Gosport hospital deaths: Independent panel findings due

[The Surveyor]

wc98 said:

The Surveyor said:

Clearly they don't have enough influence to avoid an enquiry, or to influence it's result, or to suppress the reporting!

Tin foil hattery of the highest magnitude IMHO

which area group are you part of ? i know what you can do with your tin foil hat. do some reading, you might not look so stupid the next time you comment on something that needs stamped on from a great height.

Says the clown who hides behind an annomous user name.

For the avoidance of any doubt, if you had read my profile you would know that I don't work in the public sector so I'm not party to any suggested cult management strategies within the NHS. The reality of these events in Gosport are that there is a culture of making elderly people comfortable in their dying days, that is used compassionately by clinical staff to shorten patients suffering. It used to be called the Liverpool Care Pathway and it continues despite that being outlawed. That there are clinical staff at Gosport taking that principle too far needs to be stamped out and on that I agree with Prof Jarman.

What I don't see, and don't agree with is that there is a wider conspiracy because I just don't think there is enough collective thinking to make it work within the chaotic management culture that exists within the NHS. Jarman mentions that this has been going on since the 1990's so are we to believe there is a strategy in play that is universally endorsed by all the main political parties, across all elements of the public sector that has never surfaced to be challenged before that conspires to cover-up the failings of those sectors? Really?

Yes, there is utter incompetence within the NHS, yes there is a policy to cover up their errors internally, yes that cover-up strategy may come from Management training, yes there are rouge clinicians taking end-of-life care too far, yes people die. But you are deranged if you believe that everybody with a senior role in the public sector (other than Jarman) for the last 20 years has been brainwashed into abiding by a greater purpose. If I'm stupid for not believing that then so be it.

[Jonesy23]

So you really seriously were completely unaware of Common Purpose, their ideas and their impact on management in multiple organisations?

It was never exactly secret.

You really are giving them the benefit of a doubt that hasn't existed for years.

[V8 Fettler]

With all the tick-boxing that occurs in the NHS, it can't be that difficult to spot similar trends elsewhere.

[carinaman]

Former police officer mentions a similar case on the Isle of Wight and how a police officer involved in that case is now Chair of the Police and Crime Panel, the panel that's supposed to hold Police and Crime Commissioner to account:

http://supportorgs4u.wixsite.com/goodcopdown/blog/...

[wc98]

The Surveyor said:

Says the clown who hides behind an annomous user name.

For the avoidance of any doubt, if you had read my profile you would know that I don't work in the public sector so I'm not party to any suggested cult management strategies within the NHS. The reality of these events in Gosport are that there is a culture of making elderly people comfortable in their dying days, that is used compassionately by clinical staff to shorten patients suffering. It used to be called the Liverpool Care Pathway and it continues despite that being outlawed. That there are clinical staff at Gosport taking that principle too far needs to be stamped out and on that I agree with Prof Jarman.

What I don't see, and don't agree with is that there is a wider conspiracy because I just don't think there is enough collective thinking to make it work within the chaotic management culture that exists within the NHS. Jarman mentions that this has been going on since the 1990's so are we to believe there is a strategy in play that is universally endorsed by all the main political parties, across all elements of the public sector that has never surfaced to be challenged before that conspires to cover-up the failings of those sectors? Really?

Yes, there is utter incompetence within the NHS, yes there is a policy to cover up their errors internally, yes that cover-up strategy may come from Management training, yes there are rouge clinicians taking end-of-life care too far, yes people die. But you are deranged if you believe that everybody with a senior role in the public sector (other than Jarman) for the last 20 years has been brainwashed into abiding by a greater purpose. If I'm stupid for not believing that then so be it.

i don't think i have read a single persons profile since i joined. apologies for labeling you a common purpose drone, that was uncalled for. i personally do not have a problem with what you describe in terms of right to die pain free, from a personal position i would like to see individual choice have even greater rights than we currently have. it is when problems occur and how they are dealt with the "common purpose" involvement becomes an issue (it's also an issue when it comes to driving policy but that is another argument) where people feel obliged to show allegiance to that "common purpose" over doing their job to it's description and the law.

that is why the common purpose movement needs stamped out.

[NDA]

piquet said:

ok i'm a medic and this is probably going to get me mugged, but let me tell you of my experience

Very interesting - and I genuinely hope I have a doctor like you if I find myself in dire straits with my health.

My father died of cancer a few years ago and his life was thankfully and gratefully shortened with morphine. It was along the lines that others have hinted at - a knowing look from a caring doctor and my mum did the rest. It was, as you might imagine, a difficult time.

Thank God we have doctors who can take such a pragmatic approach - to help ease the suffering of those who do not want to suffer any more.

And there is the Gordian knot. Doctors need to have this discretion - they really do - but is the risk of abuse greater than the good they do?

[BlackLabel]

I see this investigation is still ongoing. I’m sure Dr Jane Barton is following the Lucy Letby case closely.


“ Gosport hospital deaths: 425 families' witness statements taken by police

Detectives involved in the major probe, launched following a report’s finding lives were shortened at the hospital between 1987-2001, have taken a statement from each of the 425 families currently actively involved.

It is the fourth investigation, following three run by Hampshire police.

This latest, Operation Magenta, is being run by Deputy Assistant Commissioner Neil Jerome with police from across Britain being enlisted to help.”

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/crime/gosport-ho...

[hidetheelephants]

NDA said:

piquet said:

And there is the Gordian knot. Doctors need to have this discretion - they really do - but is the risk of abuse greater than the good they do?

That's fine, but post-Shipman there needs to be two medics agreeing and a papertrail; I don't see a conflict.