45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 5)
Discussion
Halb said:
Do they though? Or at least, does Pootin? Crmea, well it was Russian property in living memory and has a super majority of Russians there, who wanted to go back, on that basis, I reckon South Ossetia (and the other one, forget name ) which are super russian are in danger too...possibility areas of the balkans with large russian areas, but not as much, but the rest?
THe problems with pootin (stopped being a good guy and became a bad guy to the west) start around the time that NATO/EU started to push into the UKraine and fiddle in the russian sphere of influence. Do we see Pootin encroaching on Kazakstan (not googling how to spell) or the other southern states? Pootin seems to have gotten russua where he wants it to be, especially with goals in Syria met. I don't forsee any koves or desire to push beyond what seemed like the old goals of keeping buffers, and the warm water port.
Load of crap THe problems with pootin (stopped being a good guy and became a bad guy to the west) start around the time that NATO/EU started to push into the UKraine and fiddle in the russian sphere of influence. Do we see Pootin encroaching on Kazakstan (not googling how to spell) or the other southern states? Pootin seems to have gotten russua where he wants it to be, especially with goals in Syria met. I don't forsee any koves or desire to push beyond what seemed like the old goals of keeping buffers, and the warm water port.
oilbethere said:
Putin or the EU?
Who should he side with? I'd personally like to see some bridges built with Russia. Trump invites him to the USA and there is uproar? Open communication and see what happens? It is in the interest of the western nations.
It is better to jaw jaw than to war warWho should he side with? I'd personally like to see some bridges built with Russia. Trump invites him to the USA and there is uproar? Open communication and see what happens? It is in the interest of the western nations.
Halb said:
It is better to jaw jaw than to war war
My thoughts exactly. The World cup was going to be a disaster full of violence. Putin told their hooligans to leave it and they did. The BBC after the final said despite Putin it had been a very successful tournament, there would have been absolute carnage if he had let them be. Why do we keep prodding and upsetting him? oilbethere said:
Halb said:
It is better to jaw jaw than to war war
My thoughts exactly. The World cup was going to be a disaster full of violence. Putin told their hooligans to leave it and they did. The BBC after the final said despite Putin it had been a very successful tournament, there would have been absolute carnage if he had let them be. Why do we keep prodding and upsetting him? Because he meddles in foreign elections to skew the result in his own favor?
Because instability in the West benefits him and his country?
ReaperCushions said:
Because he invades countries and claims them as his own?
Because he meddles in foreign elections to skew the result in his own favor?
Because instability in the West benefits him and his country?
We the UK played a part in Iraq,Libya and Syria. Why are we so different?Because he meddles in foreign elections to skew the result in his own favor?
Because instability in the West benefits him and his country?
The whole Western world is facing a power shift to the East, surely any sensible nation will be trying to benefit their own country?
oilbethere said:
Putin or the EU?
Who should he side with? I'd personally like to see some bridges built with Russia. Trump invites him to the USA and there is uproar? Open communication and see what happens? It is in the interest of the western nations.
If Putin is holding Trump to ransom and getting him to leave NATO then it absolutely isn't in the interest of western nations is it? Neither is it that he's having a trade war with the EU.Who should he side with? I'd personally like to see some bridges built with Russia. Trump invites him to the USA and there is uproar? Open communication and see what happens? It is in the interest of the western nations.
That's the end game. Divide US and Europe, split NATO up, have the west quarrelling whilst he swallows up the old soviet territories and gains more control over the world.
Oh and if he gets Trump to give him Bill Browder then the Magnitsky act is toast, Browder is dead and Putin gets an awful lot of money back which means any potential mistrust by the oligarchs he controls goes away and cements his power further.
F1GTRUeno said:
If Putin is holding Trump to ransom and getting him to leave NATO then it absolutely isn't in the interest of western nations is it?
That's the end game. Divide US and Europe, split NATO up, have the west quarrelling whilst he swallows up the old soviet territories and gains more control over the world.
Oh and if he gets Trump to give him Bill Browder then the Magnitsky act is toast, Browder is dead and Putin gets an awful lot of money back which means any potential mistrust by the oligarchs he controls goes away and cements his power further.
Is he actually holding Trump to ransom though? Genuine question.That's the end game. Divide US and Europe, split NATO up, have the west quarrelling whilst he swallows up the old soviet territories and gains more control over the world.
Oh and if he gets Trump to give him Bill Browder then the Magnitsky act is toast, Browder is dead and Putin gets an awful lot of money back which means any potential mistrust by the oligarchs he controls goes away and cements his power further.
Status threat, not economic hardship, explains the 2016 presidential vote: http://www.pnas.org/content/115/19/E4330
Academics from the political science and communication dept's of the University of Pennsylvania asked a variety of questions regarding perceived threat from outsiders (China, immigration, etc) vs personal economics to test how much the 'left behind' theory of people voting for Trump due to economic hardships held up next to the alternative 'status threat' (aka culture war) narratives being pushed as reasons for people voting for trump.
Their conclusion is that personal economic conditions contributed very little to people's reasons for voting Trump, but that status threat correlated strongly with people's decisions to vote Trump.
This tallies quite strongly with what NRS has been saying and also tallies with articles I've read showing that in the last 10 to 15 years black folk are starting to succeed in a way they never did before, a recent phenomenon possibly related to the 3rd generation since the end of segregation coming to age? Example: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/03/opinions/good-n...
The irony is that while the alt-right scream about leftie snowflakes feeling entitled to what they've not worked for it appears the dynamic is in fact the reverse, it is rightie snowflakes who feel entitled to their position as the global economic elite that are doing the kicking and screaming. Classic case of projection.
I remember when right wing meant taking responsibility for your actions, taking pride in your ability to look after yourself and being responsible with money. It is amazing to see how those values have crumbled the moment they face a level playing field with black and Chinese people. Almost like they were virtue signalling and didn't really mean it.
Academics from the political science and communication dept's of the University of Pennsylvania asked a variety of questions regarding perceived threat from outsiders (China, immigration, etc) vs personal economics to test how much the 'left behind' theory of people voting for Trump due to economic hardships held up next to the alternative 'status threat' (aka culture war) narratives being pushed as reasons for people voting for trump.
Their conclusion is that personal economic conditions contributed very little to people's reasons for voting Trump, but that status threat correlated strongly with people's decisions to vote Trump.
This tallies quite strongly with what NRS has been saying and also tallies with articles I've read showing that in the last 10 to 15 years black folk are starting to succeed in a way they never did before, a recent phenomenon possibly related to the 3rd generation since the end of segregation coming to age? Example: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/03/opinions/good-n...
The irony is that while the alt-right scream about leftie snowflakes feeling entitled to what they've not worked for it appears the dynamic is in fact the reverse, it is rightie snowflakes who feel entitled to their position as the global economic elite that are doing the kicking and screaming. Classic case of projection.
I remember when right wing meant taking responsibility for your actions, taking pride in your ability to look after yourself and being responsible with money. It is amazing to see how those values have crumbled the moment they face a level playing field with black and Chinese people. Almost like they were virtue signalling and didn't really mean it.
oilbethere said:
Is he actually holding Trump to ransom though? Genuine question.
I think we'd all like to know the answer to that one.We know that Trump's business is reliant on Russian money so there's a good chance Putin can call the loans in any time he wants to. I can't imagine anything more fearful to Trump than having his business collapsed by Putin in the full glare of world media, especially if it meant handing to his children a fraction of what was handed to him by his own father.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Saturday 21st July 02:00
Tartan Pixie said:
Status threat, not economic hardship, explains the 2016 presidential vote: http://www.pnas.org/content/115/19/E4330
Academics from the political science and communication dept's of the University of Pennsylvania asked a variety of questions regarding perceived threat from outsiders (China, immigration, etc) vs personal economics to test how much the 'left behind' theory of people voting for Trump due to economic hardships held up next to the alternative 'status threat' (aka culture war) narratives being pushed as reasons for people voting for trump.
Their conclusion is that personal economic conditions contributed very little to people's reasons for voting Trump, but that status threat correlated strongly with people's decisions to vote Trump.
This tallies quite strongly with what NRS has been saying and also tallies with articles I've read showing that in the last 10 to 15 years black folk are starting to succeed in a way they never did before, a recent phenomenon possibly related to the 3rd generation since the end of segregation coming to age? Example: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/03/opinions/good-n...
The irony is that while the alt-right scream about leftie snowflakes feeling entitled to what they've not worked for it appears the dynamic is in fact the reverse, it is rightie snowflakes who feel entitled to their position as the global economic elite that are doing the kicking and screaming. Classic case of projection.
I remember when right wing meant taking responsibility for your actions, taking pride in your ability to look after yourself and being responsible with money. It is amazing to see how those values have crumbled the moment they face a level playing field with black and Chinese people. Almost like they were virtue signalling and didn't really mean it.
I'd agree, in a lot of schools today the white working class are being left behind, these are people you would assume come from Left leaning backgrounds? Academics from the political science and communication dept's of the University of Pennsylvania asked a variety of questions regarding perceived threat from outsiders (China, immigration, etc) vs personal economics to test how much the 'left behind' theory of people voting for Trump due to economic hardships held up next to the alternative 'status threat' (aka culture war) narratives being pushed as reasons for people voting for trump.
Their conclusion is that personal economic conditions contributed very little to people's reasons for voting Trump, but that status threat correlated strongly with people's decisions to vote Trump.
This tallies quite strongly with what NRS has been saying and also tallies with articles I've read showing that in the last 10 to 15 years black folk are starting to succeed in a way they never did before, a recent phenomenon possibly related to the 3rd generation since the end of segregation coming to age? Example: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/03/opinions/good-n...
The irony is that while the alt-right scream about leftie snowflakes feeling entitled to what they've not worked for it appears the dynamic is in fact the reverse, it is rightie snowflakes who feel entitled to their position as the global economic elite that are doing the kicking and screaming. Classic case of projection.
I remember when right wing meant taking responsibility for your actions, taking pride in your ability to look after yourself and being responsible with money. It is amazing to see how those values have crumbled the moment they face a level playing field with black and Chinese people. Almost like they were virtue signalling and didn't really mean it.
When the power shift moves fully over to the East I can see it ending in war.
Tartan Pixie said:
oilbethere said:
Is he actually holding Trump to ransom though? Genuine question.
I think we'd all like to know the answer to that one.We know that Trump's business is reliant on Russian money so there's a good chance Putin can call the loans in any time he wants to. I can't imagine anything more fearful to Trump than having his business collapsed by Putin in the full glare of world media, especially if it meant handing to his children a fraction of what was handed to him by his own father.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Saturday 21st July 02:00
Could very well be billions.
I said before that I wonder exactly how bad it is and perhaps Donald's family are in trouble if he doesn't play ball, hence why Ivanka got a cushy job in the WH so he's close to her. I doubt he cares about DJTjr or Erik (shudders) and definitely doesn't about Tiffany but Ivanka is his mistess. (Sorry, princess)
This will be interesting. Airing today in america
A Panarama investigation by the BBC - is trump a sex pest, based on the cocaine parties with under aged minors...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct4nzc
A Panarama investigation by the BBC - is trump a sex pest, based on the cocaine parties with under aged minors...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/n3ct4nzc
The Washington Post are looking further at the data links between the russians and team trump
How the russians heavily hit social media just before the wikileaks release
Russian operatives blasted 18,000 tweets ahead of a huge news day during the 2016 presidential campaign.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/07/...
Then how team trump, the russians, CA all used the same data
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opi...
There are reports of an Alfa bank server being used as a conduit, a database replicater
https://teapainusa.wordpress.com/2018/06/05/major-...
How the russians heavily hit social media just before the wikileaks release
Russian operatives blasted 18,000 tweets ahead of a huge news day during the 2016 presidential campaign.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2018/07/...
Then how team trump, the russians, CA all used the same data
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opi...
There are reports of an Alfa bank server being used as a conduit, a database replicater
https://teapainusa.wordpress.com/2018/06/05/major-...
NRS said:
It is what a lot of them believe, if you listen to them rather than just shouting over the top. Some of it might not be true, or is overly simplistic, but there is a lot of stuff there that has basis in truth, to a greater or lesser extent.
A lot of Trump supporters are stupid. But the same goes for a lot of the anti-Trump people too. There is a lot of jumping on the bandwagon on both sides, hence why there is no middle ground. It used to be people had to give and take, find the middle ground to get stuff done. Now both sides are so full of themselves that they are right, the other side is stupid etc there is nothing getting done much. It's why Obama was so criticised for doing executive decisions to get stuff done, as nothing else much happened due to standstill. The extremes had happened and were happening a long time before the current president. It's just even more extreme now. You're doing the same as Trump there - it's worse than ever before etc in your language. The reality is it's not. Look back in history a bit more than the last say 20 years.
No, it is not down to exec pay, as that would not make a difference to lower paid job increases. Salary increases is related to the competition for getting employees. If it is easy to get employees there will be no increase/ it will decrease. Globalisation is directly responsible for making labour easier to get, meaning it is more mobile so even if there is demand it will be quickly filled, and as a result it puts pressure on the local services due to more competition. A company has to pay the going rate, and the going rate will only increase if it is difficult to get someone. Just saying "racist" about anyone who has the viewpoint is what drives extremism (although plenty are racist too). The exec issue is related to a closed-boy club, plus larger companies needing to get it right more than they used to - just look at the average time in the FTSE 100 for example compared to what it was in the past.
I pay attention, but have not really heard much about policies since the election. Sanders had a lot of good stuff to say, but between the Republicans and some Democrats it wasn't so widely spread. I'm also not convinced the US is ready for someone like Sanders as it stands.
Go ahead and blame only the right. That's why Brexit, Trump, Le Penn etc are happening - the right gets lumped in with them and people become more and more extreme as they're ignored/ their views are lumped with extremists and so they might as well become extreme.
Thanks for a couple of great posts - makes a real change from the Trump derrangement fest this thread usually is. The lack of objectivity and capacity for self criticism among Trump’s opponents (the left mostly) is what WILL get him re-elected and is what is driving the rise of right wing parties in Europe.A lot of Trump supporters are stupid. But the same goes for a lot of the anti-Trump people too. There is a lot of jumping on the bandwagon on both sides, hence why there is no middle ground. It used to be people had to give and take, find the middle ground to get stuff done. Now both sides are so full of themselves that they are right, the other side is stupid etc there is nothing getting done much. It's why Obama was so criticised for doing executive decisions to get stuff done, as nothing else much happened due to standstill. The extremes had happened and were happening a long time before the current president. It's just even more extreme now. You're doing the same as Trump there - it's worse than ever before etc in your language. The reality is it's not. Look back in history a bit more than the last say 20 years.
No, it is not down to exec pay, as that would not make a difference to lower paid job increases. Salary increases is related to the competition for getting employees. If it is easy to get employees there will be no increase/ it will decrease. Globalisation is directly responsible for making labour easier to get, meaning it is more mobile so even if there is demand it will be quickly filled, and as a result it puts pressure on the local services due to more competition. A company has to pay the going rate, and the going rate will only increase if it is difficult to get someone. Just saying "racist" about anyone who has the viewpoint is what drives extremism (although plenty are racist too). The exec issue is related to a closed-boy club, plus larger companies needing to get it right more than they used to - just look at the average time in the FTSE 100 for example compared to what it was in the past.
I pay attention, but have not really heard much about policies since the election. Sanders had a lot of good stuff to say, but between the Republicans and some Democrats it wasn't so widely spread. I'm also not convinced the US is ready for someone like Sanders as it stands.
Go ahead and blame only the right. That's why Brexit, Trump, Le Penn etc are happening - the right gets lumped in with them and people become more and more extreme as they're ignored/ their views are lumped with extremists and so they might as well become extreme.
I also take issue with snobby leftists insisting that Trump supporters are thick - there is stupidity on both sides as evidenced by the UK Trump protesters who, for the most part, couldn’t even explain why they oppose Trump. The anti-Trump media frenzy has massively shaped the opinions of many average people, although I think an increasingly large minority are learning to think for themselves.
What the left can’t grasp is that Trump’s supporters don’t care if he is some paragon of morality. They just want a president on their side and on the side of America rather than one working towards globalist ideals. Besides, looking at the behaviour of past presidents and revelations about what really goes on in Hollywood etc show that the left is in absolutely no position to preach about morality.
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