45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 5)

45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 5)

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Kccv23highliftcam

1,783 posts

36 months

Wednesday 11th July 2018
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jjlynn27 said:
El stovey said:
midenginedcoupe said:
AnotherClarkey said:
jjlynn27 said:
4% of GDP on NATO? Or what?
Sounds like a decent idea - as long as none of it is spent in the USA and we redevelop our indigenous defence industry.
Sounds like a terrible idea. What would it be for? We have so many better things to spend our money on.
Is that NATO or defence? Can we spend it on pensions and helping unjured service personal etc?
Mea culpa.
4% on defence. Which is still insane, imo. Spend it on scanners and oncologists.
yes

If it all goes pete tong we can always learn Ruski....

I mean it's not like we actually get value for money either.. EG..

Fully 74% of Export F-35s Delivered Until 2023 Are Obsolete

.. F35 [the joke is most definitely on the customer] Most of the UK's initial 48 aircraft will need substantial upgrade work to reach what was once referred to as Block 4 standard. The cost of this work has not been defined. Separately, the USAF has made it clear that the central element of this upgrade, the new TR3 integrated core processor, will be required for future upgrades. it doesn't exist.


Ref.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/fea...


R/H column refers..



Edited by Kccv23highliftcam on Wednesday 11th July 23:17

Tartan Pixie

1,810 posts

108 months

Wednesday 11th July 2018
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When Kim met Xi just before the Singapore meeting I am beginning to think they sat down with a glass of something nice to have an amusing and probably quite well informed conversation about how to embarrass the Trump team.

Trump was forced to spend a day hanging about in Singapore waiting for Kim, got to spend an hour with Kim who then promptly departed. To the north Korean people this looks very good, the American devil is waiting at the beck and call of dear leader.

Now Kim has released the reason he could not make the planned meeting with Pompeo last weekend, it's because he had far more pressing business to attend to, like visiting a potato farm: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/kim-j...

They're not just failing to denuclearise, they're ripping the absolute piss hehe

Kolbenkopp

2,336 posts

112 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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Germany and the 2%...

The UK spends around € 40 billion currently / year. For Germany, it would be close to double the amount. Now imagine they did that for a decade. > € 800 billion spent on defense. WW2 might be a faint memory, but I think German militarization on such a scale would still make people uncomfortable.

So simple question: would the neighboring countries really want that?

s2art

18,888 posts

214 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
Kolbenkopp said:
Germany and the 2%...

The UK spends around € 40 billion currently / year. For Germany, it would be close to double the amount. Now imagine they did that for a decade. > € 800 billion spent on defense. WW2 might be a faint memory, but I think German militarization on such a scale would still make people uncomfortable.

So simple question: would the neighboring countries really want that?
Why ,not? The threat is not from Germany. They (Germans) just want to keep their factories running and the profits to keep rolling in. Its not the 1930's.

LoonyTunes

3,362 posts

36 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
s2art said:
Kolbenkopp said:
Germany and the 2%...

The UK spends around € 40 billion currently / year. For Germany, it would be close to double the amount. Now imagine they did that for a decade. > € 800 billion spent on defense. WW2 might be a faint memory, but I think German militarization on such a scale would still make people uncomfortable.

So simple question: would the neighboring countries really want that?
Why ,not? The threat is not from Germany. They (Germans) just want to keep their factories running and the profits to keep rolling in. Its not the 1930's.
That's as may be - and I love Germany and the people - but isn't it a case of "once bitten twice shy" or in Germany's case "Twice bitten.."?

Eric Mc

113,824 posts

226 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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LoonyTunes said:
That's as may be - and I love Germany and the people - but isn't it a case of "once bitten twice shy" or in Germany's case "Twice bitten.."?
Or, if you include the Franco-Prussian War, thrice bitten.

p1stonhead

24,282 posts

128 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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He’s a lad isn’t he rofl


midenginedcoupe

5,598 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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LoonyTunes said:
That's as may be - and I love Germany and the people - but isn't it a case of "once bitten twice shy" or in Germany's case "Twice bitten.."?
For me the important bit is to learn from history, not to assume it will play out identically a bit later on. There is a NATO member today with huge military strength that's run by a fascist and, spoiler alert, it's not Germany.

But, surely, if Germany are to spend more on their military (and I still think even the 2% goal is stupid - what on earth is it all for?), aren't we going to have to repeal the limits we've imposed on their troop numbers?

fatbutt

1,983 posts

225 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
midenginedcoupe said:
For me the important bit is to learn from history, not to assume it will play out identically a bit later on. There is a NATO member today with huge military strength that's run by a fascist and, spoiler alert, it's not Germany.

But, surely, if Germany are to spend more on their military (and I still think even the 2% goal is stupid - what on earth is it all for?), aren't we going to have to repeal the limits we've imposed on their troop numbers?
The 2% demands are purely a push to generate income for the defense industry and industry that Trump Inc. has links to. The US spends an absurd amount of money on defense toys that they don't need, are generally over specified and an alarmingly high percentage of simply don't work.

4x4Tyke

6,506 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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Trumped up charges takes on a whole new meaning.

Why did they arrest the victim and not the perp?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...

midenginedcoupe

5,598 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
fatbutt said:
midenginedcoupe said:
For me the important bit is to learn from history, not to assume it will play out identically a bit later on. There is a NATO member today with huge military strength that's run by a fascist and, spoiler alert, it's not Germany.

But, surely, if Germany are to spend more on their military (and I still think even the 2% goal is stupid - what on earth is it all for?), aren't we going to have to repeal the limits we've imposed on their troop numbers?
The 2% demands are purely a push to generate income for the defense industry and industry that Trump Inc. has links to. The US spends an absurd amount of money on defense toys that they don't need, are generally over specified and an alarmingly high percentage of simply don't work.
Well, yes. Obviously.

But nobody's actually had the balls to come out and say that publicly, and especially not to admit that massive government spending programmes, job creation for the sake of job creation, and vast inefficient and bureaucratic public funded organisations is something they want. But because it's military rather than, say, health, education or research, that's all fine with "rightists". Guess which of these would benefit both the people of the country _and_ its economy more?

Maybe we need to smother our hospitals with flags, put shiny uniforms on doctors and have pomp and circumstance at every turn and they'll get treated with the same mouth-breathing patriotic fervour.

I know I'd want to see health staff adorned with medals of honour for the lives they've saved, the procedures they've pioneered, the difference they've made to everyone. We could even have our state of the art medical kit wheeled down The Mall as a show of medical strength to (attempt to) lord it over our fellow countries.

dodgyviper

1,174 posts

199 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
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With regards to the USAs' 4% budget - is this its NATO expenditure or its overall spend?

NATO isn't their only theatre of influence and it could be argued their expenditure also includes the Pacific region which falls outside of NATOs' remit by and large.

So arguably, they could be spending 2% or less on NATO.

Tartan Pixie

1,810 posts

108 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
4x4Tyke said:
Trumped up charges takes on a whole new meaning.

Why did they arrest the victim and not the perp?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/...
Standard thinking among Islamists, it was the woman's fault for looking sexy, she was preying on those poor innocent men who couldn't help themselves. Sorry, republicans, I meant republicans not Islamists.

midenginedcoupe

5,598 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
dodgyviper said:
With regards to the USAs' 4% budget - is this its NATO expenditure or its overall spend?

NATO isn't their only theatre of influence and it could be argued their expenditure also includes the Pacific region which falls outside of NATOs' remit by and large.

So arguably, they could be spending 2% or less on NATO.
Womp womp frown

It’s %GDP to spend on their own military. Not to “give” to NATO.

Can we run a poll for how many people are going to pop up on the thread with the same misconception? I’m bagsying 20 by this time next week.

Countdown

29,455 posts

157 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
dodgyviper said:
With regards to the USAs' 4% budget - is this its NATO expenditure or its overall spend?

NATO isn't their only theatre of influence and it could be argued their expenditure also includes the Pacific region which falls outside of NATOs' remit by and large.

So arguably, they could be spending 2% or less on NATO.
Overall military spend.

Tartan Pixie

1,810 posts

108 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
Kccv23highliftcam said:
What a mess. I guess there's going to end up being some kind of block 3.5 release as customers are not going to put up with jets where the primary offensive capability is skywriting passive aggressive messages.

Regarding the bluster about 2% and defence spending in general there's one group of people who this is going to play very badly with - Trump voters who were drawn to his isolationist and often anti war rhetoric he campaigned on.

among Trump voters I've spoken to this was a primary draw and his failure in N Korea, his Iran sabre rattling, this NATO farce, etc is a betrayal of what they were promised before the election.

Perhaps it's bias among the people I know or have talked to but I do not sense much appetite for more warmongering among Americans and many people who are heartily sick of it.

The louder he bangs the war drum the more damage he's doing to the non shouty floating voter part of his vote.

Halb

51,731 posts

144 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
midenginedcoupe said:
...massive government spending programmes, job creation for the sake of job creation, and vast inefficient and bureaucratic public funded organisations is something they want. But because it's military rather than, say, health, education or research, that's all fine with "rightists". Guess which of these would benefit both the people of the country _and_ its economy more?

Maybe we need to smother our hospitals with flags, put shiny uniforms on doctors and have pomp and circumstance at every turn and they'll get treated with the same mouth-breathing patriotic fervour.
it's crazy isn't it. Reminds me of the Bill Hicks quote;

You know all that money we spend on the military ever year - trillions of dollars? Instead, if we use this money to feed and clothe the poor of this world, which it would do many times over, then we can explore space, inner and outer, together, as one race.

Lazermilk

3,270 posts

42 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
Halb said:
midenginedcoupe said:
...massive government spending programmes, job creation for the sake of job creation, and vast inefficient and bureaucratic public funded organisations is something they want. But because it's military rather than, say, health, education or research, that's all fine with "rightists". Guess which of these would benefit both the people of the country _and_ its economy more?

Maybe we need to smother our hospitals with flags, put shiny uniforms on doctors and have pomp and circumstance at every turn and they'll get treated with the same mouth-breathing patriotic fervour.
it's crazy isn't it. Reminds me of the Bill Hicks quote;

You know all that money we spend on the military ever year - trillions of dollars? Instead, if we use this money to feed and clothe the poor of this world, which it would do many times over, then we can explore space, inner and outer, together, as one race.
That would get my vote for sure! thumbup

midenginedcoupe

5,598 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
Halb said:
it's crazy isn't it. Reminds me of the Bill Hicks quote;

You know all that money we spend on the military ever year - trillions of dollars? Instead, if we use this money to feed and clothe the poor of this world, which it would do many times over, then we can explore space, inner and outer, together, as one race.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of dressing up our health service to attract the fervour of pro-military tts.

Nobody complains about the wasted money on passing out parades
Nobody complains about the wasted money on 21 gun salutes
Nobody complains about the wasted money on fly-by's
Nobody complains about vast tracts of prime real estate being owned by public bodies and not generating revenue
Etc., etc.

Because it's pomp and circumstance. Something tts can gather round and collectively virtue signal about how "patriotic" they are.

In contrast, when a doctor qualifies from their training, the most they do is get hammered down the pub with a few mates and mildly abuse some recreational pharmaceuticals. Of course I'd much rather this version, and it seems much more genuinely patriotic and quintessentially British to me, but the tts are in charge. So here we are.

In fact, it looks like the medical corps already do this. I propose this as a starter for 10 for our new junior doctor's uniform, apparently attending event in the newly renamed Anaesthetist's Parade.


Tartan Pixie

1,810 posts

108 months

Thursday 12th July 2018
quotequote all
smile

One more vote for midenginedcoupe here. Doctors in hats not marines in spats!

While we're at it can we rename tariffs to taxes please because that's what they are.
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