Discussion
Gargamel said:
Just for a bit of balance, there is this point, which I am struggling with.
She said: “If the parents want to move the child to another hospital, they have the right to chose a doctor, the right to chose where the child will be treated, and no one should deny them that right.
Clearly the child's welfare should be the number one priority. But the best guardians of that welfare should in 99.9% of cases be the parents.
I fully support Alder Hey, I urge you all to donate to them, but should a court really have this power ?
Absolutely. Twig hit the nail on the head as to why they should -She said: “If the parents want to move the child to another hospital, they have the right to chose a doctor, the right to chose where the child will be treated, and no one should deny them that right.
Clearly the child's welfare should be the number one priority. But the best guardians of that welfare should in 99.9% of cases be the parents.
I fully support Alder Hey, I urge you all to donate to them, but should a court really have this power ?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
if it was the other way around, there was effective treatment to make him healthy again, but the parents were refusing it due to religious beliefs, would you still think the parents should have the choice, or should the courts step in and take over the decision making? Assuming you'd want the courts to overrule the stupid parents, I can't see why this case is any different.
Gargamel said:
Just for a bit of balance, there is this point, which I am struggling with.
She said: “If the parents want to move the child to another hospital, they have the right to chose a doctor, the right to chose where the child will be treated, and no one should deny them that right.
Clearly the child's welfare should be the number one priority. But the best guardians of that welfare should in 99.9% of cases be the parents.
I fully support Alder Hey, I urge you all to donate to them, but should a court really have this power ?
The parents are emotionally involved and not rational, the court takes a rational and non emotional look at the situation and looks at all the facts (doesn't just choose the facts that it wants to believe) and then makes a decision based on those facts and in the best interests of the child.She said: “If the parents want to move the child to another hospital, they have the right to chose a doctor, the right to chose where the child will be treated, and no one should deny them that right.
Clearly the child's welfare should be the number one priority. But the best guardians of that welfare should in 99.9% of cases be the parents.
I fully support Alder Hey, I urge you all to donate to them, but should a court really have this power ?
That's my take anyway.
Gargamel said:
But the best guardians of that welfare should in 99.9% of cases be the parents.
Even f that figure was spot on, that's still 1 in 1000 parents who aren't the best guardians of that welfare. That's a 1000 people for every million parents. 10K for 10 million. And this dad is one of them.TwigtheWonderkid said:
Even f that figure was spot on, that's still 1 in 1000 parents who aren't the best guardians of that welfare. That's a 1000 people for every million parents. 10K for 10 million. And this dad is one of them.
He is what my grandad used to call "Proper thick"That itself is alco a factor in this circus. The inability to comprehend what is being said and done and unfortnunately leaving themselves open to the religious nutjobs who crave for this type of person to cling onto and force their own beliefs on every listening ear
Just heard on news that legal actions halted and they are just seeking to take Alfie home, although Alder Hey are saying their family home simply isn't suitable and a hospice would be more appropriate.
I stopped reading the FaceBook comments after the appeal for celebs to take up the cause. The most incredible of these read ''I live just up the road from Julie Goodyear (Bet Lynch on Corrie), I could pop round if needed?''
I stopped reading the FaceBook comments after the appeal for celebs to take up the cause. The most incredible of these read ''I live just up the road from Julie Goodyear (Bet Lynch on Corrie), I could pop round if needed?''
Henners said:
Given the comments listed, would it be good for the mental health of you all to remind you that those UK fb commenters the same voting power as you and I do....
They have more power innit like cos people listen to them and now that the Tories have been shown up to be (complicit - sorry too big a word) to blame in Alfie's death, 'nobody aint never gonna vote for those child killer scum again!'Give me strength.....
I would, once again, urge EVRYBODY to read the original judgement and that last one from the Appeal also - an amazing judge! Especially considering that the Appeal judgement would have been run off quite quickly?
For the sake of argument - Alfie can continue to breath indefinitely, doesn't die as a result of life support being withdrawn and is handed back to the care of his parents.
He is effectively in a coma, has no higher brain function and given current medical knowledge - never will.
How long should he be preserved in this state, bed ridden and being drip fed? It's all very emotive at the moment while he is still a cute little baby - but what happens if he makes it into his 20s, 40s, 60s.
Will his parents still be providing the care (and the funding of that care) - or will the state be expected to carry the burden of their decision when it get's too much for them?
He is effectively in a coma, has no higher brain function and given current medical knowledge - never will.
How long should he be preserved in this state, bed ridden and being drip fed? It's all very emotive at the moment while he is still a cute little baby - but what happens if he makes it into his 20s, 40s, 60s.
Will his parents still be providing the care (and the funding of that care) - or will the state be expected to carry the burden of their decision when it get's too much for them?
Moonhawk said:
For the sake of argument - Alfie can continue to breath indefinitely, doesn't die as a result of life support being withdrawn and is handed back to the care of his parents.
He is effectively in a coma, has no higher brain function and given current medical knowledge - never will.
How long should he be preserved in this state, bed ridden and being drip fed? It's all very emotive at the moment while he is still a cute little baby - but what happens if he makes it into his 20s, 40s, 60s.
Will his parents still be providing the care (and the funding of that care) - or will the state be expected to carry the burden of their decision when it get's too much for them?
It would be NHS/Social care fundedHe is effectively in a coma, has no higher brain function and given current medical knowledge - never will.
How long should he be preserved in this state, bed ridden and being drip fed? It's all very emotive at the moment while he is still a cute little baby - but what happens if he makes it into his 20s, 40s, 60s.
Will his parents still be providing the care (and the funding of that care) - or will the state be expected to carry the burden of their decision when it get's too much for them?
Moonhawk said:
pavarotti1980 said:
It would be NHS/Social care funded
Whilst it may be an unpalatable fact - the NHS doesn't have a bottomless pit of money or resources.Is maintaining life 'just because we can' - with no consideration as to the quality of that life, really the best way forward?
Moonhawk said:
Whilst it may be an unpalatable fact - the NHS doesn't have a bottomless pit of money or resources.
Is maintaining life 'just because we can' - with no consideration as to the quality of that life, really the best way forward?
No definitely not but as it stands if he survived they would have to pick up the bill.Is maintaining life 'just because we can' - with no consideration as to the quality of that life, really the best way forward?
I just think what sort of quality of life is it to keep going.
Timmy40 said:
What should we do in such a case? Euphanise them? That kind of thinking has in the past lead down some very slippery slopes.
I think it will run its course and it wont get to that point. Dibble said:
Byker28i said:
Alder Hey open letter, explaining the abuse their staff have been put through
http://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/open-letter-chairman-ch...
I've seen somewhere that the police are now looking at social media comments and abuse.
Facebook post from Merseyside Police, regarding social media and potential offences/prosecutions.http://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/open-letter-chairman-ch...
I've seen somewhere that the police are now looking at social media comments and abuse.
Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, read the comments. Your brain will explode.
https://www.facebook.com/merseypolice/posts/177490...
Timmy40 said:
What should we do in such a case? Euphanise them? That kind of thinking has in the past lead down some very slippery slopes.
Nobody is talking about euthanising anybody, they are your words not mine.The withdrawal of life support is common where continued treatment/care is considered futile with regards to the prognosis of the patient.
This study conducted in the US indicates that 'In many countries, most deaths in intensive care are preceded by a decision to withdraw or withhold life support'. In the US during the 1990s, this was as high as 90%.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11248...
Edited by Moonhawk on Thursday 26th April 14:08
Jasandjules said:
poo at Paul's said:
Maybe the Poles can come and get him and treat him at their expense?
As far as I read somewhere, Italy has already got a Helicopter on Stand By to take him and "treat" in Italy. 
Halmyre said:
Dibble said:
Byker28i said:
Alder Hey open letter, explaining the abuse their staff have been put through
http://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/open-letter-chairman-ch...
I've seen somewhere that the police are now looking at social media comments and abuse.
Facebook post from Merseyside Police, regarding social media and potential offences/prosecutions.http://www.alderhey.nhs.uk/open-letter-chairman-ch...
I've seen somewhere that the police are now looking at social media comments and abuse.
Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, read the comments. Your brain will explode.
https://www.facebook.com/merseypolice/posts/177490...
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