Uber driverless car in fatal accident
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Looks like the driver's door has been removed by the fire brigade, presumably because it was wedged through the impact (or the driver was unconscious).
There's a first-hand story somewhere on the web - I suspect here, but google doesn't seem to want to find it - from somebody who was first on the scene at a car crash. Nothing too bad, and the driver was conscious, but his foot was trapped, and they both thought it safer not to try and get him out. Then there was a smell of singeing, then a wisp of smoke. Attempts to free him didn't work. The smoke turned into flame. Attempts got more desperate. The flames increased, until the guy telling the tale was forced back. He had to sit and watch as the car was totally consumed... until the screaming stopped, just as he heard the first sirens approaching. It's bloody sobering to read.
Sobering indeed. Reminds me to put the crowbar back in the Land Rover that I usually carry in there.There's a first-hand story somewhere on the web - I suspect here, but google doesn't seem to want to find it - from somebody who was first on the scene at a car crash. Nothing too bad, and the driver was conscious, but his foot was trapped, and they both thought it safer not to try and get him out. Then there was a smell of singeing, then a wisp of smoke. Attempts to free him didn't work. The smoke turned into flame. Attempts got more desperate. The flames increased, until the guy telling the tale was forced back. He had to sit and watch as the car was totally consumed... until the screaming stopped, just as he heard the first sirens approaching. It's bloody sobering to read.
hyphen said:
Appears that the Uber car spotted the pedestrian, but decided to not stop.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08...
I can hear the sound of the lawsuit from here...https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08...
incident report said:
Although the car’s sensors detected Herzberg, its software which decides how it should react was tuned too far in favour of ignoring objects in its path which might be “false positives” (such as plastic bags), according to a report from the Information. This meant the modified Volvo XC90 did not react fast enough.
The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.
The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.
Mr2Mike said:
Brother D said:
If it concerns UBER I wouldn't put it past them, but in all honestly it's just a crap dash cam with poor night vision.
Is the video from a separate crappy dashcam, or is it the actual camera used for the autonomy?hyphen said:
Appears that the Uber car spotted the pedestrian, but decided to not stop.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08...
Hmm. Errant little plastic blag gently wafting in the breeze or big woman, with a big bike and hauling a big bag full of drink cans. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/08...
incident report said:
Although the car’s sensors detected Herzberg, its software which decides how it should react was tuned too far in favour of ignoring objects in its path which might be “false positives” (such as plastic bags), according to a report from the Information. This meant the modified Volvo XC90 did not react fast enough.
The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.
The report also said the human safety driver was not paying close enough attention to intervene before the vehicle struck the pedestrian.
Does seem to suggest they are nowhere f
king close to competent autonomy outside of Canada. Russian Troll Bot said:
soupdragon1 said:
skwdenyer said:
I can hear the sound of the lawsuit from here...
They've already settled privately.RobDickinson said:
Not surprised given the incident.
stty Uber coding.
To be honest I don’t fully understand what you mean. s
tty Uber coding. This is one of the leading firms in autonomous driving and the one that is pushing the boundaries the most but years ago we had VWs with sensors that couldn’t differentiate between driveway gate posts and bollards and true risks and let people into their driveways and in 2018 we still have issues with systems picking up an enormous moving object and deciding to ignore it.
DonkeyApple said:
To be honest I don’t fully understand what you mean.
This is one of the leading firms in autonomous driving and the one that is pushing the boundaries the most but years ago we had VWs with sensors that couldn’t differentiate between driveway gate posts and bollards and true risks and let people into their driveways and in 2018 we still have issues with systems picking up an enormous moving object and deciding to ignore it.
So despite many years of development the technology is still flawed?This is one of the leading firms in autonomous driving and the one that is pushing the boundaries the most but years ago we had VWs with sensors that couldn’t differentiate between driveway gate posts and bollards and true risks and let people into their driveways and in 2018 we still have issues with systems picking up an enormous moving object and deciding to ignore it.
DonkeyApple said:
To be honest I don’t fully understand what you mean.
This is one of the leading firms in autonomous driving and the one that is pushing the boundaries the most but years ago we had VWs with sensors that couldn’t differentiate between driveway gate posts and bollards and true risks and let people into their driveways and in 2018 we still have issues with systems picking up an enormous moving object and deciding to ignore it.
I mean their software was dialled in to mistake a lady and bicycle for a plastic bag. They dont seem to have done basic testing here (unlike google) just threw it at the real world and hoped the human 'driver' was paying attentionThis is one of the leading firms in autonomous driving and the one that is pushing the boundaries the most but years ago we had VWs with sensors that couldn’t differentiate between driveway gate posts and bollards and true risks and let people into their driveways and in 2018 we still have issues with systems picking up an enormous moving object and deciding to ignore it.
We know that it is flawed really because it is still in the development phase so there will be many flaws that are being worked through. It was more that while I look forward to having the option of autonomous driving I personally do not believe that we are anywhere near as close as more avid followers would like to believe and that this horrible incident has highlighted this rather clearly. One of the leading developers and arguably the key firm in pushing the boundaries and risk taking has a system which still struggles to plot what was a very large, moving obstacle/ threat as just that.
DonkeyApple said:
RobDickinson said:
Not surprised given the incident.
stty Uber coding.
To be honest I don’t fully understand what you mean. s
tty Uber coding. This is one of the leading firms in autonomous driving and the one that is pushing the boundaries the most but years ago we had VWs with sensors that couldn’t differentiate between driveway gate posts and bollards and true risks and let people into their driveways and in 2018 we still have issues with systems picking up an enormous moving object and deciding to ignore it.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
AW111 said:
Uber has a very cavalier attitude to rules and regulations and has tested self-driving cars without official permission on several occasions.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
They really are rubbish, they have released a Uber plane prototype today 
Should have waited till after this had died down, distraction news is one thing, saying trust us in the skies too is just barmy.Californian report said:
According to driving statistics compiled by an analyst firm, Uber is the worst of six major self-driving car companies testing its vehicles in the state.
The minicab firm experienced a “disengagement” – when the automated system forces the human driver/passenger to take over control of the vehicle – once every mile driven, with a total of 20,354 miles clocked up before it was banned from testing in the state.
By contrast, at the top of the table was Waymo, Google’s sibling company, with one disengagement every 5,128 miles driven, and more than half a million miles driven in the last 12 months.
The minicab firm experienced a “disengagement” – when the automated system forces the human driver/passenger to take over control of the vehicle – once every mile driven, with a total of 20,354 miles clocked up before it was banned from testing in the state.
By contrast, at the top of the table was Waymo, Google’s sibling company, with one disengagement every 5,128 miles driven, and more than half a million miles driven in the last 12 months.
hyphen said:
AW111 said:
Uber has a very cavalier attitude to rules and regulations and has tested self-driving cars without official permission on several occasions.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
They really are rubbish, they have released a Uber plane prototype today Should have waited till after this had died down, distraction news is one thing, saying trust us in the skies too is just barmy.k about anyone’s wellbeing or any laws?I don’t believe it is such a simple case as to write this incident off purely on the grounds of bad programming when the company involved is absolutely renowned for a specific behavioural type.
DonkeyApple said:
hyphen said:
AW111 said:
Uber has a very cavalier attitude to rules and regulations and has tested self-driving cars without official permission on several occasions.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
There was an internal memo published where the project leader was critical of the "risk-averse" attitude of people when he was at Waymo...
I'd say crappy coding and management are a near certainty.
They really are rubbish, they have released a Uber plane prototype today Should have waited till after this had died down, distraction news is one thing, saying trust us in the skies too is just barmy.k about anyone’s wellbeing or any laws?I don’t believe it is such a simple case as to write this incident off purely on the grounds of bad programming when the company involved is absolutely renowned for a specific behavioural type.
They aren't trying to make the world a better hipper cuddly place - they dream of cold hard cash. And screw the consequences.
RobDickinson said:
someone programmed it to look at a human with a bike and think it was a plastic bag.
that in my (admittedly limited experience of 26 years software development) is bad
Id probably chalk it up to an outright failure.
But that’s not really the point. That’s obviously what happened and it will happen again and again. It’s part of the development process. It will happen to all the companies. that in my (admittedly limited experience of 26 years software development) is bad
Id probably chalk it up to an outright failure.
The fact that the more devout followers of autonomous driving appear to do readily want to separate out Uber now as having bad programmers is in itself interesting but it doesn’t redress the key issue but rather attempts to sweep it under the carpet.
swisstoni said:
I think it boils down to Silicon Valley hubris. I'd like to think that people (ie politicians and opinion formers) are finally waking up to what they are doing.
They aren't trying to make the world a better hipper cuddly place - they dream of cold hard cash. And screw the consequences.
I think it's a combination of hubris and limited experience. A bug in a web app (Facebook / gmail / Uber etc) doesn't have any serious consequences - push out a patch the next day and everything is back to normal. They aren't trying to make the world a better hipper cuddly place - they dream of cold hard cash. And screw the consequences.
Safety critical code requires a much more cautious approach, which is foreign to a lot of programmers.
The software I write controls machinery*, and if things go badly wrong it could break expensive stuff and/or injure people. That obviously colours my attitude.
* if it's less than a megawatt you're not serious.
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