Is this the last tory government

[deadslow]

Mr E said:

mondeoman said:

We need a Muppet Party!

Last I checked, I think we have a couple.

one muppet party and one super-moronic-muppet government

[FiF]

Majority of Conservative members are pro No Deal and hate Corbyn. Perfect storm. Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

Can only go one way.

[Hoink]

FiF said:

Majority of Conservative members are pro No Deal and hate Corbyn. Perfect storm. Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

Can only go one way.

Twitter is full of membership cards being cut up.

[Fittster]

FiF said:

Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

And the alternatives are? The Lib Dem, UKIP or some new party with no infrastructure on the ground.

[FiF]

Fittster said:

FiF said:

Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

And the alternatives are? The Lib Dem, UKIP or some new party with no infrastructure on the ground.

Just because they aren't there at this precise moment doesn't mean they never will be there in the longer or medium term. Certainly within the next few years sufficient to be a seriously disruptive influence. Short term, ie in next 12/18 months possibly not, but of course that's forgetting the current shower and for some time have been strictly short termist.

[WCZ]

my local tory mp is getting so much hate on twitter, usually people never comment on anything he says but people are straining at the leash to have the opportunity to vote him out now

[Derek Smith]

Fittster said:

FiF said:

Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

And the alternatives are? The Lib Dem, UKIP or some new party with no infrastructure on the ground.

May is trying to get Corbyn to be seen as the cause for any problem post leaving. If we assume that May will fail in her attempts to get Corbyn on board then if there's a deal that is fairly well received, she'll get the kudos. If it results in a hard brexit because of a failure to cooperate by Corbyn, then he'll get the blame.

The tories have suffered a lot of damage to their credibility. The next leader will be critical, but whoever it is will have the same problems to an extent. The smaller parties, such as LD and UKIP will gain protest votes I think, but these never last. If there's a new party, then the lack of infrastructure will be a significant hurdle, one that will be difficult to overcome.

The other parties will probably concentrate on a few seats that they think they can win with a swing. The tory party didn't get a majority last time and they've done nothing to convince the electorate to come on board in the mean time. Labour too are struggling as Corbyn has not shown himself as pm material. Just the reverse.

If there's an election in the near future, and without a solution to the EU, then I doubt the tory party will gain a majority, and there's every chance of them losing seats.

[Fittster]

Derek Smith said:

Fittster said:

FiF said:

Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

And the alternatives are? The Lib Dem, UKIP or some new party with no infrastructure on the ground.

May is trying to get Corbyn to be seen as the cause for any problem post leaving. If we assume that May will fail in her attempts to get Corbyn on board then if there's a deal that is fairly well received, she'll get the kudos. If it results in a hard brexit because of a failure to cooperate by Corbyn, then he'll get the blame.

The tories have suffered a lot of damage to their credibility. The next leader will be critical, but whoever it is will have the same problems to an extent. The smaller parties, such as LD and UKIP will gain protest votes I think, but these never last. If there's a new party, then the lack of infrastructure will be a significant hurdle, one that will be difficult to overcome.

The other parties will probably concentrate on a few seats that they think they can win with a swing. The tory party didn't get a majority last time and they've done nothing to convince the electorate to come on board in the mean time. Labour too are struggling as Corbyn has not shown himself as pm material. Just the reverse.

If there's an election in the near future, and without a solution to the EU, then I doubt the tory party will gain a majority, and there's every chance of them losing seats.

Framing Brexit is a Labour issue is going to be a tough sell. The conservative party have been infighting on Europe since Ted Heath and the referendum was called because Cameron was worried about UKIP. Corbyn just needs to sit behind his 6 tests (which are nonsense but they do the job of moving the issue to the Tories) and let the Tories rip themselves to shreds. He's got nothing to gain by engaging with the issue.

The Tories and the DUP also have a demographics issue, they need to capture more young/middle aged voters, however doing that without alienating their current support who might be dying off but do actually vote.

[Baaaz]

I think brexit will ruin the tories and with any luck it'll destroy labour too

[Halb]

WCZ said:

my local tory mp is getting so much hate on twitter, usually people never comment on anything he says but people are straining at the leash to have the opportunity to vote him out now

how come?

[Down and out]

Baaaz said:

I think brexit will ruin the tories and with any luck it'll destroy labour too

People had enough trouble believing manifestos before all this.

[Fittster]

Baaaz said:

I think brexit will ruin the tories and with any luck it'll destroy labour too

And replace them with what exactly? UKIP??

It's easy enough to destroy the existing parties/system but then you have to build a stable, moderate replacement, which is rather harder.

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 3rd April 12:40

[WyrleyD]

Fittster said:

FiF said:

Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

And the alternatives are? The Lib Dem, UKIP or some new party with no infrastructure on the ground.

Or the newly revamped SDP might be worth a look if they have candidates in your area. The new chairman is a defector from the Conservatives and they have an interesting manifesto.

[Guybrush]

Labour have always left the country with higher unemployment than when they started, have always damaged the economy (massive borrowing and spending on non productive things like more public sector staff, non medical NHS 'managers' etc) and now propose policies even further to the left which have never worked before anywhere in the world where imposed. And yet, there are still people supporting them. So, the lesson is, no matter how crap a party is, all is not lost for them.

[Baaaz]

Fittster said:

And replace them with what exactly? UKIP??

It's easy enough to destroy the existing parties/system but then you have to build a stable, moderate replacement, which is rather harder.

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 3rd April 12:40

Yeah sure, why not have UKIP replace them?

[stongle]

Baaaz said:

Fittster said:

And replace them with what exactly? UKIP??

It's easy enough to destroy the existing parties/system but then you have to build a stable, moderate replacement, which is rather harder.

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 3rd April 12:40

Yeah sure, why not have UKIP replace them?

Because they are a one issue party and nothing else.

[Fittster]

WyrleyD said:

Fittster said:

FiF said:

Parties waiting to hoover up votes of both Leavers and the Remainers.

And the alternatives are? The Lib Dem, UKIP or some new party with no infrastructure on the ground.

Or the newly revamped SDP might be worth a look if they have candidates in your area. The new chairman is a defector from the Conservatives and they have an interesting manifesto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_(UK) ?

Without infrastructure new parties struggle. UKIP got off to a blazing start but didn't manage to get any MPs elected, and have realistically collapsed. Without a lot of bodies on the ground to campaign and support/vet candidates you have no chance building an effective party that can fight an election on a broad range of issues.

Rather than creating a new party it would be better to fight for another referendum on PR so smaller parties can get a foot hold.

[Piha]

Baaaz said:

Fittster said:

And replace them with what exactly? UKIP??

It's easy enough to destroy the existing parties/system but then you have to build a stable, moderate replacement, which is rather harder.

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 3rd April 12:40

Yeah sure, why not have UKIP replace them?

Because UKIP seem to think that by getting convicted criminal Stephen Yaxley Lennon as a special advisor they will attract votes.

[Piha]

Baaaz said:

I think brexit will ruin the tories and with any luck it'll destroy labour too

That is what I hope for too.

Although it might take time, the destruction of Lab/tory would hopefully allow new political parties to emerge that had to work for votes, engage with the communities they represent and become accountable.

As much as I hate and hold in contempt UKIP/BNP/EDL/Brexit/Religious type political parties, if they don't have a voice in mainstream politics then they will continue to attract the more extreme ends of the electorate and move further and further away from mainstream politics. All of the UK's people deserve a voice and to be heard.

Allowing for PR rather than FPtP would be a help too.

[psi310398]

Piha said:

Because UKIP seem to think that by getting convicted criminal Stephen Yaxley Lennon as a special advisor they will attract votes.

They probably will. The question is really whether they repel more.