Was Kipling racist?
Discussion
Dindoit said:
OK, beyond help then.
if you cannot see that using a modern term to describe a period where the concept didn't even exist, then yes you are.You might as well say that Boadicea was racist, do you really think that makes any kind of sense?
Or the Roman's were racist for enslaving 'others', would you still make that claim if I point out that italians could be slaves and North Africans could be citizens?
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Friday 20th July 11:27
Countdown said:
However it gives the "perpetually offended" something new to get offended about.
The only "professionally offended" are the ones trying to be outraged over the (complete lack of) outrage over this. I.E. the Daily Mail readers, people who complain about a special on the History Channel because it's about black history. When's the next Shark Week... I'm sure the "professionally offended" DM readers can be offended about that (the term "grey nurse" seems appropriate).
4x4Tyke said:
if you cannot see that using a modern term to describe a period where the concept didn't even exist, then yes you are.
You might as well say that say Boadicea was racist, do you really think that makes any kind of sense?
Or the Roman's were racist for enslaving 'others', would you still make that claim if I point out that italians could be slaves and North Africans could be citizens?
the concept of being superior to another race/culture didn't exist?You might as well say that say Boadicea was racist, do you really think that makes any kind of sense?
Or the Roman's were racist for enslaving 'others', would you still make that claim if I point out that italians could be slaves and North Africans could be citizens?
Edited by Halb on Friday 20th July 11:12
4x4Tyke said:
Dindoit said:
OK, beyond help then.
if you cannot see that using a modern term to describe a period where the concept didn't even exist, then yes you are.You might as well say that say Boadicea was racist, do you really think that makes any kind of sense?
Or the Roman's were racist for enslaving 'others', would you still make that claim if I point out that italians could be slaves and North Africans could be citizens?
FourWheelDrift said:
I was going to say these students will one day be leaders of commerce and high ranking decision makers on the national and international scene, but then thought they are all probably sociology students so one day you will be ordering your fast food from them instead.
"the union’s liberation and access officer"
I think its more likely that you will find them on Corbyns front bench in the near future."the union’s liberation and access officer"
Hoofy said:
jjlynn27 said:
t off PH. I didn't vote Brexit to see black Bakewells. 
PS Vegan cake? Doesn't count.
Nothing like my gran made, in Bakewell.
If you want a real one, have a bakewell, at the bakewell show, in bakewell !
Yum.
Anyway, stupid kids, grow up.
WinstonWolf said:
4x4Tyke said:
Dindoit said:
OK, beyond help then.
if you cannot see that using a modern term to describe a period where the concept didn't even exist, then yes you are.You might as well say that say Boadicea was racist, do you really think that makes any kind of sense?
Or the Roman's were racist for enslaving 'others', would you still make that claim if I point out that italians could be slaves and North Africans could be citizens?
Similarly is aristocratic privilege, 'born to rule', racist?
4x4Tyke said:
Dindoit said:
OK, beyond help then.
if you cannot see that using a modern term to describe a period where the concept didn't even exist, then yes you are.You might as well say that Boadicea was racist, do you really think that makes any kind of sense?
Or the Roman's were racist for enslaving 'others', would you still make that claim if I point out that italians could be slaves and North Africans could be citizens?
Dindoit said:
Personally I don’t think it’s fair to judge people by today’s standards
Dindoit said:
As I said to judge history by today's standards achieves nothing
Those students aren't that smart. They missed one of his greater works - Tommy Atkins. In relation to what our war veterans have to put up with, every word of this poem is still true to this day - especially the last verse.
I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
I WENT into a public 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, " We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, go away " ;
But it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' " Tommy, wait outside ";
But it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap.
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's " Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "
But it's " Saviour of 'is country " when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An 'Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!
NDA said:
George Smiley said:
Manchester Uni students have a sad history of these silly stunts but it isn't helped when fuelled by lecturers like this silly bint:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/art/what-to-see/manche...
It's not too far from what IS are doing. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/art/what-to-see/manche...
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