Poverty in Oldham

[98elise]

bmwmike said:

98elise said:

That's a very unusual case, however 110m would generate 50m tax. That aside if we took the 110m and distributed it to the workers we would all get £2 each as a one off.

Very soon you will run out of rich people.

Somehow I doubt that £50m in tax was paid on that bonus.

Why? Bonuses are subject to tax. I doubt there finance department would get involved in tax fraud for someone else's benefit. I doubt the shareholders would be up for it either.

[98elise]

sidicks said:

oyster said:

Aren't they paid as shares though?

I'd be amazed if that £110m in bonuses even comes anywhere near 45% tax.

You think shares don’t get taxed?
When I was in investment banking my bonuses paid in shares were basically taxed as income, locked in for a minimum 3 year period. I think that’s normal?

Either way the notion that Directors of large PLC's or high paid employees are on some sort of preferential tax regime is crap. Directors don't own the companies, and their renumeration is subject to the same tax law as anyone else.

[esxste]

Rovinghawk said:

esxste said:

1. So how is focusing on one extreme and the median anymore helpful or meaningful?

It removes one extreme & does not give more consistent data.

FTFY.

Rovinghawk said:

esxste said:

2. Target them? For what?

Taxation/ 'redistribution'.

But fine to target the middle earners for tax/'redistribution'?

[sidicks]

esxste said:

FTFY.

You haven’t ‘fixed’ anything - there is more stability at the bottom than the top.

esxste said:

But fine to target the middle earners for tax/'redistribution'?

I guess it depends on whether you want to address genuine poverty or simply want to implement the politics of envy without making a genuine difference.

[Oakey]

CoupeTeddy said:

Not wishing to be harsh, but most of that money is in benefits and she has 4 children, I thought benefits were supposed to be a safety net not a lifestyle. Am I completely wrong?

You obviously didn't continue watching to the single dad who gave up full time work of 27 years to raise his kids (who all appear to be in school, what does he do in the day?).

These stories always baffle me. We don't earn a lot; I work, my other half stays home and looks after our son yet the rent is paid, the bills are paid, there's always food in the fridge, the house is clean and tidy, there's no wallpaper hanging off the walls, we have nice stuff and there's always something left over.

Admittedly I'm anal retentive about our finances. I have an Excel spreadsheet I've been doing for years now and every Jan I create a page for each week of the coming year and input all the incomings and outgoings over the next 12 months. I can look at any particular point in the future and see how much money we'll have at any particular time. Any spending goes on the spreadsheet and you can see how that affects cash flow, etc. I also shop around for the best energy deals, regularly renogotiate the TV / broadband package, etc.

[sidicks]

Oakey said:

You obviously didn't continue watching to the single dad who gave up full time work of 27 years to raise his kids (who all appear to be in school, what does he do in the day?).

These stories always baffle me. We don't earn a lot; I work, my other half stays home and looks after our son yet the rent is paid, the bills are paid, there's always food in the fridge, the house is clean and tidy, there's no wallpaper hanging off the walls, we have nice stuff and there's always something left over.

Admittedly I'm anal retentive about our finances. I have an Excel spreadsheet I've been doing for years now and every Jan I create a page for each week of the coming year and input all the incomings and outgoings over the next 12 months. I can look at any particular point in the future and see how much money we'll have at any particular time. Any spending goes on the spreadsheet and you can see how that affects cash flow, etc. I also shop around for the best energy deals, regularly renogotiate the TV / broadband package, etc.

The greatest chance of improving the situation of the next generation has to be education, and in particular, financial education.

Likewise, unless those people on benefits are less well off than those working (on low wages), the incentives to ‘do the right thing’ won’t be there and very little will change.

[paulrockliffe]

Oakey said:

CoupeTeddy said:

Not wishing to be harsh, but most of that money is in benefits and she has 4 children, I thought benefits were supposed to be a safety net not a lifestyle. Am I completely wrong?

You obviously didn't continue watching to the single dad who gave up full time work of 27 years to raise his kids (who all appear to be in school, what does he do in the day?).

These stories always baffle me. We don't earn a lot; I work, my other half stays home and looks after our son yet the rent is paid, the bills are paid, there's always food in the fridge, the house is clean and tidy, there's no wallpaper hanging off the walls, we have nice stuff and there's always something left over.

Admittedly I'm anal retentive about our finances. I have an Excel spreadsheet I've been doing for years now and every Jan I create a page for each week of the coming year and input all the incomings and outgoings over the next 12 months. I can look at any particular point in the future and see how much money we'll have at any particular time. Any spending goes on the spreadsheet and you can see how that affects cash flow, etc. I also shop around for the best energy deals, regularly renogotiate the TV / broadband package, etc.

He was getting 20k of benefits, if it's the same chap that was trailered on the radio earlier in the day, of course he gave up work. That's more money than most take home after tax.

[anonymous-user]

My whole family is from Oldham. It's a fvcking miserable hole. Incredibly there are no travel restrictions on residents and they even have roads allowing anyone to leave and get a job elsewhere. Amazing!

[Digga]

fblm said:

My whole family is from Oldham. It's a fvcking miserable hole. Incredibly there are no travel restrictions on residents and they even have roads allowing anyone to leave and get a job elsewhere. Amazing!

Bloody Up Yonners!

(My MIL was from Blackley.)

[anonymous-user]

Digga said:

Bloody Up Yonners!

(My MIL was from Blackley.)

Fortunately my mum was adamant I wouldn't be born there so when she went into labour got my dad to drive us over to gods own country!

[Digga]

fblm said:

Digga said:

Bloody Up Yonners!

(My MIL was from Blackley.)

Fortunately my mum was adamant I wouldn't be born there so when she went into labour got my dad to drive us over to gods own country!

Very wise move! That's where all my side of the family originate.

Mrs Digga was born in Manchester, but left very soon after.

[Moonhawk]

paulrockliffe said:

He was getting 20k of benefits, if it's the same chap that was trailered on the radio earlier in the day, of course he gave up work. That's more money than most take home after tax.

Indeed £20k net income from benefits is only just below the take home pay of somebody on median wage.

That means he's getting given more in benefits than the take home pay of ~50% of the working population.

[anonymous-user]

Moonhawk said:

Indeed £20k net income from benefits is only just below the take home pay of somebody on median wage.

That means he's getting given more in benefits than the take home pay of ~50% of the working population.

For life. Mind boggling. Can't say I blame anyone for taking that deal.

[Hoofy]

jjlynn27 said:

Grim. 21st century.



Not sure what the solution is.

I bet that matches with the Brexit votes.

The only way to spread the wealth out is by encouraging big business to stop focusing on the south east and create jobs elsewhere.

Of course, this will probably screw up house prices in the south east so decision makers aren't going to jump on that idea very quickly.

[anonymous-user]

I heard this on the radio 4 yesterday or Wednesday
When she started prattling on about not being able to afford sanitary products I just thought its bks
I turned over.

[Murph7355]

98elise said:

Either way the notion that Directors of large PLC's or high paid employees are on some sort of preferential tax regime is crap. Directors don't own the companies, and their renumeration is subject to the same tax law as anyone else.

As this is PH, it's "remuneration".

[crankedup]

98elise said:

sidicks said:

oyster said:

Aren't they paid as shares though?

I'd be amazed if that £110m in bonuses even comes anywhere near 45% tax.

You think shares don’t get taxed?
When I was in investment banking my bonuses paid in shares were basically taxed as income, locked in for a minimum 3 year period. I think that’s normal?

Either way the notion that Directors of large PLC's or high paid employees are on some sort of preferential tax regime is crap. Directors don't own the companies, and their renumeration is subject to the same tax law as anyone else.

Indeed, taking this further it’s difficult to imagine that those fortunate / smart enough to receive massive salaries and huge bonus payments do not employ the services of brilliant accountants. On the basis that this is so it’s not to bigger step to consider that thier tax bill is minilmised to the absolute. All legal and fair under the current regulations of course, but it shoots holes in the argument about highly paid executives paying huge tax bills.

[crankedup]

sidicks said:

Oakey said:

You obviously didn't continue watching to the single dad who gave up full time work of 27 years to raise his kids (who all appear to be in school, what does he do in the day?).

These stories always baffle me. We don't earn a lot; I work, my other half stays home and looks after our son yet the rent is paid, the bills are paid, there's always food in the fridge, the house is clean and tidy, there's no wallpaper hanging off the walls, we have nice stuff and there's always something left over.

Admittedly I'm anal retentive about our finances. I have an Excel spreadsheet I've been doing for years now and every Jan I create a page for each week of the coming year and input all the incomings and outgoings over the next 12 months. I can look at any particular point in the future and see how much money we'll have at any particular time. Any spending goes on the spreadsheet and you can see how that affects cash flow, etc. I also shop around for the best energy deals, regularly renogotiate the TV / broadband package, etc.

The greatest chance of improving the situation of the next generation has to be education, and in particular, financial education.

Likewise, unless those people on benefits are less well off than those working (on low wages), the incentives to ‘do the right thing’ won’t be there and very little will change.

Absolutely correct and I fully agree, especially with regard to financial education. Alongside Social skills and I would be half way happy with our early education of kids.
Parents are responsible for thier kids upbringing of course but bolstering that with independent schooling can only improve matters

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

Grim. 21st century.



Not sure what the solution is.

Where does that data come from and what’s the measurement.

Grim if true!

[crankedup]

fblm said:

My whole family is from Oldham. It's a fvcking miserable hole. Incredibly there are no travel restrictions on residents and they even have roads allowing anyone to leave and get a job elsewhere. Amazing!

My dad came from the Isle of Dogs, should have stayed his house would be worth a few extra quid now.