Are labour antisemitic?
Discussion
That way I see it, it's a necessary evil for them. Collateral damage in their support for Palestine and defence of Corbyn.
See the way Labour MPs who stood against in elections him were attacked. The fact that this is the enemy of their friend is a bonus. The notion of a 'Tory Jewish media' also helps their allegations of a smear. While the Tunisian memorial photo was dragged from the archives, something happens every week so they're certainly making it easy for the papers. Moreover social media is playing a massive part in exposing the MPs' transgressions.
There's a melting pot of Rothschild conspiracy theorists, pro-Palestinian activists, Corbynites and general leftists who wade in to dismiss antisemitism. All this misdirected support can only really give momentum to anti Jewish sentiment.
Then there's the whole semantic debate of what construes racism, and the official Labour definition of antisemitism (the mere idea that that was up for debate should be enough of a signal). At best there's an air of associating all Jewish people with the actions of Israel and thus not really liking them. I don't know what you'd call that but it's not really acceptable especially not by left-wing standards. That ultimately is the feeling that prevails in the party. Where this got out of hand is the vehement denial, talk of 'smears' and 'witch-hunts' and attacks on anyone (usually the poor moderates) who challenged Momentum members on it.
It's more a Momentum thing, but then if you're New Labour you might as well be in the IDF.
See the way Labour MPs who stood against in elections him were attacked. The fact that this is the enemy of their friend is a bonus. The notion of a 'Tory Jewish media' also helps their allegations of a smear. While the Tunisian memorial photo was dragged from the archives, something happens every week so they're certainly making it easy for the papers. Moreover social media is playing a massive part in exposing the MPs' transgressions.
There's a melting pot of Rothschild conspiracy theorists, pro-Palestinian activists, Corbynites and general leftists who wade in to dismiss antisemitism. All this misdirected support can only really give momentum to anti Jewish sentiment.
Then there's the whole semantic debate of what construes racism, and the official Labour definition of antisemitism (the mere idea that that was up for debate should be enough of a signal). At best there's an air of associating all Jewish people with the actions of Israel and thus not really liking them. I don't know what you'd call that but it's not really acceptable especially not by left-wing standards. That ultimately is the feeling that prevails in the party. Where this got out of hand is the vehement denial, talk of 'smears' and 'witch-hunts' and attacks on anyone (usually the poor moderates) who challenged Momentum members on it.
It's more a Momentum thing, but then if you're New Labour you might as well be in the IDF.
warch said:
On a related note he is also pro Brexit which I am definitely not, but at least he has maintained this stance since at least the mid-80s, and hasn't adopted this position for political benefit unlike say Theresa May or Boris Johnson.
His pro-Brexit stance has suddenly turned into one of not saying much on the subject knowing full well lots of his youngsters who follow/worship him would leave him in droves if they thought he was very pro-Brexit and spoke out about the EU.So he's just the opposite to what you're saying, not very sincere at all.
LoonyTunes said:
Who consorts with people who murder Jewish people "simply because they are jewish"?
Does Netanyahu kill Palestinians "simply because they Arabic/Muslim"?
Corbyn, with Hamas, whose charter calls for all Jews to be killed. Not Israelis, not Israeli Jews, but all Jews, everywhere.Does Netanyahu kill Palestinians "simply because they Arabic/Muslim"?
And Corbyn describes them as friends.
His claim after the event that he was trying to bring people together would only be believable had he actually spoken with Israel at the same time.
This insidious demonisation of whole swathes of people, whether Jews or Muslims is destroying the democratic process in the UK and Europe.
By which I mean that the electorate has split upon tribal lines, religion, ethnicity, extreme right and left.
There is very little middle ground.
It is rather like in the Middle East and Africa where tribal affiliations control the voting of the electorate.
The mishandling of the constant flow of immigrants has destabilised the status quo in Europe.
Add to this the fact that our wars in the Middle East has greatly exacerbated the immigrant problem.
The banking crisis and the austerity programme that followed it has added fuel to the flames as had the growing disparity between the minority haves and the have nots.
What a mess which has mainly been caused by our politicians in Europe and the USA.
A combination of virtue signalling and sheer arrogance.
A " we know what's best for you" attitude that has caused resentment and dissallusionment.
The mainstream politicians by their policies have been a gift to the populist politicians that know the buttons to press in order to gain support.
By which I mean that the electorate has split upon tribal lines, religion, ethnicity, extreme right and left.
There is very little middle ground.
It is rather like in the Middle East and Africa where tribal affiliations control the voting of the electorate.
The mishandling of the constant flow of immigrants has destabilised the status quo in Europe.
Add to this the fact that our wars in the Middle East has greatly exacerbated the immigrant problem.
The banking crisis and the austerity programme that followed it has added fuel to the flames as had the growing disparity between the minority haves and the have nots.
What a mess which has mainly been caused by our politicians in Europe and the USA.
A combination of virtue signalling and sheer arrogance.
A " we know what's best for you" attitude that has caused resentment and dissallusionment.
The mainstream politicians by their policies have been a gift to the populist politicians that know the buttons to press in order to gain support.
warch said:
I think the difference between Israel and all the other countries where nasty things occur is that Israel is supposed to be one of our allies (via the US).
Corbyn tends to take an anti war, anti violence stance. During the 80's he was a staunch critic of all of the sides in The Troubles in Northern Ireland for example. He has similarly supported the aims of HAMAS in the past but now says he regrets his association with them.
And yet - convicted IRA terrorists he called "Political Prisoners".Corbyn tends to take an anti war, anti violence stance. During the 80's he was a staunch critic of all of the sides in The Troubles in Northern Ireland for example. He has similarly supported the aims of HAMAS in the past but now says he regrets his association with them.
Troubleatmill said:
warch said:
I think the difference between Israel and all the other countries where nasty things occur is that Israel is supposed to be one of our allies (via the US).
Corbyn tends to take an anti war, anti violence stance. During the 80's he was a staunch critic of all of the sides in The Troubles in Northern Ireland for example. He has similarly supported the aims of HAMAS in the past but now says he regrets his association with them.
And yet - convicted IRA terrorists he called "Political Prisoners".Corbyn tends to take an anti war, anti violence stance. During the 80's he was a staunch critic of all of the sides in The Troubles in Northern Ireland for example. He has similarly supported the aims of HAMAS in the past but now says he regrets his association with them.
Russian Troll Bot said:
Where did he staunchly criticise the Republicans and say he regretted his association with Hamas?
He did not single out the IRA (you've misquoted what I said there) but he criticised all sides involved in the Troubleshttps://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...
As for regretting calling Hamas friends try,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/j...
warch said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
Where did he staunchly criticise the Republicans and say he regretted his association with Hamas?
He did not single out the IRA (you've misquoted what I said there) but he criticised all sides involved in the Troubleshttps://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...
As for regretting calling Hamas friends try,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/j...
James_B said:
LoonyTunes said:
Who consorts with people who murder Jewish people "simply because they are jewish"?
Does Netanyahu kill Palestinians "simply because they Arabic/Muslim"?
Corbyn, with Hamas, whose charter calls for all Jews to be killed. Not Israelis, not Israeli Jews, but all Jews, everywhere.Does Netanyahu kill Palestinians "simply because they Arabic/Muslim"?
And Corbyn describes them as friends.
1. Can you show me the actual phrase in the ‘charter’ that calls for ALL Jews to be killed.
2. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/j...
warch said:
He did not single out the IRA (you've misquoted what I said there) but he criticised all sides involved in the Troubles
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...
As for regretting calling Hamas friends try,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/j...
Regretting it is at least something.https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-...
As for regretting calling Hamas friends try,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/j...
He's a curious one, he makes mistakes (from a political standpoint) but won't apologise unless he believes he actually has done wrong, like in the 'friends' comment thing, he is sincere in is conviction (more than most high ranking MPs anyway), but it doesn't make things easy for him.
Halb said:
Regretting it is at least something.
He's a curious one, he makes mistakes (from a political standpoint) but won't apologise unless he believes he actually has done wrong, like in the 'friends' comment thing, he is sincere in is conviction (more than most high ranking MPs anyway), but it doesn't make things easy for him.
Being sincere in his convictions does not make him or anyone else right.He's a curious one, he makes mistakes (from a political standpoint) but won't apologise unless he believes he actually has done wrong, like in the 'friends' comment thing, he is sincere in is conviction (more than most high ranking MPs anyway), but it doesn't make things easy for him.
As a backbencher for most of his career he could not expect to come under such scrutiny as would a leader of the Labour Party.
He definitely consorted with some extremist bedfellows and I find his constant statement that he is a man of peace always looking for a peaceful solution to a be disingenuous.
Since he became an MP there have been many different Israeli governments of all political hues and I cannot understand if a peaceful and just solution to the Israeli / Palestinian problem was his true agenda why he made so little effort to engage with any of those governments, rather than consort with extremists whose agenda was the destruction of the State of Israel.
He has made his bed and now he and his supporters cry foul when his convictions come under that scrutiny.
Lets be honest, he knew full well what he was saying and who he was mixing with. The trouble started when he was elected leader , more by accident from Labour dolts who nominated him to keep in with the left of the party, only to distance themselves when Labour members shot themselves in the foot and elected the fool.
He was always meant to be the back bench idiot and never even to make it to cabinet level, let alone leader.
He was always meant to be the back bench idiot and never even to make it to cabinet level, let alone leader.
Halb said:
Regretting it is at least something.
He's a curious one, he makes mistakes (from a political standpoint) but won't apologise unless he believes he actually has done wrong, like in the 'friends' comment thing, he is sincere in is conviction (more than most high ranking MPs anyway), but it doesn't make things easy for him.
I think that comes from him genuinely being a bit dim. I don't think he really has the ability to think through and connect his actions.He's a curious one, he makes mistakes (from a political standpoint) but won't apologise unless he believes he actually has done wrong, like in the 'friends' comment thing, he is sincere in is conviction (more than most high ranking MPs anyway), but it doesn't make things easy for him.
gadgetmac said:
Interesting, lets see how true both of thse points are:
1. Can you show me the actual phrase in the ‘charter’ that calls for ALL Jews to be killed.
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.1. Can you show me the actual phrase in the ‘charter’ that calls for ALL Jews to be killed.
....
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.
...
Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.
...
Some of Article 7 is hilarious:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
So much more bats
t crazy stuff in it. All absolutely lapped up by keffiyeh wearing lefties who “really want peace” - bleating on about a two state solution, when Hamas has never and will never accept such a thing.Good news everyone: they have found a scapegoat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...
All media attention on this ex MP from now on. He may have made some comments in the past on social media.
Owen jones: mobilise your twitter followers please
Comrade corbyn, abbot et al: can you make the sunday morning politics shows? If not, send chris wiliamson quick
Whatever you do, dont highlight that Corbyn had to delete his entire facebook entry due to his links with anti semetic groups.
We need to show everyone we are serious, and we will act on anti senitism. As John Mcdonell said "we are anti racist and anti semetic...er... anti anti semetic
Now, about a Tory making a joke about an item of clothing worn to emasculate women...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-po...
All media attention on this ex MP from now on. He may have made some comments in the past on social media.
Owen jones: mobilise your twitter followers please
Comrade corbyn, abbot et al: can you make the sunday morning politics shows? If not, send chris wiliamson quick
Whatever you do, dont highlight that Corbyn had to delete his entire facebook entry due to his links with anti semetic groups.
We need to show everyone we are serious, and we will act on anti senitism. As John Mcdonell said "we are anti racist and anti semetic...er... anti anti semetic
Now, about a Tory making a joke about an item of clothing worn to emasculate women...
ukwill said:
gadgetmac said:
Interesting, lets see how true both of thse points are:
1. Can you show me the actual phrase in the ‘charter’ that calls for ALL Jews to be killed.
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.1. Can you show me the actual phrase in the ‘charter’ that calls for ALL Jews to be killed.
....
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.
...
Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.
...
Some of Article 7 is hilarious:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
So much more bats
t crazy stuff in it. All absolutely lapped up by keffiyeh wearing lefties who “really want peace” - bleating on about a two state solution, when Hamas has never and will never accept such a thing.It is not a call for ALL Jews (everywhere) to be killed.
The latest charter (2017) states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region". The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion" of Islam.
In 2008, the Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, stated that Hamas would agree to accept a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, and to offer a long-term truce with Israel.
In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."
gadgetmac said:
In 2008, the Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, stated that Hamas would agree to accept a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders, and to offer a long-term truce with Israel.
In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."
Long term truce = hudna. I suspect point 2 in the 'Background' paragraph of this article is the preferred outcome for hamas: http://reut-institute.org/Publication.aspx?Publica... See also note 11In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons."
As for khaled mashaal sudenly becoming some sort of moderate negotiator willing to give up an inch of what the arabs refer to as palestine, i.e. the whole of Israel......v
Back to topic: Labour are behaving in this fashion in order to appease their muslim electorate, which is some 10 times larger than their potential Jewish one. QED.
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