result if we are unprepared for such an outcome (that many pointed out was always likely given the EUs ideology) than that is the fault of the government not "clueless" voters. They have quite rightly expected the government to get on with implementing their decision.

Yes fair point, I guess nobody expected us to turn it into quite such a clusterfk.

[The Dangerous Elk]

Ghibli said:

JagLover said:

As many forecast, a summer of project fear.

I think the days of project fear are over. By all accounts, everyone is preparing for no deal and project reality.

Needed I think.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/earwax-build-up/

[Crackie]

ORD said:

Although no prediction is certain, the most likely outcomes for the UK over the next few years are all very bad.

What does that mean? Who's predictions? how bad do you consider very bad?

ORD said:

I don’t think that’s in any doubt.

You may not...........If you have some evidence backed data, from reputable sources, then others might agree with your opinion.

ORD said:

The optimistic projections are very speculative and unlikely to prove correct, relying as they do on a series of very unlikely events all occurring.

The pessimistic projections, in the run up to the referendum, were very speculative and have been shown to be wildly incorrect, relying as they did on a series of very unlikely events all occurring.

Edited by Crackie on Monday 23 July 07:58

[b2hbm]

Coolbanana - although it could be any of the vocal Remainers said:

"We" haven't got to deliver Brexit! "You" do! May is hamstrung by the hospital pass you gave her.

This isn't taking a shot at Coolbanana in particular, but we've seen this "own brexit", "take responsibility for your actions", "no plan", etc quite a lot on these threads. If only Team Leave were allowed to take responsibility and own Brexit but it's not turning out like that, is it ?

There has been constant meddling from Remain voters, firstly trying to overturn, ignore, have a second referendum or just block the move to leave. And now we have the classic case where the government department set up to form a plan and negotiate our departure has it thrown aside by a Remain voting PM and her Remain majority cabinet who have decided to go it alone and produce her own plan.

Now I'd have liked to see what Davis had come up with. It might have been better, it might have been worse but at least it would have been produced by "Team Leave", which apparently is what you and I both wanted to see.

Instead we have a plan produced by a Remain voter which has been criticised by both sides of the argument, ignores the promises made to our largest earners in FS and doesn't even seem to have Barnier's approval. He's just banked the concessions and indicated he wants more, which is pretty much what David Davis said would happen.

[Crackie]

ORD said:

I cannot even begin to understand how twisted a view you have to hold before you can conclude that the UK is ‘appeasing’ the EU. The UK’s position has been borderline insane throughout and has, at times, also been insulting and pointlessly antagonising. It could not have been handled any worse.

That much is clear.

[bitchstewie]

b2hbm said:

Now I'd have liked to see what Davis had come up with. It might have been better, it might have been worse but at least it would have been produced by "Team Leave", which apparently is what you and I both wanted to see.

Did you not think at any point during the referendum "Hold on a moment here, I've got all these people promising me all these wonderful things and not one of them is in a position to deliver on a single one"?

It's one of the things I find most puzzling, that people ever thought that Gove, Leadsom, Johnson and Farage were in any kind of position to actually do anything.

[turbobloke]

ORD said:

Although no prediction is certain, the most likely outcomes for the UK over the next few years are all very bad.

Has anyone as yet told the rest of us exactly how very bad this bad will be (worse than the GFC for example) also how long this short-term very bad will be bad for, how many tins and bottles of water per person will be needed, when we should (not) book flights, when the war will start - armwaving pessimism only goes so far and at the moment it's about as convincing as CMD and George were pre-vote.

ORD said:

I don’t think that’s in any doubt.

ORD said:

Although no prediction is certain

Just not in any doubt. This ^^ Private Frazer rhetoric is same old.

In any case, for those of us who were not preoccupied pre-vote by a potential short-term economic downside due to uncertainty/negative sentiment/eurodroning and still aren't, what other scary futures are we facing? The end of western political civilisation by any chance?

To be convincing, get back to us in ~43 years after the malign influence of dysfunctional supranational bloat has faded away.