Just can’t get the shipbuilders nowadays.....
Discussion
Lord Marylebone said:
I was talking to a very well respected engine builder and tuner of vehicles today, and he stated categorically "Any parts made in Britain are complete s
te'".
.
Only if you're buying ste'". .
te parts. He probably gets Chinese stuff from his suppliers. Plenty of high end parts are designed and made in the UK and used by OEMs internationally.
Lord Marylebone said:
Doesn't surprise me.
We can't even design or make car parts properly, nevermind build a ship.
I was talking to a very well respected engine builder and tuner of vehicles today, and he stated categorically "Any parts made in Britain are complete ste'".
Things like turbos, manifolds, exhausts, intercoolers, brake calipers, pistons, rods, injectors. That kind of thing.
He only buys parts from Japan and the US now, as he's experienced nothing but 'junk' from
UK manufacturers.
I think the issue is that "you get what you pay for". Customers keep wanting the moon on a stick for the lowest cost possible and, eventually, something has to give.We can't even design or make car parts properly, nevermind build a ship.
I was talking to a very well respected engine builder and tuner of vehicles today, and he stated categorically "Any parts made in Britain are complete s
te'". Things like turbos, manifolds, exhausts, intercoolers, brake calipers, pistons, rods, injectors. That kind of thing.
He only buys parts from Japan and the US now, as he's experienced nothing but 'junk' from
UK manufacturers.
I used to work for an organisation where department heads were required to make 5% savings year on year. There's only so far you can go until something has to give and quality control tends to be high up on the list of things that can be skimped on. The stupid thing was you would then end up spending more on rectification that if you'd checked the bloody things in the first place.
Countdown said:
I think the issue is that "you get what you pay for". Customers keep wanting the moon on a stick for the lowest cost possible and, eventually, something has to give.
I used to work for an organisation where department heads were required to make 5% savings year on year. There's only so far you can go until something has to give and quality control tends to be high up on the list of things that can be skimped on. The stupid thing was you would then end up spending more on rectification that if you'd checked the bloody things in the first place.
Yup also a problem. Same as cutting staff to save money or increase overheads. Its stupidI used to work for an organisation where department heads were required to make 5% savings year on year. There's only so far you can go until something has to give and quality control tends to be high up on the list of things that can be skimped on. The stupid thing was you would then end up spending more on rectification that if you'd checked the bloody things in the first place.
Lord Marylebone said:
Doesn't surprise me.
We can't even design or make car parts properly, nevermind build a ship.
I was talking to a very well respected engine builder and tuner of vehicles today, and he stated categorically "Any parts made in Britain are complete ste'".
Things like turbos, manifolds, exhausts, intercoolers, brake calipers, pistons, rods, injectors. That kind of thing.
He only buys parts from Japan and the US now, as he's experienced nothing but 'junk' from
UK manufacturers.
Seems strange that he gets the parts from the U. S and Japan. What type of engines does he work on, what manufacturers' engines? We can't even design or make car parts properly, nevermind build a ship.
I was talking to a very well respected engine builder and tuner of vehicles today, and he stated categorically "Any parts made in Britain are complete s
te'". Things like turbos, manifolds, exhausts, intercoolers, brake calipers, pistons, rods, injectors. That kind of thing.
He only buys parts from Japan and the US now, as he's experienced nothing but 'junk' from
UK manufacturers.
Lord.Vader said:
Hmm considering some of the worlds leading defence, space and aerospace parts / components / deliverables are built in the Uk I can’t agree.
I work and assess industrial businesses all over the world and generally the UK ones are the best.
Is that true?I work and assess industrial businesses all over the world and generally the UK ones are the best.
I have no real knowledge of the sectors but have always wondered how the "Made in Britain" rolleyes can sit with all the F1 suppliers, Rolls Royce and Thales Govan who are half a mile from me.
Jonesy23 said:
Most Russian hardware was pretty crude stuff. Not so much simple in design as a positive feature as just often very poorly made and designed making allowance for that. Newer stuff may be better.
The reason you wouldn't hear about their cost overruns and problems (which did and do exist as with any complex project) is partially because it wouldn't suit the people who write stories about these things to mention it and partially because the Russian state had and has a vigorous approach to dealing with people who talk when they shouldn't.
"If you can't built it better, build it bigger."The reason you wouldn't hear about their cost overruns and problems (which did and do exist as with any complex project) is partially because it wouldn't suit the people who write stories about these things to mention it and partially because the Russian state had and has a vigorous approach to dealing with people who talk when they shouldn't.
The Vambo said:
Lord.Vader said:
Hmm considering some of the worlds leading defence, space and aerospace parts / components / deliverables are built in the Uk I can’t agree.
I work and assess industrial businesses all over the world and generally the UK ones are the best.
Is that true?I work and assess industrial businesses all over the world and generally the UK ones are the best.
I have no real knowledge of the sectors but have always wondered how the "Made in Britain" rolleyes can sit with all the F1 suppliers, Rolls Royce and
frankenstein12 said:
It seems to be the same across the board as well. Business Management etc. No emphasis on logic or common sense instead it is all about following the process.
One of my jobs is to check the designs for errors. Many's the time I've advised a problem, proposed a workable solution & had a several week delay before receiving an unworkable answer, even though even to my simple mind the answer is both obvious & supplied to them.They seem to get paid regardless of whether their work is adequate or abysmal. Perhaps this needs to change in order to bring about improvement.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Japanese cars.Mostly Nissan GTR's, Evo's that kind of thing. He's been at it for years.
He currently owns a Nissan GTR that he built from the ground up and it was the fastest in Europe back in 2016.
He tests that many components on his own cars that it's staggering, never mind all the parts bought by customers and fitted by him then Dyno tested, so he's seen hundreds of different parts made by different companies all over the world.
He's an absolute no nonsense guy, and will brand something 'complete s
te' if there is even the slightest design or quality flaw in it, and sadly he says most of the engine tuning parts made here are crap.The Americans and Japanese make far better stuff.
cymtriks said:
On the other hand consider how many people over how many years have been involved in the F135.
Then consider how utterly different it is from every other aircraft.
Then consider how it has to outperform everything else it comes up against
Consider all the testing, analysis, redesigns, training, tooling, manuals, etc
Now spread those costs over a short production run
If you ask a contractor to deliver something just short of impossible they'll charge you the going rate for just short of impossible.
Just to give you a feel for some defence jobs I'm currently in the 15th month of analysis of a pipe. Yes, that's right, a pipe. Though the pipe itself is fairly simple the consequences of design changes are extremely complex. It bolts onto lots of other bits that are extremely complex. The number of people who understand each of those bits is very small.
Another example, bolts. Some bolts are very ordinary, some are very odd (made from very expensive alloys, a special shape and require tooling costing hundreds of thousands to fit). I have been involved with several bolts that are very odd. Analysis of bolts, patterns of bolts, failure of bolts, fatigue life of bolts has taken many years of my working life. The cost per bolt is utterly frightening and may look like someone is "taking the piss" but it is actually a reflection of them being very odd bolts.
"Consider all the testing"Then consider how utterly different it is from every other aircraft.
Then consider how it has to outperform everything else it comes up against
Consider all the testing, analysis, redesigns, training, tooling, manuals, etc
Now spread those costs over a short production run
If you ask a contractor to deliver something just short of impossible they'll charge you the going rate for just short of impossible.
Just to give you a feel for some defence jobs I'm currently in the 15th month of analysis of a pipe. Yes, that's right, a pipe. Though the pipe itself is fairly simple the consequences of design changes are extremely complex. It bolts onto lots of other bits that are extremely complex. The number of people who understand each of those bits is very small.
Another example, bolts. Some bolts are very ordinary, some are very odd (made from very expensive alloys, a special shape and require tooling costing hundreds of thousands to fit). I have been involved with several bolts that are very odd. Analysis of bolts, patterns of bolts, failure of bolts, fatigue life of bolts has taken many years of my working life. The cost per bolt is utterly frightening and may look like someone is "taking the piss" but it is actually a reflection of them being very odd bolts.
As a resident F35 naysayer, may I point out they haven't actually "tested" anything of the airframe and systems of even the BASIC go to war aircraft!!
Testing was deferred to get the program back on track many years ago.
That didn't work either.
hidetheelephants said:
The Vambo said:
Lord.Vader said:
Hmm considering some of the worlds leading defence, space and aerospace parts / components / deliverables are built in the Uk I can’t agree.
I work and assess industrial businesses all over the world and generally the UK ones are the best.
Is that true?I work and assess industrial businesses all over the world and generally the UK ones are the best.
I have no real knowledge of the sectors but have always wondered how the "Made in Britain" rolleyes can sit with all the F1 suppliers, Rolls Royce and
Kccv23highliftcam said:
"Consider all the testing"
As a resident F35 naysayer, may I point out they haven't actually "tested" anything of the airframe and systems of even the BASIC go to war aircraft!!
Testing was deferred to get the program back on track many years ago.
That didn't work either.
Don't you mean ' early testing showed deficiencies so they delayed further tests they could then see it would fall until it had a chance of passing them '?As a resident F35 naysayer, may I point out they haven't actually "tested" anything of the airframe and systems of even the BASIC go to war aircraft!!
Testing was deferred to get the program back on track many years ago.
That didn't work either.
frankenstein12 said:
Countdown said:
I think the issue is that "you get what you pay for". Customers keep wanting the moon on a stick for the lowest cost possible and, eventually, something has to give.
I used to work for an organisation where department heads were required to make 5% savings year on year. There's only so far you can go until something has to give and quality control tends to be high up on the list of things that can be skimped on. The stupid thing was you would then end up spending more on rectification that if you'd checked the bloody things in the first place.
Yup also a problem. Same as cutting staff to save money or increase overheads. Its stupidI used to work for an organisation where department heads were required to make 5% savings year on year. There's only so far you can go until something has to give and quality control tends to be high up on the list of things that can be skimped on. The stupid thing was you would then end up spending more on rectification that if you'd checked the bloody things in the first place.
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