Discussion
More Facebook lunacy (some of the ill informed replies, people who still think there’s a cure and the fact he’s still breathing proves he’ll get better, despite doctors saying all along he could continue to breathe for some time).
https://www.facebook.com/BBCNW/posts/1884383561592...
https://www.facebook.com/BBCNW/posts/1884383561592...
Huge respect for the staff at AH for continuing to provide care for patients despite these weapons grade bellends outside their doors.
Cant believe the police cant move them away from the front door at least. Cordon off an area for them if they must stand there and hurl abuse but that is disgusting to see.
Cant believe the police cant move them away from the front door at least. Cordon off an area for them if they must stand there and hurl abuse but that is disgusting to see.
pavarotti1980 said:
How are they making money? From the papers?
For a starthttps://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/sarah-evan...
Downward said:
It's piss poor when they can't even get the name of the hospital right on the crowdfunding page.It's Alder Hey, not Alderhay.
PH - accuracy matters.
I wonder what will happen to the money if Alfie remains in hospital and money for any future "treatment" is not needed/ required
Red 4 said:
Downward said:
It's piss poor when they can't even get the name of the hospital right on the crowdfunding page.It's Alder Hey, not Alderhay.
PH - accuracy matters.
I wonder what will happen to the money if Alfie remains in hospital and money for any future "treatment" is not needed/ required
I speak from bitter experience here. In early December 2016 my eighteen month old grandson died from leukaemia. It was perfectly clear that nothing more could be done to help him and he died peacefully in a lovely childrens' hospice. There's nothing we wouldn't have done to prolong his life but we had to take the advice given by several specialists.
I can't help but think that Alfie's parents are being led up the garden path by greedy lawyers. As for their unspeakable, unemployable friends, bellowing outside the hospital, I'm lost for words.
I'll be interested to see where the money goes from the crowdfunding site.
I can't help but think that Alfie's parents are being led up the garden path by greedy lawyers. As for their unspeakable, unemployable friends, bellowing outside the hospital, I'm lost for words.
I'll be interested to see where the money goes from the crowdfunding site.
Dibble said:
A remarkable use of words by the judge who should be commended for the care he put into that ruling.pitboard said:
I can't help but think that Alfie's parents are being led up the garden path by greedy lawyers.
Always good to see lawyers get a mention 
Where are they in relation to spiv estate agents (which are actually more useful) on the useless list now? Hopefully about 10 grades them.
Good judgement from the judiciary, thanks to whoever posted the link up.
Tricky one, as there's not been an actual diagnosis. Just to clarify a few things akin to the Charlie Gard thread, although I can't be as detailed with this one as there's no actual clinical diagnosis, but the court judgement provides a lot of information.
It's not the actual working parts of the brain that's being affected. MRI scans show that it is the white matter in the brain that has deteriorated. The white matter is a fatty tissue known as myelin, and it covers all the nerves in the body. In the brain, it allows electrical signals to jump quickly from one place to another. In Alfies case, those electrical signals are simply firing off in all directions and going nowhere. The result of this are prolonged seizures.
Think of it as the wiring loom in your car. The wires remain intact, but the insulation surrounding the wires starts to flake away and expose bare wires. One day you signal right and the windscreen wipers come on, you try and switch off the wipers and the horn sounds. Bundle all the bare wires together with absolutely no insulation and your car won't even start. It'll probably catch fire.
As a result of the loss of the white matter, none of the electrical impulses within the brain remain where they should. He is in a permanent state of seizure. Worse still, in the court transcript his response to pain shows a significant deleterious effect on motor skills. Imagine something burning your foot and you try and move your foot but your arm moves instead.
The lack of a diagnosis is concerning, insofar that everything treatable that is known has been ruled out, and then everything known to be untreatable has also been ruled out, too. My suspicions are that diagnosis will be from pathology.
The bit of the brain that deals with really primitive stuff is quite far back, in the brain stem. All the big mushy stuff we know as 'the brain' is for non essential stuff, personality, memory, skills, vision, senses and so on. The brain stem has relatively less myelin, and it's not surprising the basic life support functions are still working. Now he's off the ventilator, eventually he will become brain stem dead from prolonged hypoxia.
Once again, some things are beyond medical science, there's a post just above that pretty much sums up the whole situation - the girl in the donut shop who knows more about the case than the cumulative knowledge of all the doctors and surgeons at Alder Hey because she read it on social media.
A colleague mentioned the alfie case a few weeks ago, and asked 'hey wiccy what would make all the white matter in the brain disappear?' My immediate response was 'If it's only the brain, the only thing that would have such a focused effect on a single area is a virus'. Certainly, considering the lack of a diagnosis, that rules out all known metabolic and genetic diseases then this is either something entirely new, or it's a virus. Every cell in the natural world has a virus that will inhabit it. Personally, I suspect that explains the lack of a diagnosis. If all other degenerative conditions have been ruled out, it doesn't leave many possibilities. At this stage, a virus seems most likely but frankly I have little to go on evidence wise.
That neatly brings me to the last point. Post mortem diagnosis through pathological and cytological analysis. Medical advances are made through pathological examination and that necessitates a post mortem examination. I believe that despite their actions, the parents do deserve an answer, but my fear is that this will be hijacked once again and be denied by the nutters who would equate that to Alfies brain being hacked up. Cue images of his head being cleaved open with a hatchet. I hope that those with a greater emotional stability see sense and continue, even if further down the line the parents are given a final answer. Losing a child is bad enough, but I cannot imagine several years down the line suddenly realising with no conclusive answer, the 'what if's?' suddenly take over.
The flipside of a post mortem is that there remains the risk that even with a post mortem analysis, a diagnosis might not be forthcoming.
I wish I could post something more definitive. But once again we have this notion that the great unwashed and clueless are better suited to determine medical intervention than those that have undergone decades of training. Have we really reached a tipping point in society where education is so undervalued that those with none have an equal say in matters they know nothing about as those with extensive knowledge?
That is a truly frightening prospect. I'm going to have a guinness and hit the hay.
Tricky one, as there's not been an actual diagnosis. Just to clarify a few things akin to the Charlie Gard thread, although I can't be as detailed with this one as there's no actual clinical diagnosis, but the court judgement provides a lot of information.
It's not the actual working parts of the brain that's being affected. MRI scans show that it is the white matter in the brain that has deteriorated. The white matter is a fatty tissue known as myelin, and it covers all the nerves in the body. In the brain, it allows electrical signals to jump quickly from one place to another. In Alfies case, those electrical signals are simply firing off in all directions and going nowhere. The result of this are prolonged seizures.
Think of it as the wiring loom in your car. The wires remain intact, but the insulation surrounding the wires starts to flake away and expose bare wires. One day you signal right and the windscreen wipers come on, you try and switch off the wipers and the horn sounds. Bundle all the bare wires together with absolutely no insulation and your car won't even start. It'll probably catch fire.
As a result of the loss of the white matter, none of the electrical impulses within the brain remain where they should. He is in a permanent state of seizure. Worse still, in the court transcript his response to pain shows a significant deleterious effect on motor skills. Imagine something burning your foot and you try and move your foot but your arm moves instead.
The lack of a diagnosis is concerning, insofar that everything treatable that is known has been ruled out, and then everything known to be untreatable has also been ruled out, too. My suspicions are that diagnosis will be from pathology.
The bit of the brain that deals with really primitive stuff is quite far back, in the brain stem. All the big mushy stuff we know as 'the brain' is for non essential stuff, personality, memory, skills, vision, senses and so on. The brain stem has relatively less myelin, and it's not surprising the basic life support functions are still working. Now he's off the ventilator, eventually he will become brain stem dead from prolonged hypoxia.
Once again, some things are beyond medical science, there's a post just above that pretty much sums up the whole situation - the girl in the donut shop who knows more about the case than the cumulative knowledge of all the doctors and surgeons at Alder Hey because she read it on social media.
A colleague mentioned the alfie case a few weeks ago, and asked 'hey wiccy what would make all the white matter in the brain disappear?' My immediate response was 'If it's only the brain, the only thing that would have such a focused effect on a single area is a virus'. Certainly, considering the lack of a diagnosis, that rules out all known metabolic and genetic diseases then this is either something entirely new, or it's a virus. Every cell in the natural world has a virus that will inhabit it. Personally, I suspect that explains the lack of a diagnosis. If all other degenerative conditions have been ruled out, it doesn't leave many possibilities. At this stage, a virus seems most likely but frankly I have little to go on evidence wise.
That neatly brings me to the last point. Post mortem diagnosis through pathological and cytological analysis. Medical advances are made through pathological examination and that necessitates a post mortem examination. I believe that despite their actions, the parents do deserve an answer, but my fear is that this will be hijacked once again and be denied by the nutters who would equate that to Alfies brain being hacked up. Cue images of his head being cleaved open with a hatchet. I hope that those with a greater emotional stability see sense and continue, even if further down the line the parents are given a final answer. Losing a child is bad enough, but I cannot imagine several years down the line suddenly realising with no conclusive answer, the 'what if's?' suddenly take over.
The flipside of a post mortem is that there remains the risk that even with a post mortem analysis, a diagnosis might not be forthcoming.
I wish I could post something more definitive. But once again we have this notion that the great unwashed and clueless are better suited to determine medical intervention than those that have undergone decades of training. Have we really reached a tipping point in society where education is so undervalued that those with none have an equal say in matters they know nothing about as those with extensive knowledge?
That is a truly frightening prospect. I'm going to have a guinness and hit the hay.
Byker28i said:
Dibble said:
A remarkable use of words by the judge who should be commended for the care he put into that ruling.I just wish these morons banging on the door of AH would read it, maybe then they might just snap out of this fantasy of him being airlifted to Italy and making a full recovery. Inconsiderate w
kersdazwalsh said:
Byker28i said:
Dibble said:
A remarkable use of words by the judge who should be commended for the care he put into that ruling.I just wish these morons banging on the door of AH would read it, maybe then they might just snap out of this fantasy of him being airlifted to Italy and making a full recovery. Inconsiderate w
kersAll covered in the recent judgments. The judge even made specific reference that the family were clearly told he could continue breathing (as mentioned by Wiccan of darkness) as a brain stem function for minutes/hours/days.
Both the German and Vatican specialists have agreed with Alder Hey medics there is no cure (or even an actual diagnosis) and all they can do is continue with ventilation/palliative care.
dazwalsh said:
Agreed, a perfect and respectful assesment of the sutuation.
I just wish these morons banging on the door of AH would read it, maybe then they might just snap out of this fantasy of him being airlifted to Italy and making a full recovery. Inconsiderate wkers
I doubt it would make any difference. I just wish these morons banging on the door of AH would read it, maybe then they might just snap out of this fantasy of him being airlifted to Italy and making a full recovery. Inconsiderate w
kersI read Alfie's army Facebook page where someone linked to the Liverpool Echo newspaper. The article was about the abuse and issues the staff, visitors and patients at the hospital were suffering due to the actions of people outside. All the comments I read were what about the way the hospital are treating the family. No thought about anyone else.
According to the Facebook page the family are getting searched on entry. How many people ever get searched on entry to a hospital?
There's a lot more to come about their conduct and behaviour. It'll still be the fault of the hospital.
J4CKO said:
Is there some gene that prevents people from accepting the facts, the poor little lad is terminally ill and will never have quality of life, god only iknow what his day to day existence is like.
I 100% agree, but its frustrating then that there are plenty of people in a similar position who most definitely can feel pain who have no practical legal means of ending their life should they express a wish to.anonymous said:
[redacted]
So far they have got a charity number and registered a domain, they don’t exactly seem to be charging forward to use the money to assist others.It could of course all be done in secret, the Gard's look to me like they don’t like the media spotlight..... oh wait.
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