The new US-Mexico border migrant policy.
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
I am sadly not surprised by the callous lack of humanity on display in this thread. N,P&E can sometimes be a cesspit of the worst of humanity, and it too often is. Those who think that all of this is no big deal should tune in to some across the board coverage from serious US TV news channels. Hell, even Walmart are condemning what is happening.
But but but it's the same policy nothing has changed, the democrats did it, it's just liberal tears, etc.I join you in not being surprised by both the content of the posts and by the forum names of those posting in support of this monstrous policy.
Approximately 90 seconds is required to educate yourself adequately about what is happening here. Probably less time than it takes to type a reply on this thread.
For the hard of Googling and the pay wall complainers (do they all work for free, I wonder?), here's the WP -
Today's WorldView
Edited by Max J. Rosenthal and Ruby Mellen
BY ISHAAN THAROOR
Trump turns to Europe's far right as he detains Latin American children
A popular explanation of President Trump's politics argues that his success has less to do with ideology than personality. After all, the real estate tycoon-turned-reality television star is accustomed to wearing different hats. He has changed his party affiliation and can shift his views for the sake of expediency and self-aggrandizement. When the outside world expresses bafflement with the president's decision-making, insiders and political reporters point out his impatience, his impulsiveness and his preference for gut instinct over strategy.
But this week, we're seeing Trump's core political ideas come into focus. The administration's decision to forcibly separate thousands of migrant children from their families along the U.S.-Mexico border has turned into a political showdown. Lawmakers from both parties have decried the policy, which Trump falsely pins on his opponents. On Tuesday, Mexico's foreign minister deemed the separations “cruel and inhumane.”
“The Trump administration implemented this policy by choice and could end it by choice. No law or court ruling mandates family separations,” noted The Washington Post's Fact Checker. “In fact, during its first 15 months, the Trump administration released nearly 100,000 immigrants who were apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border, a total that includes more than 37,500 unaccompanied minors and more than 61,000 family members.”
Trump, though, has dug in, rejecting criticism of his actions and seeking to leverage the detained children's plight to get Democrats on board with legislation that will fund his long-desired wall along the Mexican border. But he didn't stop there.
On Tuesday, Trump tweeted a warning about “illegal immigrants” infesting the nation. It was a jarring, dehumanizing phrase that echoed the remarks he made last month calling immigrants who are alleged criminals “animals.” He continued to claim that immigrants automatically cause crime, lying about German crime statistics to bolster his case. And he warned during a speech that the supposed threat of migration must be kept at bay.
“The United States will not be a migrant camp, and it will not be a refugee holding facility,” Trump said. “You look at what’s happening in Europe, you look at what’s happening in other places. We can’t allow that to happen to the United States. Not on my watch.”
Readers of Today's WorldView are well aware that this is perhaps the most consistent line of argument offered by the president, reaching all the way to his campaign for the White House. Trump has repeatedly invoked the xenophobic talking points of Europe's far right and applied them to the United States, whipping up nativism in his base. And while his demagoguery on immigration may draw rebukes from various corners of the Republican establishment, Trump and his close advisers are not bothered, and the overwhelming majority of GOP lawmakers have thus far fallen into line.
The party has moved steadily to the right, embracing the blood-and-soil politics of the once-fringe European factions that erstwhile Trump adviser Stephen K. Bannon believes are forging “a brave new world.” Like their far-right counterparts in Germany, France and Italy, Trump's GOP is animated by a profound sense of grievance with the elite, a nationalism hostile to certain minorities in their midst and a climate of hysteria that rejects mainstream media and spreads conspiracy theories.
“People don’t turn out to say thank you,” said Corey Lewandowski, once Trump's campaign manager, to the New York Times, explicitly arguing that the scenes on the border would generate support for Trump. “If you want to get people motivated, you’ve got to give them a reason to vote. Saying ‘build the wall and stop illegals from coming in and killing American citizens’ gives them an important issue.”
A flurry of polls this week suggest that two-thirds of Americans oppose Trump's policy of separating migrant children from their parents. Nevertheless, only about a third of Republicans disagree with the measures — a sign of the political polarization that Trump has weaponized throughout his presidency.
A separate poll published this week also found a majority of Republicans harboring negative attitudes toward Muslims, who are also frequent targets of Trump’s fear-mongering. It found that some 20 percent of Americans “would deny Muslims who are American citizens the right to vote.”
Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that Trump is following through on the nativist agenda that defined his campaign. But it's less clear what lasting effects he may have on American society and democracy.
“The president is winning anytime the country is focused on immigration — polls and bad headlines be damned,” wrote McKay Coppins in the Atlantic, referring to the thinking of influential anti-immigrant White House adviser Stephen Miller. “His bet appears to be that voters will witness this showdown between Trump and his angry antagonists, and ultimately side with the president.”
That could still be a losing bet, but it has proved successful elsewhere. Italy’s new far-right interior minister, Matteo Salvini, came to power via a platform promising mass deportations of migrants. This week, he proposed a census of the country's Roma minority in a bid to deport those who are found not to be Italians. Chiara Gribaudo, a deputy from the center-left Democratic Party, told reporters that “the way is short from a census to a concentration camp” — yet Salvini and his party are only gaining in popularity (more on that below).
You could argue that that is hyperbole, but the specter of “concentration camps” looms over the American conversation, with accounts (and audio) of migrant children wailing behind chain fences now haunting the administration. On a friendly Fox News broadcast, Attorney General Jeff Sessions dismissed comparisons to a much darker era of internment and discrimination. “It’s a real exaggeration,” he said. “In Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country.”
“ ‘We aren’t exactly like the Nazis; we’re just separating children from their parents indefinitely and holding them in detention camps,’ ” Vox noted, “isn’t exactly a compelling brief for the Trump policy.” But it's certainly a sign of the times.
Today's WorldView
Edited by Max J. Rosenthal and Ruby Mellen
BY ISHAAN THAROOR
Trump turns to Europe's far right as he detains Latin American children
A popular explanation of President Trump's politics argues that his success has less to do with ideology than personality. After all, the real estate tycoon-turned-reality television star is accustomed to wearing different hats. He has changed his party affiliation and can shift his views for the sake of expediency and self-aggrandizement. When the outside world expresses bafflement with the president's decision-making, insiders and political reporters point out his impatience, his impulsiveness and his preference for gut instinct over strategy.
But this week, we're seeing Trump's core political ideas come into focus. The administration's decision to forcibly separate thousands of migrant children from their families along the U.S.-Mexico border has turned into a political showdown. Lawmakers from both parties have decried the policy, which Trump falsely pins on his opponents. On Tuesday, Mexico's foreign minister deemed the separations “cruel and inhumane.”
“The Trump administration implemented this policy by choice and could end it by choice. No law or court ruling mandates family separations,” noted The Washington Post's Fact Checker. “In fact, during its first 15 months, the Trump administration released nearly 100,000 immigrants who were apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border, a total that includes more than 37,500 unaccompanied minors and more than 61,000 family members.”
Trump, though, has dug in, rejecting criticism of his actions and seeking to leverage the detained children's plight to get Democrats on board with legislation that will fund his long-desired wall along the Mexican border. But he didn't stop there.
On Tuesday, Trump tweeted a warning about “illegal immigrants” infesting the nation. It was a jarring, dehumanizing phrase that echoed the remarks he made last month calling immigrants who are alleged criminals “animals.” He continued to claim that immigrants automatically cause crime, lying about German crime statistics to bolster his case. And he warned during a speech that the supposed threat of migration must be kept at bay.
“The United States will not be a migrant camp, and it will not be a refugee holding facility,” Trump said. “You look at what’s happening in Europe, you look at what’s happening in other places. We can’t allow that to happen to the United States. Not on my watch.”
Readers of Today's WorldView are well aware that this is perhaps the most consistent line of argument offered by the president, reaching all the way to his campaign for the White House. Trump has repeatedly invoked the xenophobic talking points of Europe's far right and applied them to the United States, whipping up nativism in his base. And while his demagoguery on immigration may draw rebukes from various corners of the Republican establishment, Trump and his close advisers are not bothered, and the overwhelming majority of GOP lawmakers have thus far fallen into line.
The party has moved steadily to the right, embracing the blood-and-soil politics of the once-fringe European factions that erstwhile Trump adviser Stephen K. Bannon believes are forging “a brave new world.” Like their far-right counterparts in Germany, France and Italy, Trump's GOP is animated by a profound sense of grievance with the elite, a nationalism hostile to certain minorities in their midst and a climate of hysteria that rejects mainstream media and spreads conspiracy theories.
“People don’t turn out to say thank you,” said Corey Lewandowski, once Trump's campaign manager, to the New York Times, explicitly arguing that the scenes on the border would generate support for Trump. “If you want to get people motivated, you’ve got to give them a reason to vote. Saying ‘build the wall and stop illegals from coming in and killing American citizens’ gives them an important issue.”
A flurry of polls this week suggest that two-thirds of Americans oppose Trump's policy of separating migrant children from their parents. Nevertheless, only about a third of Republicans disagree with the measures — a sign of the political polarization that Trump has weaponized throughout his presidency.
A separate poll published this week also found a majority of Republicans harboring negative attitudes toward Muslims, who are also frequent targets of Trump’s fear-mongering. It found that some 20 percent of Americans “would deny Muslims who are American citizens the right to vote.”
Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that Trump is following through on the nativist agenda that defined his campaign. But it's less clear what lasting effects he may have on American society and democracy.
“The president is winning anytime the country is focused on immigration — polls and bad headlines be damned,” wrote McKay Coppins in the Atlantic, referring to the thinking of influential anti-immigrant White House adviser Stephen Miller. “His bet appears to be that voters will witness this showdown between Trump and his angry antagonists, and ultimately side with the president.”
That could still be a losing bet, but it has proved successful elsewhere. Italy’s new far-right interior minister, Matteo Salvini, came to power via a platform promising mass deportations of migrants. This week, he proposed a census of the country's Roma minority in a bid to deport those who are found not to be Italians. Chiara Gribaudo, a deputy from the center-left Democratic Party, told reporters that “the way is short from a census to a concentration camp” — yet Salvini and his party are only gaining in popularity (more on that below).
You could argue that that is hyperbole, but the specter of “concentration camps” looms over the American conversation, with accounts (and audio) of migrant children wailing behind chain fences now haunting the administration. On a friendly Fox News broadcast, Attorney General Jeff Sessions dismissed comparisons to a much darker era of internment and discrimination. “It’s a real exaggeration,” he said. “In Nazi Germany, they were keeping the Jews from leaving the country.”
“ ‘We aren’t exactly like the Nazis; we’re just separating children from their parents indefinitely and holding them in detention camps,’ ” Vox noted, “isn’t exactly a compelling brief for the Trump policy.” But it's certainly a sign of the times.
Well, that certainly seemed to be an unbiased look at things. 
There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
This is heartbreaking, however, the policy before with open borders for anyone coming across with children and only a signature needed to say you would go to court at a later date was just as bad if not worse for the children.
Of course they are upset, any child would be, but they are safe.
If you do some digging you will see that many were kidnapping children to get across the border, then they were being left for dead in the desert on the US side or being sold into slavery and worse.
Many have been campaigning to save these kids for many years, and no one gave a s
t, now Trump is in charge the outcry from the left makes me feel fking sick.
Do something about it, offer them a safe home to grow up in, or just to foster them until they are reunited with their parents, shouting at Trump means you really don't care about the children at all.
Of course they are upset, any child would be, but they are safe.
If you do some digging you will see that many were kidnapping children to get across the border, then they were being left for dead in the desert on the US side or being sold into slavery and worse.
Many have been campaigning to save these kids for many years, and no one gave a s
t, now Trump is in charge the outcry from the left makes me feel fking sick. Do something about it, offer them a safe home to grow up in, or just to foster them until they are reunited with their parents, shouting at Trump means you really don't care about the children at all.
mko9 said:
Well, that certainly seemed to be an unbiased look at things.
There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
So in a country which doesn't even blink at throwing up an instant city for 20,000 troops overseas, you wouldn't think of putting up say 1,000 prefab chalets to house the families safely together in a secure 'compound'. There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
No you're right it's better to rip pre school children from their mothers arms and house them with other children in a big cage in a warehouse.
gizlaroc said:
This is heartbreaking, however, the policy before with open borders for anyone coming across with children and only a signature needed to say you would go to court at a later date was just as bad if not worse for the children.
Of course they are upset, any child would be, but they are safe.
If you do some digging you will see that many were kidnapping children to get across the border, then they were being left for dead in the desert on the US side or being sold into slavery and worse.
Many have been campaigning to save these kids for many years, and no one gave a st, now Trump is in charge the outcry from the left makes me feel fking sick.
Do something about it, offer them a safe home to grow up in, or just to foster them until they are reunited with their parents, shouting at Trump means you really don't care about the children at all.
What a total croc of bullsOf course they are upset, any child would be, but they are safe.
If you do some digging you will see that many were kidnapping children to get across the border, then they were being left for dead in the desert on the US side or being sold into slavery and worse.
Many have been campaigning to save these kids for many years, and no one gave a s
t, now Trump is in charge the outcry from the left makes me feel fking sick. Do something about it, offer them a safe home to grow up in, or just to foster them until they are reunited with their parents, shouting at Trump means you really don't care about the children at all.
t. mko9 said:
Well, that certainly seemed to be an unbiased look at things.
There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
Holy fThere are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
k, 
A logical breakdown of the situation that tries to identify the real problems and problems with solutions while avoiding party politics or public displays of piousness.
Are you the chosen one here to save the forum?
Timmy45 said:
mko9 said:
Well, that certainly seemed to be an unbiased look at things.
There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
So in a country which doesn't even blink at throwing up an instant city for 20,000 troops overseas, you wouldn't think of putting up say 1,000 prefab chalets to house the families safely together in a secure 'compound'. There are more or less four options:
1. Do little/nothing about illegal immigration.
2. After apprehending illegal immigrants, let them go and hope they come back for a court date to be thrown out of the country.
3. Detain everyone, all together in one facility. The risk obviously is bad things happening to minors who are in jail with the adult population.
4. Detain everyone, separate minors from adults. The risk/complication is getting everyone back together on the tail end of the process.
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
No you're right it's better to rip pre school children from their mothers arms and house them with other children in a big cage in a warehouse.
The Vambo said:
public displays of piousness.
mko9 said:
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
So the options are either have 12 year old girls raped or separated from their parents?I can see why you’re in favour of this policy.
Most people that have thought about it for a second obviously think other options might be possible.
El stovey said:
mko9 said:
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
So the options are either have 12 year old girls raped or separated from their parents?I can see why you’re in favour of this policy.
Most people that have thought about it for a second obviously think other options might be possible.
The Vambo said:
Holy fk,
A logical breakdown of the situation that tries to identify the real problems and problems with solutions while avoiding party politics or public displays of piousness.
Are you the chosen one here to save the forum?
Extraordinary. You think anyone disagreeing with this policy is being pious? k, A logical breakdown of the situation that tries to identify the real problems and problems with solutions while avoiding party politics or public displays of piousness.
Are you the chosen one here to save the forum?
How on Earth have you decided that a logical solution is a simple choice between having kids separated from their parents or being raped?
Why do you think this policy has changed under trump? Do you think old grab em by the pussy is concerned about the kids welfare in any way at all?
El stovey said:
mko9 said:
Honestly, option 4 seems like the least bad course of action to me. If it were my decision to make, I would rather see some kids crying for Mommy, than see some 12 year old girl get raped by an adult in detention.
So the options are either have 12 year old girls raped or separated from their parents? El stovey said:
Most people that have thought about it for a second obviously think other options might be possible.
Feel freee to elaborate, instead of just criticizing. Do tell us the solution to the whole illegal immigration issue.El stovey said:
The Vambo said:
Holy fk,
A logical breakdown of the situation that tries to identify the real problems and problems with solutions while avoiding party politics or public displays of piousness.
Are you the chosen one here to save the forum?
Extraordinary. You think anyone disagreeing with this policy is being pious? k, A logical breakdown of the situation that tries to identify the real problems and problems with solutions while avoiding party politics or public displays of piousness.
Are you the chosen one here to save the forum?
How on Earth have you decided that a logical solution is a simple choice between having kids separated from their parents or being raped?
Why do you think this policy has changed under trump? Do you think old grab em by the pussy is concerned about the kids welfare in any way at all?
If you think I agree with the policy you are incorrect.
If you think those kids in the cages would rank in the top 10% of kids at risk in the UK nevermind the western world, you are wrong.
If even 1% of the morally outraged mob got off their arse and looked right outside their own windows, they would find plenty of needy kids who are in real danger, in real poverty and could do with some real f
king help.So spare me your moral superior bulls
t, kids in desperate need of help didn't start 4 days ago unlike the public displays of morality.In what moral universe can people say "you cannot criticise putting children in cages to wail for their parents unless you have another plan"?
Just think about that for a moment. "Oh well, I agree that the solution to 1930s' Germany's problems is not obviously to kill all the Jews, and personally I regret the murders (after all, some of my best friends are - sorry were - Jewish), but unless you can devise a perfect solution, you may not criticise the beloved leader, who does his painful duty".
Just think about that for a moment. "Oh well, I agree that the solution to 1930s' Germany's problems is not obviously to kill all the Jews, and personally I regret the murders (after all, some of my best friends are - sorry were - Jewish), but unless you can devise a perfect solution, you may not criticise the beloved leader, who does his painful duty".
ben5575 said:
Kids being separated form their parents, put in cages in the desert and it's the outcry from the left that makes you sick?
It is the fact they was not outcry before that makes me sick. Many have been trying to fight for these kids for years.
The world is just f
ked up as far as I am concerned. In a strange way I am sort of pleased this has now hit the mainstream media, at last something may be done.
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