How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 4)
Discussion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6197169/T...
A GE could be fought on the desired terms of brexit I guess thus avoiding a 2nd referendum.
Another £140m wasted though.
A GE could be fought on the desired terms of brexit I guess thus avoiding a 2nd referendum.
Another £140m wasted though.
If Labour include a 2nd referendum in their manifesto, as looks increasingly likely, the pollsters will jizz themselves, there'll be swings in voters everywhere, locally, nationally, in my back garden, everywhere.
If these polls show a swing to Labour (and I think they will, we are a pragmatic people more than principled), the Conservatives will panic, they'll be facing election loss, possibly through a vote of no confidence as the pro-EU Tory MPs go into meltdown over their seats.
Then who knows what will happen, TM could resign, they could U turn on the second ref themselves to prevent disaster.
In any case the next couple of weeks will be great to watch.
If these polls show a swing to Labour (and I think they will, we are a pragmatic people more than principled), the Conservatives will panic, they'll be facing election loss, possibly through a vote of no confidence as the pro-EU Tory MPs go into meltdown over their seats.
Then who knows what will happen, TM could resign, they could U turn on the second ref themselves to prevent disaster.
In any case the next couple of weeks will be great to watch.
Vanden Saab said:
Can you describe the circumstances under which the tories would vote against their own party in sufficient numbers in a vote of no confidence?
and I am not sure of the internal party rules but surely voting against your own party in a vote of no confidence would result in automatic deselection?We are not talking about a dispute over a particularly item of policy but whether your own party should stay in office.
PurpleMoonlight said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6197169/T...
A GE could be fought on the desired terms of brexit I guess thus avoiding a 2nd referendum.
Another £140m wasted though.
Happy with that as long as they stand on a manifesto of leaving regardless of whether there is a deal or not, and deselect any MP that would stand on such a manifesto and then vote differently.A GE could be fought on the desired terms of brexit I guess thus avoiding a 2nd referendum.
Another £140m wasted though.
Realistically Labour would probably become the largest party in a fresh election, but the main point is the Tories not betraying their core vote and not splitting the right wing vote for at least a generation.
PurpleMoonlight said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6197169/T...
A GE could be fought on the desired terms of brexit I guess thus avoiding a 2nd referendum.
Another £140m wasted though.
I'm sure leave voters will be more than happy to keep having General Elections to get what they are now deciding Brexit will be.A GE could be fought on the desired terms of brexit I guess thus avoiding a 2nd referendum.
Another £140m wasted though.
I really don't know why we had General elections before Brexit it appears to be the only reason we need them now.
There are reports on the news right now that the Labour leadership (Corbyn/Watson) are coming around to a commitment to hold another referendum IF THE PARTY MEMBERSHIP vote for this at the conference.
Given the surge in Momentum / Labour members (in a demographic sense) it is probable that there would be a vote for another referendum. But..... The party is not in power, the only way they can force another referendum is by winning a GE.
I posted several pages ago that I think the UK electorate are bored to the back teeth of Brexit.... there are a thousand things our politicians should be concentrating on .... a thousand things other than Brexit. The LD's tried to make a second referendum their core policy and as a result, in the 2017 GE, managed to increase their parliamentary representation by 50%. From 8 MPs to 12 MPs!
Whilst the Remain are getting all excited about the possibility of another referendum I suspect that wiser political council will prevail.
There has been interesting analysis of the Referendum results by a Professor Chris Hanretty.
This is linked to in this: https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
OK the UK split was 52:48 but if you analyse the split by constituency and not area then 70% of Conservative constituencies and 60% of Labour constituencies votes LEAVE. (My figures are from Fullfact.org, please read the link, above, before disputing them)
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Labour Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
Source: https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/1583077391...
Given the surge in Momentum / Labour members (in a demographic sense) it is probable that there would be a vote for another referendum. But..... The party is not in power, the only way they can force another referendum is by winning a GE.
I posted several pages ago that I think the UK electorate are bored to the back teeth of Brexit.... there are a thousand things our politicians should be concentrating on .... a thousand things other than Brexit. The LD's tried to make a second referendum their core policy and as a result, in the 2017 GE, managed to increase their parliamentary representation by 50%. From 8 MPs to 12 MPs!
Whilst the Remain are getting all excited about the possibility of another referendum I suspect that wiser political council will prevail.
There has been interesting analysis of the Referendum results by a Professor Chris Hanretty.
This is linked to in this: https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
OK the UK split was 52:48 but if you analyse the split by constituency and not area then 70% of Conservative constituencies and 60% of Labour constituencies votes LEAVE. (My figures are from Fullfact.org, please read the link, above, before disputing them)
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Labour Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
Source: https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/1583077391...
Edited by alfaspecial on Sunday 23 September 08:19
alfaspecial said:
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Political Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
The current Labour leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of socialism. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience. They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
Jonesy23 said:
alfaspecial said:
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Political Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
The current Labour leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of socialism. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience. They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
The current Conservative leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of Brexit. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience.
They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
We are cursed with utterly useless politicians on both sides of the commons.
Troubleatmill said:
Helicopter123 said:
Apparently, The Observer have a Poll showing 9/10 Labour Party members support a second referendum on the ultimate options for Brexit, with remain on the ballot paper.
This will place massive pressure on the leadership to adopt as policy.
Very important couple of weeks ahead.
And yet Electorate > MembersThis will place massive pressure on the leadership to adopt as policy.
Very important couple of weeks ahead.
Labour enthusiasts seem to forget this. Members can make a party unelectable.
The Labour enthusiasts seem to not realise just how unpleasantly they are viewed. Suspect they don't care.
Jonesy23 said:
alfaspecial said:
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Political Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
The current Labour leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of socialism. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience. They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
If I were the Labour leadership I would appease the Remain element within the party with a possible (Manifesto commitment to hold) another referendum after Brexit (if Brexit doesn't work out) But in the meantime I would force MPs to vote through Brexit but on the best possible terms for (potential) Labour supporters. That way a bad Brexit would be a 'Tory' Brexit but the Labour Party could claim credit for a good Brexit - ie Changes to Labour relations laws etc
There has always been a longstanding case for left wing support of Brexit. (Tony Benn et al.)
OK this is a couple of years old (*time of referendum) but
http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/...
The Labour Party could/should use May's split party as a weapon to get a more left wing (Labour) Brexit rather than a (harder) right wing (Conservatives) Brexit.
Troubleatmill said:
Whatever happened to Lembit Opik?
I can see a lot of MP's going the same way if Brexit is overturned.
The only positive I can see from overturning Brexit is that at some point in the not too distant future the current crop of hopeless politicos will get a reaming at the ballot box that will make VBRJ feel like a comforting and reassuring tap on the shoulder.I can see a lot of MP's going the same way if Brexit is overturned.
Troubleatmill said:
Sheets Tabuer said:
Troubleatmill said:
it is a question on honour, principle etc.
You know they are MPs?Adolf Hitler murdered 6m Jews.
To suggest that these are in anyway comparable is sickening. Not even the most ardent of brexit supporter would support your comments.
I would suggest that you remove your post.
Edited by andy.mod on Sunday 23 September 09:43
Tryke3 said:
I dont, not claiming so. I do however understand where investment went and it wasnt the northern powerhouse. Personally i cant wait until the time comes that we start looking at those offshore bank accounts, should be quite soon after brexit i hope
What do you expect to find?frisbee said:
Jonesy23 said:
alfaspecial said:
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Political Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
The current Labour leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of socialism. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience. They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
The current Conservative leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of Brexit. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience.
FiF said:
The only positive I can see from overturning Brexit is that at some point in the not too distant future the current crop of hopeless politicos will get a reaming at the ballot box that will make VBRJ feel like a comforting and reassuring tap on the shoulder.
Brexit it worth it, if only to shut up Farage once and for all.
alfaspecial said:
There are reports on the news right now that the Labour leadership (Corbyn/Watson) are coming around to a commitment to hold another referendum IF THE PARTY MEMBERSHIP vote for this at the conference.
Given the surge in Momentum / Labour members (in a demographic sense) it is probable that there would be a vote for another referendum. But..... The party is not in power, the only way they can force another referendum is by winning a GE.
I posted several pages ago that I think the UK electorate are bored to the back teeth of Brexit.... there are a thousand things our politicians should be concentrating on .... a thousand things other than Brexit. The LD's tried to make a second referendum their core policy and as a result, in the 2017 GE, managed to increase their parliamentary representation by 50%. From 8 MPs to 12 MPs!
Whilst the Remain are getting all excited about the possibility of another referendum I suspect that wiser political council will prevail.
There has been interesting analysis of the Referendum results by a Professor Chris Hanretty.
This is linked to in this: https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
OK the UK split was 52:48 but if you analyse the split by constituency and not area then 70% of Conservative constituencies and 60% of Labour constituencies votes LEAVE. (My figures are from Fullfact.org, please read the link, above, before disputing them)
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Labour Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
Source: https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/1583077391...
Interesting to compare that map with the map of current MPs....Given the surge in Momentum / Labour members (in a demographic sense) it is probable that there would be a vote for another referendum. But..... The party is not in power, the only way they can force another referendum is by winning a GE.
I posted several pages ago that I think the UK electorate are bored to the back teeth of Brexit.... there are a thousand things our politicians should be concentrating on .... a thousand things other than Brexit. The LD's tried to make a second referendum their core policy and as a result, in the 2017 GE, managed to increase their parliamentary representation by 50%. From 8 MPs to 12 MPs!
Whilst the Remain are getting all excited about the possibility of another referendum I suspect that wiser political council will prevail.
There has been interesting analysis of the Referendum results by a Professor Chris Hanretty.
This is linked to in this: https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
OK the UK split was 52:48 but if you analyse the split by constituency and not area then 70% of Conservative constituencies and 60% of Labour constituencies votes LEAVE. (My figures are from Fullfact.org, please read the link, above, before disputing them)
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Labour Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
Source: https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/1583077391...
Edited by alfaspecial on Sunday 23 September 08:19
Labour would be utterly decimated....
Helicopter123 said:
Adolf Hitler murdered 6m Jews.
To suggest that these are in anyway comparable is sickening. Not even the most ardent of brexit supporter would support your comments.
I would suggest that you remove your post.
Hitler didn't murder a single Jew - he and the rest of Germany however definitely had a hand to play in it.To suggest that these are in anyway comparable is sickening. Not even the most ardent of brexit supporter would support your comments.
I would suggest that you remove your post.
frisbee said:
Jonesy23 said:
alfaspecial said:
The Labour leadership should consider just what in order to win power. And the most important part of the party is not the Parliamentary Political Party and certainly not the Membership but potential voters. And outside of the large urban areas most constituencies voted leave
The current Labour leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of socialism. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience. They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
The current Conservative leadership is a bunch of mental subnormals who only care about their twisted version of Brexit. They don't care about the voters; they're just an inconvenience.
They never let reality intrude on their ideas so why would they worry about what the proles think? The people should do what they're told and be grateful for their weekly turnip.
We are cursed with utterly useless politicians on both sides of the commons.
https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/104349055709863...
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