Possible attack in Canada - van / truck into pedestrians

[steveT350C]

Freedom of speech, the thought police and jokecrimes....

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/count-dankul...

[wc98]

Gameface said:

Gareth1974 said:

Neither did I, so I googled some of the terms and they are explained here

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and...

fking hell.

not just me then. wtf is that all about !

[amusingduck]

Raygun said:

Gary29 said:

Here's one to ponder....do you think that if the internet had never existed, this attack and possibly a good few others would never have happened?

Edited by Gary29 on Tuesday 24th April 13:46

Most defintely, the internet started out as a wonderful thing unfortunately a bad element have used it to their advantage. Too much recently. Time for the world wide web to have a huge factory reset and only vetted websites allowed back on there. Would that be possible?

Absolutely, unequivocally not.

Why the fk would PH be allowed on the vetted internet? Apply a modicum of thought and the logical end result is crystal clear. Governments win, big business wins, and the average joe has his voice taken away from him.

FRO with that st!

[Henners]

2xChevrons said:

desolate said:

At this stage I wouldn't believe that anymore than an attempt to get an Islamic angle.
Can't be a real thing, can it?

Find a copy of Elliot Rogers' 'manifesto' and you'll get the perfect insight into these people. It's a combination of extreme toxic masculinity, narcissism, self-entitlement and genuine mental illnesses. But the mindset it generates and the sheer level of misogynistic rage it can create in people is horrific. Mostly because, as mentioned up-thread, the online world forms these self-reinforcing bubbles where socially-awkward teenage guys who feel they're being left behind relationship-wise get told that they're doomed never to have sex because shallow

females

will reject them because their wrists are too narrow or some BS like that. Then they all try to out-do each other with murder/rape fantasies about how they're going to either 'get what's rightfully theirs' or 'punish the world for abandoning us' until one of them actually goes out and does it.

You'd almost feel sorry for them because they clearly need some sort of intervention or help...then they back-slap each other about things like this happening and my ember of sympathy snuffs out completely.

Don’t forget crywking, lots of crywking.

InCels are creepy as hell, a very busy ‘site’ was closed down because someone was pretending to be a woman and asking ‘what investigations would be done if I were to be raped, could the rapist get away with it...’.

Yup, was a guy doing research...

A level of rage so intense many things are possible. All because of ‘Chad’.

[Goaty Bill 2]

Raygun said:

Gary29 said:

Here's one to ponder....do you think that if the internet had never existed, this attack and possibly a good few others would never have happened?

Most defintely, the internet started out as a wonderful thing unfortunately a bad element have used it to their advantage. Too much recently. Time for the world wide web to have a huge factory reset and only vetted websites allowed back on there. Would that be possible?

More than a few people said the similar things about the printing press.

[DanielSan]

Raygun said:

Most defintely, the internet started out as a wonderful thing unfortunately a bad element have used it to their advantage. Too much recently. Time for the world wide web to have a huge factory reset and only vetted websites allowed back on there. Would that be possible?

Just move to China or North Korea, job done already....

[Halmyre]

Brother D said:

kev1974 said:

Great work that they have arrested the driver rather than shooting him dead or letting him shoot himself dead.

He can expect some pretty heavy justice I expect.

There is absolutely zero chance that guy would not be dead if that happened in the USA. (Might be because the perps fairly often are themselves armed) but still, good training/restraint by the officer(s) involved.

Canada's neighbour can't understand why the assailant isn't dead:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43876772

[anonymous-user]

wc98 said:

Gameface said:

Gareth1974 said:

Neither did I, so I googled some of the terms and they are explained here

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and...

fking hell.

not just me then. wtf is that all about !

If this really is a "thing" when does it become a movement responsible for terrorism?
Unbelievable stuff.

[2xChevrons]

desolate said:

If this really is a "thing" when does it become a movement responsible for terrorism?
Unbelievable stuff.

As much as it makes you despair at the world, it is a "thing". Since terrorism is "use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create fear to achieve a financial, political, religious or ideological aim" then the movement is about as valid as a terrorist organisation as any.

The recruitment and radicalisation techniques are pretty much the same as ISIS, or any other extremist political movement - target angry young men with limited prospects and a degree of social ostracism and present them with an enemy (in this case, all women and around 10 per cent of men), then feed them bullst to both explain how the enemy is the cause of their perceived failure and that violent reprisal against them is the only way to right the wrong. Offer them martyrs (Elliot Roger) and normalise increasingly violent fantasies and rhetoric. Shut down and insult anyone who shows any signs of either deviating from the ideology or extracting themselves from it. Keep turning the screws until someone drives a van into a crowd - even the method is (unfortunately) familiar. The only difference is that there isn't a central organisation or leadership. It's just an internet community of shut-ins bonded together by mutual self-loathing and a superhuman inability to get laid.

As Henners said, they used to hang out on subreddit, but that got closed down earlier this year because it became a steaming slurry pit of violent misogyny, pedophilia and suicide ideation. They were too much, even for Reddit. So they upped sticks to some other discussion board platform to congratulate each other on how much they hate women, cry about how they'll never have sex and (it would seem) encourage someone to drive a van into a crowd of people in Toronto.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 24th April 22:48

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 24th April 22:50

[anonymous-user]

2xChevrons said:

Interesting Stuff - thanks

No one seems interested.

[JagLover]

2xChevrons said:

As much as it makes you despair at the world, it is a "thing". Since terrorism is "use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create fear to achieve a financial, political, religious or ideological aim" then the movement is about as valid as a terrorist organisation as any.

The recruitment and radicalisation techniques are pretty much the same as ISIS, or any other extremist political movement - target angry young men with limited prospects and a degree of social ostracism and present them with an enemy (in this case, all women and around 10 per cent of men), then feed them bullst to both explain how the enemy is the cause of their perceived failure and that violent reprisal against them is the only way to right the wrong. Offer them martyrs (Elliot Roger) and normalise increasingly violent fantasies and rhetoric. Shut down and insult anyone who shows any signs of either deviating from the ideology or extracting themselves from it. Keep turning the screws until someone drives a van into a crowd - even the method is (unfortunately) familiar. The only difference is that there isn't a central organisation or leadership. It's just an internet community of shut-ins bonded together by mutual self-loathing and a superhuman inability to get laid.

As Henners said, they used to hang out on subreddit, but that got closed down earlier this year because it became a steaming slurry pit of violent misogyny, pedophilia and suicide ideation. They were too much, even for Reddit. So they upped sticks to some other discussion board platform to congratulate each other on how much they hate women, cry about how they'll never have sex and (it would seem) encourage someone to drive a van into a crowd of people in Toronto.

Some very interesting posts on this thread 2Xchevrons

Personally I think that sex has a profound impact on the male brain and lack of sex likewise.

Japan is another culture where a large proportion of young men go without sex and that also has some weird sub cultures.

Solutions?, no easy ones. Definitely prostitution shouldn't be illegal as it may be the only way many of these men will get any. From a broader societal perspective men and women should be held to the same standards in terms of social attitudes to their private lives. Also I think it is very important that young men gain proper social skills and interact with women.

Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 25th April 07:51

[amusingduck]

JagLover said:

Some very interesting posts on this thread 2Xchevrons

Personally I think that sex has a profound impact on the male brain and lack of sex likewise.

Japan is another culture where a large proportion of young men go without sex and that also has some from weird sub cultures.

Solutions?, no easy ones. Definitely prostitution shouldn't be illegal as it may be the only way many of these men will get any. From a broader societal perspective men and women should be held to the same standards in terms of social attitudes to their private lives. Also I think it is very important that young men gain proper social skills and interact with women.

In the UK, it isn't. AFAIK, Brothels aren't allowed, and standing on street corners etc, but prostitution itself is perfectly legal. I was surprised to learn that, I had always assumed it was completely illegal.

[amusingduck]

Halmyre said:

Brother D said:

kev1974 said:

Great work that they have arrested the driver rather than shooting him dead or letting him shoot himself dead.

He can expect some pretty heavy justice I expect.

There is absolutely zero chance that guy would not be dead if that happened in the USA. (Might be because the perps fairly often are themselves armed) but still, good training/restraint by the officer(s) involved.

Canada's neighbour can't understand why the assailant isn't dead:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43876772

Fantastic work by that officer!

[Gecko1978]

so if I have this right. This chap killed a load of people in a cowardly way because women don't fancy him.....so he thought this might make him more attractive...hmmm

AFAIK men have rights and we are not subjugated but in order for equality to work we need to make the best of thoes rights. So perhaps instead of talking to other loosers on the web maybe go out to bars clubs the gym work place etc meet people talk to them make friends an then form a relationship.

I thought it was simple , never have I thought yeah best start killing that will get me a girlfriend.....most of them thoughts came once I was marrier....lol

[2xChevrons]

JagLover said:

Personally I think that sex has a profound impact on the male brain and lack of sex likewise.

Japan is another culture where a large proportion of young men go without sex and that also has some weird sub cultures.

Solutions?, no easy ones. Definitely prostitution shouldn't be illegal as it may be the only way many of these men will get any. From a broader societal perspective men and women should be held to the same standards in terms of social attitudes to their private lives. Also I think it is very important that young men gain proper social skills and interact with women.

Gecko1978 said:

so if I have this right. This chap killed a load of people in a cowardly way because women don't fancy him.....so he thought this might make him more attractive...hmmm

AFAIK men have rights and we are not subjugated but in order for equality to work we need to make the best of thoes rights. So perhaps instead of talking to other loosers on the web maybe go out to bars clubs the gym work place etc meet people talk to them make friends an then form a relationship.

I thought it was simple , never have I thought yeah best start killing that will get me a girlfriend.....most of them thoughts came once I was marrier....lol

Incels aren't trying to get girlfriends or sexual partners. They're not just dudes who struggle with relationships (although they start that way...it's like the larval stage). These are people who are so broken-brained that they firmly believe that they will *never* have sex and that the world and especially the women in it, are too blame. Elliot Roger and Alek Minassian didn't commit mass murder to try and make themselves more attractive, but to lash out at those who, in their warped minds, are wronging them.

They are (incredibly) even weirder and scarier than Pick Up Artists, who 'just' objectify women and use skeevy pop-psych techniques to try and get them to sleep with them. They just straight-up hate women for not giving them the attention they feel they're entitled to. They don't try and become better people or make themselves more attractive (doing so is strongly discouraged because it's playing into womenkind's game...), they just stew in their collective misogyny and draw it out to violent extremes.

Have you heard of 'red pill' in the context of modern masculinity? It comes from The Matrix, obviously, but the term was re-coined by the Mens' Rights Movement. In the film taking the red pill lets Neo see the world as it really is. MRAs say that they have been 'redpilled' when they come to see that society is geared towards the benefit of women at the expense of men. It's nonsense of course, but there it is.

Incels literally go one step further. They use the term 'black pill'. The 'redpilled' MRAs, as sleezy and comically wrong as they usually are, want to live their lives on their own terms, and that includes finding and maintaining relationships with women. To the black pill crowd even this is pointless because they (with the help of their toxic 'community') have come to hate themselves so much that they believe that not only is there no way they will ever have a relationship (or even just a sexual partner) but that it's because society (mainly women) actively loathes them. Which it does, but it's because they're rage-filled, rape-plotting sociopaths who drive vans into innocent crowds, rather than because they're not perfect clones of Brad Pitt, which is what they think the reason is.

Remember when you were 14 or 15, and everyone at your secondary school was getting girlfriends and you couldn't? And all the 'popular' kids were (apparently) hooking up? Ever have a train of thought that went "Why do girls only go for shallow rugby-playing meatheads? They should go out with intelligent, sensitive, nice guys like me. Urgh, they're so shallow ***thinks about breasts for the 10th time that minute***"?

Of course you think this because hormone-addled teenagers are the dumbest creatures on Earth and you have no social references other than your equally-stupid peer group and mass media which hugely distorts what actual relationships are like. Very quickly, and with a few embarrassing rejections and failures along the way, you realise that:

a) nearly all the people who claimed to be having sex when they were 14 were lying.
b) the reason why the 'meatheads' got the girls was because they were the ones confident enough to talk to them.
c) people find all sorts of different people attractive. You (of either gender) don't have to be a stunning model to find a mutual attraction.

Now imagine you have no social circle and you spend every waking hour on the internet, have low self-esteem and (probably) undiagnosed depression, social anxiety and (probably) some sort of male body dysmorphia. All of which are made worse by you being lonely and feeling like you're falling further and further behind your non-existent peer group because they're all out there living lives that you only know about from sitcoms, anime and pornography. You're never going to grow out of the mental and emotional space of being a 14-year old because you've never stepped beyond that point in your social development. Then you find a group of people on the internet in the same situation and BINGO! you have incels.

JagLover said:

Some very interesting posts on this thread 2Xchevrons

Personally I think that sex has a profound impact on the male brain and lack of sex likewise.

Japan is another culture where a large proportion of young men go without sex and that also has some weird sub cultures.

Solutions?, no easy ones. Definitely prostitution shouldn't be illegal as it may be the only way many of these men will get any. From a broader societal perspective men and women should be held to the same standards in terms of social attitudes to their private lives. Also I think it is very important that young men gain proper social skills and interact with women.

I don't think it's a case of the 'male brain'. A lack of emotional and physical affection wreaks havoc on people whether they're men or women. The difference is that society generally ties sexual prowess to male identity in a way that it doesn't for women. There is pressure on men (especially young men and adolescents) to have sexual experience, and lots of it, to an often unrealistic degree. You have to be very comfortable in your own skin to never, ever feel that you're not measuring up or that all your friends are having better sex lives than you. And if it's not your friends that you're judging yourself against then there's plenty of media out there to give you a warped idea of exactly how much sex you should be having. It takes good social and emotional education and experience to block that out, especially in your teens/20s. A lot of incels are frothing mad that they're doomed to be virgins forever because they haven't had sex (or a girlfriend) by the time they're 16. None of this helps their crippling self-loathing which they turn outwards onto women.

Prostitution is not the answer here. If incels just wanted to have sex it might be but the 'black pill' means they've gone beyond wanting to have sex with women. At the very least they want women to want them, and having to pay a sex worker to sleep with them will just prove to them how they're social rejects and how women are spurning them. And some have moved on to just plain up wanting to kill women. Hence the van attack.

I've really spent far too much time on a gorgeous spring morning talking about this sad people, but it's a combination of horrific goulish freakshow and the extreme manifestation of some interesting social problems. I'm going to sit in the garden and finish my article about modifying Jaguar XKs. Perhaps I'll take the 2CV for a spin in the afternoon with the roof rolled back or take the kayak for a trip on the River Nene in the evening. I need a mental palette cleanser.

[Butter Face]

Good explanation 2xC, very eye opening as to how these nutters think. Humans are weird.

[JagLover]

bloomen said:

JagLover said:

Personally I think that sex has a profound impact on the male brain and lack of sex likewise.

Utter bilge. There's no necessity to have sex whatsoever. There've been periods where I haven't had sex for several years, and others where it's been as many times as possible per day. At no point did I feel any different in myself.

Where sex can have a giant impact is how one relates to the rest of the world and your own self worth. If you start to dwell on why you're not getting any then that could easily send you into a cycle of self loathing which is then projected onto women and other men.

It's all emotional. None of it is physical.

All these people seem to be primarily obsessed with looks when more than likely their actual appearance is more than fine. It's their personalities that are overwhelmingly repulsive.

In your opinion

Depression is often treated as a chemical imbalance and sex has a large chemical impact on the brain.
It usually results in the release of Dopamine. It can also reduce tendency to suffer depression and even reduce blood pressure, reduce stress, and make you calmer.

http://www.health.com/sex/8-ways-sex-affects-your-...

[AJL308]

Gameface said:

Gareth1974 said:

Neither did I, so I googled some of the terms and they are explained here

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and...

fking hell.

Double fking hell!!! That's about as bat-st crazy as anything I've ever read.

It's also totally wrong. Women, including really attractive ones, are far less interested in a man's looks than men are in women's. I'm no oil painting by any stretch of the imagination but have been out with some really attractive women (many half my age) over the past 18 months or so. What these guys are completely failing to realise is the fact that, actually, good looking (or any) women really don't like going out and having sex with guys who are basically weird, insecure, creepy s who treat women like st!

I sincerely hope this guy has a really, really stty rest of his life in prison.

[AJL308]

Hoofy said:

TTwiggy said:

Gameface said:

Gareth1974 said:

Neither did I, so I googled some of the terms and they are explained here

http://haenfler.sites.grinnell.edu/subcultures-and...

fking hell.

Indeed. But not a million miles away from some of the views you'll find expressed on here.

I think that's a bit unfair. I can only speak for myself - I spent a few years being single but I didn't kick up a fuss about it, I still supported feminism (as in equal rights for all) and just got on with life. Sure, it sucks a bit in summer when you see couples in parks etc but that is it. These guys forming this "movement" have some kind of angry mental disorder and probably ought to seek help.

Or be involuntarily sectioned! Presumably then they be "Insects"???

[AJL308]

Gary29 said:

Here's one to ponder....do you think that if the internet had never existed, this attack and possibly a good few others would never have happened?

Edited by Gary29 on Tuesday 24th April 13:46

I've always thought that in relation to school shootings and suchlike. I'm firmly convinced that the reason they are so common is the massive publicity they and their perpetrators get. I don't know what you can do about it though.