Uber driverless car in fatal accident
Discussion
In the land of the free and the home of the brave lawyers, more family members of Elaine Herzberg, have retained the services of a legal team. This time it's the mother, father and son who think they are due a payout after the death of homeless Herzberg.
Reuters
Meanwhile, further along the freeway in California, the Tesla X that was involved in a fatality last week is reported to have been on autopilot prior to hitting the concrete central barrier. There was no input by the driver in the period leading up to the incident despite the car giving warnings to the driver to put his hands back on the steering wheel. The impact and subsequent fire eventually proved to be fatal for its 38 year old driver.
Reuters
Reuters
Meanwhile, further along the freeway in California, the Tesla X that was involved in a fatality last week is reported to have been on autopilot prior to hitting the concrete central barrier. There was no input by the driver in the period leading up to the incident despite the car giving warnings to the driver to put his hands back on the steering wheel. The impact and subsequent fire eventually proved to be fatal for its 38 year old driver.
Reuters
Cold said:
In the land of the free and the home of the brave lawyers, more family members of Elaine Herzberg, have retained the services of a legal team. This time it's the mother, father and son who think they are due a payout after the death of homeless Herzberg.
Reuters
If only her family had shown the same level of concern when she was living on the streetsReuters
Another Tesla crash. Calling that thing autopilot will be what sinks the company, now every time one crashes it'll be news. Driver actjvated it seconds before crash- system failure or "watch this!" moment?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440
Cold said:
Meanwhile, further along the freeway in California, the Tesla X that was involved in a fatality last week is reported to have been on autopilot prior to hitting the concrete central barrier. There was no input by the driver in the period leading up to the incident despite the car giving warnings to the driver to put his hands back on the steering wheel. The impact and subsequent fire eventually proved to be fatal for its 38 year old driver.
Reuters
maybe fell asleep ?Reuters
glazbagun said:
Another Tesla crash. Calling that thing autopilot will be what sinks the company, now every time one crashes it'll be news. Driver actjvated it seconds before crash- system failure or "watch this!" moment?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440
Why? The whole point of an autopilot (on a plane or boat) is to simply to steer whilst the driver/pilot maintains a good lookout and ultimate control. No one sets the autopilot on a boat and then toddles off hoping it will avoid other boats, rocks or bits of land, you still have to maintain an active watch and be prepared to take over from it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440
The problem is not the autopilot, or calling it that. The problem is idiot users who assume they have a self driving car.
Ari said:
glazbagun said:
Another Tesla crash. Calling that thing autopilot will be what sinks the company, now every time one crashes it'll be news. Driver actjvated it seconds before crash- system failure or "watch this!" moment?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440
Why? The whole point of an autopilot (on a plane or boat) is to simply to steer whilst the driver/pilot maintains a good lookout and ultimate control. No one sets the autopilot on a boat and then toddles off hoping it will avoid other boats, rocks or bits of land, you still have to maintain an active watch and be prepared to take over from it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440
The problem is not the autopilot, or calling it that. The problem is idiot users who assume they have a self driving car.
and I have done double-handed through the night, letting George (autopilot) do most of the work - so it can work quite well in a sailing environment... it is simply the complexity and density of traffic on the roads, not the underlying concept...swisstoni said:
4x4Tyke said:
lyonspride said:
It's also looking as though Uber tampered with the video footage
Citation?While I can believe that, I've not seen any reporting, never mind evidence.
akirk said:
single-handed around the world sailors do set the autopilot and go to sleep and I have done double-handed through the night, letting George (autopilot) do most of the work - so it can work quite well in a sailing environment... it is simply the complexity and density of traffic on the roads, not the underlying concept...
That doesn't make it a sensible thing to do, but in any case, using autopilot in busy shipping lanes or on roads versus all alone in the middle of the Pacific are very different scenarios. and I have done double-handed through the night, letting George (autopilot) do most of the work - so it can work quite well in a sailing environment... it is simply the complexity and density of traffic on the roads, not the underlying concept...The definition of autopilot is:
A device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement
That's it. It doesn't drive for you, it merely takes over the mundane task of steering. The driver/pilot/skipper should be 'driving', ie keenly observing and making decisions.
If you make a judgement that no one needs to be 'driving' in the middle of the Pacific because there's nothing to hit, that doesn't mean the autopilot is in control, it just means that no one is, but the boat will at least keep pointing the same way.
Ari said:
The definition of autopilot is:
A device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement
That's it. It doesn't drive for you, it merely takes over the mundane task of steering. The driver/pilot/skipper should be 'driving', ie keenly observing and making decisions.
I thought planes could land on autopilot now?A device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement
That's it. It doesn't drive for you, it merely takes over the mundane task of steering. The driver/pilot/skipper should be 'driving', ie keenly observing and making decisions.
RobDickinson said:
Ice cars catch fire all the time.
The Tesla battery is designed to burn slowly, the driver wasnt burnt.
The Tesla battery is designed to burn slowly, the driver wasnt burnt.
The car doesn't look untoasted to me.
And, since the collision was fatal, the precise details of how the driver died (fire or impact) are fairly academic.
Compare also the position of the impact damage with the location of the battery pack...
As for "designed to burn slowly"... The battery caught fire. Same as in the Dutch Model S fatality a year or so back. Burning LiIon is not nice.
TooMany2cvs said:
RobDickinson said:
Ice cars catch fire all the time.
The Tesla battery is designed to burn slowly, the driver wasnt burnt.
The Tesla battery is designed to burn slowly, the driver wasnt burnt.
The car doesn't look untoasted to me.
And, since the collision was fatal, the precise details of how the driver died (fire or impact) are fairly academic.
Compare also the position of the impact damage with the location of the battery pack...
As for "designed to burn slowly"... The battery caught fire. Same as in the Dutch Model S fatality a year or so back. Burning LiIon is not nice.
As long as people are involved these sorts of things will happen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOST5S06F-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOST5S06F-o
TooMany2cvs said:
RobDickinson said:
Ice cars catch fire all the time.
The Tesla battery is designed to burn slowly, the driver wasnt burnt.
The Tesla battery is designed to burn slowly, the driver wasnt burnt.
The car doesn't look untoasted to me.
And, since the collision was fatal, the precise details of how the driver died (fire or impact) are fairly academic.
Compare also the position of the impact damage with the location of the battery pack...
As for "designed to burn slowly"... The battery caught fire. Same as in the Dutch Model S fatality a year or so back. Burning LiIon is not nice.
How many ICE cars have caught fire after an accident? How many have caught fire without an accident. Ferrari's seem to do so regularly, as do Lamborghini's.
98elise said:
For it to burn slowly, the battery has to have caught fire? The battery has multiple fire walls so will only partially burn as it did in this case.
What is the battery housing made from? Presumably not aluminium alloy since that wouldnt provide protection for very long at all in a li-ion fire.Blue Oval84 said:
Ari said:
The definition of autopilot is:
A device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement
That's it. It doesn't drive for you, it merely takes over the mundane task of steering. The driver/pilot/skipper should be 'driving', ie keenly observing and making decisions.
I thought planes could land on autopilot now?A device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement
That's it. It doesn't drive for you, it merely takes over the mundane task of steering. The driver/pilot/skipper should be 'driving', ie keenly observing and making decisions.
AW111 said:
In both cases the car was pretty toasted, but there was plenty of time to get the occupants out, IIRC.
Looks like the driver's door has been removed by the fire brigade, presumably because it was wedged through the impact (or the driver was unconscious).There's a first-hand story somewhere on the web - I suspect here, but google doesn't seem to want to find it - from somebody who was first on the scene at a car crash. Nothing too bad, and the driver was conscious, but his foot was trapped, and they both thought it safer not to try and get him out. Then there was a smell of singeing, then a wisp of smoke. Attempts to free him didn't work. The smoke turned into flame. Attempts got more desperate. The flames increased, until the guy telling the tale was forced back. He had to sit and watch as the car was totally consumed... until the screaming stopped, just as he heard the first sirens approaching. It's bloody sobering to read.
Appears that the Uber car spotted the pedestrian, but decided to not stop.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08...
incident report said:
Although the car’s sensors detected Herzberg, its software which decides how it should react was tuned too far in favour of ignoring objects in its path which might be “false positives” (such as plastic bags), according to a report from the Information. This meant the modified Volvo XC90 did not react fast enough.
The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.
The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.
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