How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)

[psi310398]

Helicopter123 said:

The BBC must be politically and commercially independent by dint of its Royal Charter.

Please tell me which MSM you would say covers Brexit fairly from your side of the argument? I do challenge confirmation bias. I won’t look at loony tune websites or filthy tabloid nonsense.

Thanks. I am aware what the Royal Charter requires. I'm stating that the BBC falls far short of that and has done for years. Others here appear to agree. See also the long running PH thread on the balanced QT audience and panel for a take on the same with a range of other posters who do not haunt this thread.

I don't think any of the MSM is tackling the issue objectively, or even trying to.

There was a poster several pages ago (sorry I'm not scrolling back) who suggested challenging assumptions and going back to the core data and information to try to understand independently and rigorously what underlay a lot of the arguments. I try to do that where it is relevant, but a lot of the Brexit issues are about principles, not facts, and it is all about contingent events.

But do you really not see the issue with dismissing "loony tune websites" - it is in danger of being, if it is not already, a circular argument: these people disagree with my Weltanschauung - see there - being a good European! - ergo, loony tunes or filthy tabloid? So the only sane sites are those that confirm your own opinions...

[Tuna]

jjlynn27 said:

Crackie said:

Tuna said:

So we have:

Trolleys - Who cannot say what the Peoples Vote that he's demanding should actually ask
Electric Soup - Who believes that having left, we could re-join the EU under the same conditions as we left
Helicopter123 - Who is happy to join the Euro, with no idea of the financial consequences
mx5nut - Who has apparently been on these threads for way over a year and still needs it to be explained to him why 17 million people voted to Leave
Mr T - Who's entire argument against Brexit was that NI was impossible, right up to the point when Barnier said it was possible

You would have thought that after two years of going round in circles, they'd have a better argument composed.

/\ You would hope that their posts, regarding Brexit, aren't serious and they're on here for a giggle or a wind up; the alternative beggars belief.

List by;

Tuna; Who sits down and counts insults, who demonstrably can't figure FDI while defending idiocy that FDI has risen, who looks to tobacco lobby for evidence in relation to health matters without being able to understand outcomes.

Thanks for quoting that list again. You make one of the strongest cases for Brexit on this forum I'll add:

jj - Siddick's inability to let a comment go, combined with a pathological obsession with ad-hominem attacks. If a Leave voter told him he was on fire, he'd actually burn to death trying to prove them wrong.

Happy now?

[CaptainSlow]

Helicopter123 said:

If you don't believe me, have a look at this for yourself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/regulato...

At least consider the possibility for a moment that if the BBC is in fact politically and commercially neutral, then where does that leave you, and your opinions, if they are so far removed from neutral?

The fact that the BBC is accused of bias from all sides of the political spectrum tells me that they are indeed neutral.

I like this chap, can we keep him, please please can we keep him?

[don'tbesilly]

vonuber said:

don'tbesilly said:

You missed the announcement that the Mail had changed it's editor?
Quite a few others did as well, whilst trumpeting that even "The Mail had given up on Brexit"

Geordie Greig is to be the new editor of the Daily Mail, putting a staunch remainer in charge of one of the most pro-Brexit newspapers in the country.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/07/new-...

It'll still be a right leaning paper though. Brexit is not really left vs right, is it.

According to some Remainers it very much is, you only have to venture onto some threads not even about Brexit, and the Brexit threads to know that many Remainers see it as very, very 'right' to have voted Brexit.

[Trolleys Thank You]

Helicopter123 said:

don'tbesilly said:

Helicopter123 said:

psi310398 said:

If you can't see that the BBC is biased, nothing I can say is likely change your mind, so I won't waste my time.

But you might wish to consider the possibility that your difficulty in "find[ing] any credible sources that support Brexit" is a symptom of confirmation bias...

The BBC must be politically and commercially independent by dint of its Royal Charter.

Please tell me which MSM you would say covers Brexit fairly from your side of the argument? I do challenge confirmation bias. I won’t look at loony tune websites or filthy tabloid nonsense.

Geez, incredible that someone can be quite so naive!

Have you deleted the post you made about me yet?
I've not seen an apology, thanks

If you don't believe me, have a look at this for yourself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/regulato...

At least consider the possibility for a moment that if the BBC is in fact politically and commercially neutral, then where does that leave you, and your opinions, if they are so far removed from neutral?

The fact that the BBC is accused of bias from all sides of the political spectrum tells me that they are indeed neutral.

Using facts as bait to go gammon fishing.

Admiring your work.

[sidicks]

Trolleys Thank You said:

Using facts as bait to go gammon fishing.

Admiring your work.

‘Facts’?!

The charter is known - whether the BBC live up to it is highly subjective. I doubt you’d understand that though!

Plenty of insults from Remainers in the last hour or two but PM is conspicuous by his absence!

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 18th September 20:49

[vonuber]

sidicks said:

Plenty of insults from Remainers in the last hour or two but PM is conspicuous by his absence!

Actually, it appears to be a page of everyone insulting helicopter123.

[sidicks]

vonuber said:

Actually, it appears to be a page of everyone insulting helicopter123.

Don’t tell me you can’t see the insults the other way? Must be the setting you and PM have on your PH profiles?!

[don'tbesilly]

vonuber said:

sidicks said:

Plenty of insults from Remainers in the last hour or two but PM is conspicuous by his absence!

Actually, it appears to be a page of everyone insulting helicopter123.

Really? The evidence is easily missed, you have much in common with another poster.

Trolleys Thank You said:

Using facts as bait to go gammon fishing.

Admiring your work.

[Tuna]

Helicopter123 said:

I use BBC and Sky, and Channel 4 news (the latter excellent). FT, Economist, Independent, Times and Guardian for printed media. LBC for a balance of views.

You really should step out of the Brexit echo chamber and listen to either neutral or opposing views, delivered by trusted credible sources. You may not shift your point of view, but you may understand why others hold opposing views.

Look, you are getting some flack at the moment, but that is a quite astonishing list.

If you think Farage on LBC constitutes a balance to the rest of those items, you're really not getting anything to challenge you.

Just to be clear, I'm not insulting you, but there is absolutely no point in responding to your posts. You're not interested in other people's opinions, and I wouldn't want to reinforce that bias by hurting your feelings in any way.

[gooner1]

jsf said:

Bless.

The discussion was not about me being called thick (the only one on this board saying that about me is you, i can live with that ), PM made a statement that it was only leave voters that insulted remainers, that was then agreed with by another poster, there is over two years of evidence to prove that is a lie.

I didn't say anything about all leavers being insulted, although if you take slashers posts into account he did go down that route plenty enough times over the years, but nice deflection tactic you tried there.

Carney and his decisions discussion has only been twisted by you to suggest i don't know the role of the MPC, the whole lot have been dire in their decisions during the aftermath of the Brexit vote, Carney being the chairman of the committee and head honcho gets the brunt of the pressure because he is the one driving the debate and making the public comments, something the other MPC members are specifically banned from doing under their contract terms.

Keep on crying JJ, it's achieving nothing, the UK is on its way out of the EU, learn to live with that.

The inclusion of the word "all" in this instance by jim jim ,didn't go unnoticed.
Sneaky, but not surprising .

Edited by gooner1 on Tuesday 18th September 21:17

[wc98]

Jazzy Jag said:

Commissioning a report is actively which, to the casual observer, looks a lot like progress but without the need to actually do any work.

that would appear to be the way of it on many occasions.

[loafer123]

I see that Barnier is now offering to be more flexible on Customs checks between GB and NI...very generous...I think he misunderstands that there will be no checks between different parts of the country.

[Helicopter123]

Tuna said:

Helicopter123 said:

I use BBC and Sky, and Channel 4 news (the latter excellent). FT, Economist, Independent, Times and Guardian for printed media. LBC for a balance of views.

You really should step out of the Brexit echo chamber and listen to either neutral or opposing views, delivered by trusted credible sources. You may not shift your point of view, but you may understand why others hold opposing views.

Look, you are getting some flack at the moment, but that is a quite astonishing list.

If you think Farage on LBC constitutes a balance to the rest of those items, you're really not getting anything to challenge you.

Just to be clear, I'm not insulting you, but there is absolutely no point in responding to your posts. You're not interested in other people's opinions, and I wouldn't want to reinforce that bias by hurting your feelings in any way.

Please do educate me - where do you get credible pro-brexit editorial from main stream publication, newspaper, radio or TV? I'm looking for proper edited content that passes journalistic scrutiny.

LBC gives Farage and JRM a regular platform, and a fair hearing.

Edited by Helicopter123 on Tuesday 18th September 22:00

[Tankrizzo]

Trolleys Thank You said:

You can tell Brexit isn't going well when it's the absolute dregs left defending it in this thread. The dregs who wont even bother talk about its benefits anymore.

Of course, you have to appreciate the humour in being called "dregs" by an individual who joined a car forum purely to troll a news subforum, acted like a knob until he got banned, and has such an empty life that he made a second account to come back to the car forum and continue to troll the news subforum.

Didn't you, JawKnee.

[Murph7355]

loafer123 said:

I see that Barnier is now offering to be more flexible on Customs checks between GB and NI...very generous...I think he misunderstands that there will be no checks between different parts of the country.

What he seems to be suggesting is something some on here said was impossible.

The fear of losing the 39bn starting to set in? Faux indignation at Chequers now being replaced with a softening to make it sound like a good deal?

Project Fear mkII has been in full ramp up mode over the last month to do a similar thing internally.

We'll see. But parliament needs to keep reflecting on the headline reasons why the vote happened in the first place, even if May/Robbins are incapable.

[sidicks]

Tankrizzo said:

Of course, you have to appreciate the humour in being called "dregs" by an individual who joined a car forum purely to troll a news subforum, acted like a knob until he got banned, and has such an empty life that he made a second account to come back to the car forum and continue to troll the news subforum.

Didn't you, JawKnee.

But surely if that was true, the mods would need to step in and take appropriate action...?

[loafer123]

Murph7355 said:

loafer123 said:

I see that Barnier is now offering to be more flexible on Customs checks between GB and NI...very generous...I think he misunderstands that there will be no checks between different parts of the country.

What he seems to be suggesting is something some on here said was impossible.

The fear of losing the 39bn starting to set in? Faux indignation at Chequers now being replaced with a softening to make it sound like a good deal?

Project Fear mkII has been in full ramp up mode over the last month to do a similar thing internally.

We'll see. But parliament needs to keep reflecting on the headline reasons why the vote happened in the first place, even if May/Robbins are incapable.

He is suggesting that NI remains in the Single Market and Customs Union under the backstop.

[Jazzy Jag]

sidicks said:

Tankrizzo said:

Of course, you have to appreciate the humour in being called "dregs" by an individual who joined a car forum purely to troll a news subforum, acted like a knob until he got banned, and has such an empty life that he made a second account to come back to the car forum and continue to troll the news subforum.

Didn't you, JawKnee.

But surely if that was true, the mods would need to step in and take appropriate action...?

How would they find out?

[Welshbeef]

Trolleys Thank You said:

Using facts as bait to go gammon fishing.

Admiring your work.

Is that some anti Jew comment? Gammon??