Discussion
Sorry I'm not buying into the stabby daddy love in that's starting up. He has caused enormous issues at the hospital. He isn't a victim of manipulation he is part of the problem. A massive part.
The disruption, distress and unpleasantness that has erupted is due in a major way to him and how he has conducted himself.
I know that will upset some but I don't care.
I'll make a few predictions.
1. They wont donate any money to Alder Hey
2. He will cash in on it
3. That couple won't be together by the end of the year
The disruption, distress and unpleasantness that has erupted is due in a major way to him and how he has conducted himself.
I know that will upset some but I don't care.
I'll make a few predictions.
1. They wont donate any money to Alder Hey
2. He will cash in on it
3. That couple won't be together by the end of the year
techiedave said:
Sorry I'm not buying into the stabby daddy love in that's starting up. He has caused enormous issues at the hospital. He isn't a victim of manipulation he is part of the problem. A massive part.
The disruption, distress and unpleasantness that has erupted is due in a major way to him and how he has conducted himself.
I know that will upset some but I don't care.
I'll make a few predictions.
1. They wont donate any money to Alder Hey
2. He will cash in on it
3. That couple won't be together by the end of the year
Completely and utterly this. Is behaviour has not been befitting in the slightest. The disruption, distress and unpleasantness that has erupted is due in a major way to him and how he has conducted himself.
I know that will upset some but I don't care.
I'll make a few predictions.
1. They wont donate any money to Alder Hey
2. He will cash in on it
3. That couple won't be together by the end of the year
poo at Paul's said:
garyhun said:
poo at Paul's said:
But what are they going to do with the lethal injection planned for 1200 noon Monday?
Some f
kwit on FB will suggest they had a time machine and did it to him on Monday and brought him back to the present.They didn't happen to mention the lotto numbers, did they?
rscott said:
Right wing, pro-life, gun-toting Trump supporters appear to have arrived on the Merseyside Police Facebook page.
Their comments range from hilarious (registering your child's birth actually makes them the property of the state) to downright scary posts by serving US police.
Unfortunately the stupidity and downright weirdness in this case knows no political or geographical bounds.Their comments range from hilarious (registering your child's birth actually makes them the property of the state) to downright scary posts by serving US police.
FB seems to bring out the mental in a vast range of people, the only common point seems to be they’re all a bit dim!
As I said before, FB was better when you needed a uni email address to join
There is supposed to be a zero tolerance policy against abuse or violence against NHS staff, so why are Merseyside Police pussyfooting around.
The harassment campaign is being run by some Yank woman and Rumanian lawyer, why have those not been kicked out as not 'conducive to the public good', it's been done before for rabble rousers.
The harassment campaign is being run by some Yank woman and Rumanian lawyer, why have those not been kicked out as not 'conducive to the public good', it's been done before for rabble rousers.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Saturday 28th April 18:12
4x4Tyke said:
There is supposed to be a zero tolerance policy against abuse or violence against NHS staff, so why are Merseyside Police pussyfooting around.
The harassment campaign is being run by some Yank woman and Rumanian lawyer, why have those not been kicked out as not 'conducive to the public good', it's been done before for rabble rousers.
It was the same situation with Charlie Gard - foreign bible bashers allowed to incite hatred against medics, the NHS, the government etc. The harassment campaign is being run by some Yank woman and Rumanian lawyer, why have those not been kicked out as not 'conducive to the public good', it's been done before for rabble rousers.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Saturday 28th April 18:12
Also, surely more should have been done to curb the intimidation and abuse from the protesters. If the authorities can close a whole hospital wing and large sections of the car park at St-Mary’s to protect the privacy of Kate, William and their baby why could something similar not have taken place in Liverpool in order to force the protesters away from the hospital site.
BlackLabel said:
It was the same situation with Charlie Gard - foreign bible bashers allowed to incite hatred against medics, the NHS, the government etc.
Also, surely more should have been done to curb the intimidation and abuse from the protesters. If the authorities can close a whole hospital wing and large sections of the car park at St-Mary’s to protect the privacy of Kate, William and their baby why could something similar not have taken place in Liverpool in order to force the protesters away from the hospital site.
My guess - too sensitive.Also, surely more should have been done to curb the intimidation and abuse from the protesters. If the authorities can close a whole hospital wing and large sections of the car park at St-Mary’s to protect the privacy of Kate, William and their baby why could something similar not have taken place in Liverpool in order to force the protesters away from the hospital site.
Police didn't dare risk it. Easier to sacrifice some medical staff to the hatred of the mob than too dispel the mob. I suspect many police officers will have despaired at the events but some senior ones will have had to decide whether it was worth risking a near riot to adopt a stricter stance.
This isn't posted in a flippant "lazy coppers" style. I genuinely believe that senior officers would have had a riot on their hands. If you saw some of the facebook live posts that were put up then you would have seen shots of the protestors. They weren't all yelly women a lot were male who looked like they were ready for a scrap.
They can however do the right thing now and totally go after the s
t stirrers on facebook and they should do so. It will make others think in future and make people realise that posting does have consequences. It's well overdue and I believe some firm prosecutions will benefit the general population in future.I was following this through the week and its why I don't buy into" stabby daddy as victim too" bulls
t being put up, I read a lot of posts on FB that came from medical staff asking for some respect and the replies were totally off the scale vile. I read some posts from people visiting patients and again the responses were vile. Every time Evans popped up giving yet another interview it went worse. He is massively responsible for this and until he realises this and apologies (which he won't) then he can do one.
I suspect there is a lot that the hospital could say about his conduct but won't.
There is also an Uncle involved who whilst seeming to be quite young posted up a lot of stuff. It was all done to force the hospital to allow the parents to do what they wanted. Make no mistake and be under no illusion this was intimidation on a scale not seen at a hospital before.
You will recall that stabby daddy read out a carefully worded statement. It was quite clear the statement hadn't been drafted by him and I suspect it was part of the deal done with the hospital - that's just my opinion . However even after that statement had been read out the childs uncle - Daniel Evans posted that it wasn't the end of Alfies Army and that "This will be until something changes with the hospital but we pray and hope it doesn’t "
Like I said he may only be young I suspect 18 or so but he like the father was well aware of the power they exerted over that mob.
There are victim here they are the nursing staff who have been intimidated. They are relatives of other patients who have been made to feel unsafe and have endured added stress at very difficult times for them. They are the other patients who will have sensed the unease from their visiting relatives. Stabby daddy is WAY down the list.
His partner seems to have been very quiet throughout this she may just be more of a quiet or shy person but in all honesty I suspect that Evans senior hasn't been supportive of her and that's why I said earlier I doubt they will remain together.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 29th April 09:43
A colleague of mine (GP) posted this on Facebook a few days ago in respose to the hysteria and misinformation posted by Alfie's Army. Pretty much nails it imo.
A doctor said:
So far I've been quiet over the tragic case of Alfie Evans, but as a doctor, a father of four and a former intensive care doctor I feel I have a duty to speak.
Firstly, no child is the property of their parents. As parents our own anguish, emotion and needs are entirely and utterly secondary to the best interests of our children. We do not own them. We can't make demands on what happens to them like a piece of furniture. Furthermore, as parents we are naturally conflicted in deciding what is best for them in times of dire crisis. Because of the unconditional love we have for our children we will naturally cling to hope even where there is none. Despite being a doctor I find it impossible to objectively medically assess my own children, because I'm their Daddy, not their doctor.
Secondly, doctors and nurses act in the best interests of their patients - not the parents, not the press, not some feral "army," not politicians, not the Pope, the PATIENT. The first line of the modern Hippocratic Oath is "Make the care of your patient your first concern." The staff at Alder Hey were working under incredibly difficult conditions even before a mob started accusing them of murder. Now their job is impossible.
Thirdly, Alfie Evans has an irreversible, catastrophic degenerative neurological disorder with no hope of recovery. The brain does not regenerate. Respiratory function and other basic physiological reflexes are literally, neurologically nothing whatsoever to do with sentience, consciousness or self awareness. Death, surrounded by those who love Alfie, peacefully, quietly, in dignity is in his best interests, this has been affirmed not just by his doctors but by the highest Court in the land. Having pictures of him in intensive care plastered all over the press, or being used as a political and religious football, or having people scream outside his hospital room is NOT in his best interests.
Finally, the behaviour of "Alfie's Army" is, to be frank, disgusting. Threatening doctors and nurses by name such that they fear for their lives is disgusting. Threatening to storm a children's hospital is disgusting. Threatening to pull fire alarms when other children are on the operating table having life saving surgery is worse than disgusting. Piggy-backing onto the grief of the parents of a baby you have never even met is flagrant grief tourism and an ultimate act of selfishness. Furthermore, veiling such aggressive and malignant behaviour behind a pretense of faith could not be further from what it means to be a Christian.
If you believe there is a conspiracy among the medical profession, or a cover up, or you believe parents own their children, or that the parents' feelings are more important than the dignity of their child, or if you are a member of Alfie's army then please do me a favour and remove yourself from my friends list.
God Bless you, Alfie.
Firstly, no child is the property of their parents. As parents our own anguish, emotion and needs are entirely and utterly secondary to the best interests of our children. We do not own them. We can't make demands on what happens to them like a piece of furniture. Furthermore, as parents we are naturally conflicted in deciding what is best for them in times of dire crisis. Because of the unconditional love we have for our children we will naturally cling to hope even where there is none. Despite being a doctor I find it impossible to objectively medically assess my own children, because I'm their Daddy, not their doctor.
Secondly, doctors and nurses act in the best interests of their patients - not the parents, not the press, not some feral "army," not politicians, not the Pope, the PATIENT. The first line of the modern Hippocratic Oath is "Make the care of your patient your first concern." The staff at Alder Hey were working under incredibly difficult conditions even before a mob started accusing them of murder. Now their job is impossible.
Thirdly, Alfie Evans has an irreversible, catastrophic degenerative neurological disorder with no hope of recovery. The brain does not regenerate. Respiratory function and other basic physiological reflexes are literally, neurologically nothing whatsoever to do with sentience, consciousness or self awareness. Death, surrounded by those who love Alfie, peacefully, quietly, in dignity is in his best interests, this has been affirmed not just by his doctors but by the highest Court in the land. Having pictures of him in intensive care plastered all over the press, or being used as a political and religious football, or having people scream outside his hospital room is NOT in his best interests.
Finally, the behaviour of "Alfie's Army" is, to be frank, disgusting. Threatening doctors and nurses by name such that they fear for their lives is disgusting. Threatening to storm a children's hospital is disgusting. Threatening to pull fire alarms when other children are on the operating table having life saving surgery is worse than disgusting. Piggy-backing onto the grief of the parents of a baby you have never even met is flagrant grief tourism and an ultimate act of selfishness. Furthermore, veiling such aggressive and malignant behaviour behind a pretense of faith could not be further from what it means to be a Christian.
If you believe there is a conspiracy among the medical profession, or a cover up, or you believe parents own their children, or that the parents' feelings are more important than the dignity of their child, or if you are a member of Alfie's army then please do me a favour and remove yourself from my friends list.
God Bless you, Alfie.
BlackLabel said:
If the authorities can close a whole hospital wing and large sections of the car park at St-Mary’s to protect the privacy of Kate, William and their baby why could something similar not have taken place in Liverpool in order to force the protesters away from the hospital site.
Excellent point.techiedave said:
BlackLabel said:
It was the same situation with Charlie Gard - foreign bible bashers allowed to incite hatred against medics, the NHS, the government etc.
Also, surely more should have been done to curb the intimidation and abuse from the protesters. If the authorities can close a whole hospital wing and large sections of the car park at St-Mary’s to protect the privacy of Kate, William and their baby why could something similar not have taken place in Liverpool in order to force the protesters away from the hospital site.
My guess - too sensitive.Also, surely more should have been done to curb the intimidation and abuse from the protesters. If the authorities can close a whole hospital wing and large sections of the car park at St-Mary’s to protect the privacy of Kate, William and their baby why could something similar not have taken place in Liverpool in order to force the protesters away from the hospital site.
Police didn't dare risk it. Easier to sacrifice some medical staff to the hatred of the mob than too dispel the mob. I suspect many police officers will have despaired at the events but some senior ones will have had to decide whether it was worth risking a near riot to adopt a stricter stance.
They can however do the right thing now and totally go after the s
t stirrers on facebook and they should do so. It will make others think in future and make people realise that posting does have consequences.I was following this through the week and its why I don't buy into" stabby daddy as victim too" bulls
t being put up, I read a lot of posts on FB that came from medical staff asking for some respect and the replies were totally off the scale vile. I read some posts from people visiting patients and again the responses were vile. Every time Evans popped up giving yet another interview it went worse. He is massively responsible for this and until he realises this and apologies (which he won't) then he can do one.
I suspect there is a lot that the hospital could say about his conduct but won't.
There is also an Uncle involved who whilst seeming to be quite young posted up a lot of stuff. It was all done to force the hospital to allow the parents to do what they wanted. Make no mistake and be under no illusion this was intimidation on a scale not seen at a hospital before.
There are victim here they are the nursing staff who have been intimidated. They are relatives of other patients who have been made to feel unsafe and have endured added stress at very difficult times for them. They are the other patients who will have sensed the unease from their visiting relatives. Stabby daddy is WAY down the list.
His partner seems to have been very quiet throughout this she may just be more of a quiet or shy person but in all honesty I suspect that Evans senior hasn't been supportive of her and that's why I said earlier I doubt they will remain together.
Some, the types who have jumped on this train, are completely self absorbed. Their entire existence is about it revolving around them. You have thousands in this pity-show who are spreading their bile as far and wide as they can, on the news, social media, sending a million non biodegradable balloons in to the air whilst faux crying. These are me me me people. Arrest them and you'd be feeding this fuel, probably adding more intelligently challenged 'full time mummys' to the show.
You could imagine the new FB posts, 'now we're being arrested for trying to stop Alder Hey from covering up a murder'. Followed by 1001 posts from band wagon jumping misinformed Americans, sitting on their porches, taking a break from polishing their guns.
I don't know what the answer is, but I fully agree in as much that these people need outing for their actions, including the father. If not this risks being a can of worms, in as much that every time there is a terminally ill child parented by an entitled type this sort of s
t show shall follow. Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
For not the first time on this thread I'm in complete agreement with you TD. One thought I have on the above is that yes, these morons should feel the arm of the law, yet by doing so would probably be counter productive, and the Police know it.
Some, the types who have jumped on this train, are completely self absorbed. Their entire existence is about it revolving around them. You have thousands in this pity-show who are spreading their bile as far and wide as they can, on the news, social media, sending a million non biodegradable balloons in to the air whilst faux crying. These are me me me people. Arrest them and you'd be feeding this fuel, probably adding more intelligently challenged 'full time mummys' to the show.
You could imagine the new FB posts, 'now we're being arrested for trying to stop Alder Hey from covering up a murder'. Followed by 1001 posts from band wagon jumping misinformed Americans, sitting on their porches, taking a break from polishing their guns.
I don't know what the answer is, but I fully agree in as much that these people need outing for their actions, including the father. If not this risks being a can of worms, in as much that every time there is a terminally ill child parented by an entitled type this sort of st show shall follow.
Agree with all that. Only problem is there is no talking to these people, no hope of them being taught. Any action would be 'evidence' that they were right all along. Is taking action against them worth the hassle?Some, the types who have jumped on this train, are completely self absorbed. Their entire existence is about it revolving around them. You have thousands in this pity-show who are spreading their bile as far and wide as they can, on the news, social media, sending a million non biodegradable balloons in to the air whilst faux crying. These are me me me people. Arrest them and you'd be feeding this fuel, probably adding more intelligently challenged 'full time mummys' to the show.
You could imagine the new FB posts, 'now we're being arrested for trying to stop Alder Hey from covering up a murder'. Followed by 1001 posts from band wagon jumping misinformed Americans, sitting on their porches, taking a break from polishing their guns.
I don't know what the answer is, but I fully agree in as much that these people need outing for their actions, including the father. If not this risks being a can of worms, in as much that every time there is a terminally ill child parented by an entitled type this sort of s
t show shall follow. Such a shame that the sad situation of a little boy dying is hijacked like this. As always, utmost respect to the doctors and nurses who had to work under this most repugnant kind of pressure .
That doctor has replied to comments on his Facebook post:
Doctor said:
Thank you to the 200 or so people who have sent beautiful private messages to me about this post. Especially those from parents who have been in similar circumstances themselves.
I have had a few very offensive messages from members of Alfie’s Army, which kind of proves the point I was making. Comments such as “our children ARE our property!” or “of course I bloody own my children, I made them!” are quite staggering. The idea that a parent can consider their child a piece of property is astounding, and not in a good way. Also, the mention of “lethal injections” displays a lack of even the most basic level of understanding of what medicines are and how they work.
For the avoidance of doubt, my post does not say children are the property of the state, or the government, or the hospital. Children are NOT property, in any way. That’s the whole point. They are individuals who belong to themselves, with equal rights to any other person. Where they are incapable of expressing their own will or making their own decisions (as in this case) then everyone must work together to act in the best interests of the child. Where there is a dispute over what those best interests are, then the dispute is resolved by the family division of the courts. This is why the courts exist, to arbitrate disputes.
Thanks again to all of you who have messaged me. I haven’t replied to anyone, but to the vast majority of people sending kind messages, thank you. To the minority of people who have sent poorly spelled abusive messages, I consider your view that children are property or that their life needs to be sustained at the cost of their dignity and best interests for religious reasons to be quite backward and wholly abhorrent.
Alfie has sadly passed away since I originally posted. He is now free from all this and I sincerely hope he rests in peace.
I have had a few very offensive messages from members of Alfie’s Army, which kind of proves the point I was making. Comments such as “our children ARE our property!” or “of course I bloody own my children, I made them!” are quite staggering. The idea that a parent can consider their child a piece of property is astounding, and not in a good way. Also, the mention of “lethal injections” displays a lack of even the most basic level of understanding of what medicines are and how they work.
For the avoidance of doubt, my post does not say children are the property of the state, or the government, or the hospital. Children are NOT property, in any way. That’s the whole point. They are individuals who belong to themselves, with equal rights to any other person. Where they are incapable of expressing their own will or making their own decisions (as in this case) then everyone must work together to act in the best interests of the child. Where there is a dispute over what those best interests are, then the dispute is resolved by the family division of the courts. This is why the courts exist, to arbitrate disputes.
Thanks again to all of you who have messaged me. I haven’t replied to anyone, but to the vast majority of people sending kind messages, thank you. To the minority of people who have sent poorly spelled abusive messages, I consider your view that children are property or that their life needs to be sustained at the cost of their dignity and best interests for religious reasons to be quite backward and wholly abhorrent.
Alfie has sadly passed away since I originally posted. He is now free from all this and I sincerely hope he rests in peace.
It seems that questions are being asked about the money that's been raised... Will it go to Alder Hey or will the parents use it
Some interesting comments
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/sarah-evan...
Some interesting comments
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/sarah-evan...
Andy-SP2 said:
It seems that questions are being asked about the money that's been raised... Will it go to Alder Hey or will the parents use it
Some interesting comments
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/sarah-evan...
It’s hilarious that they are only just questioning what happens to the money now rather than before they pushed the donate button.Some interesting comments
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/sarah-evan...
Of course the parents will use it. Some people were even donating directly to a paypal account in the family name. Idiots the lot of them.
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