Here we go again - 4 killed in BMW...
Discussion
Alpinestars said:
Agreed. Predominantly, what we are dealing with is the potentially lethal combination of "young men and cars". To which these days, I would certainly add young women too; they've stepped up to the mark in recent years too.Digga said:
Agreed. Predominantly, what we are dealing with is the potentially lethal combination of "young men and cars".
Always been so.But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
TooMany2cvs said:
Always been so.
But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
Also a lot more cash and credit readily available for them to get hold of powerful motors.But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
Today's update, the car overtook two police cars at speed before crashing
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/speedi...
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/speedi...
Killer2005 said:
Today's update, the car overtook two police cars at speed before crashing
https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/speedi...
Pursued for 34 secs by unmarked police carhttps://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/speedi...
Doesnt say lights, or level of pursuit
In the past posters have talked about trying to get away from something following them only for it to turn out to be a 'friendly' police car
TooMany2cvs said:
Always been so.
But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
I was pondering this myself.But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
I'm heartened to see there are still newly minted petrolheads on the roads. Young men and women who have a passion for cars. As much as I feel bad for them in having to try to enjoy cars in the era of smart roads, scameras and huge environmental guilt, on the plus side, really really nice driver's cars are far more prevalent and accessible. There are some really nice, cheap cars that are a lot of fun to drive and yes, as you say, very powerful too.
TooMany2cvs said:
Digga said:
Agreed. Predominantly, what we are dealing with is the potentially lethal combination of "young men and cars".
Always been so.But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
I remember going round in my mates 1.3 L MK3, plenty fast enough to kill us, and not woefully slow but you still had time to think as it accelerated, modern stuff like I see getting hammered between lights in Manchester is orders of magnitude more accelerative even than the fastest MK3 Escort, an RS Turbo. I was driving up to a roundabout under the Mancunian way a few weeks back and a couple of young lads in an 08 S3 wanted to prove how fast it was, I didn't goad or incite and they went to overtake across a pedestrian crossing and only just stopped.
An S3 isnt massively fast nowadays, but its still twice that RS Turbo and does 100 in 12 seconds or so, getting on for twice as fast as the RS Turbo, and 100 in a 1.3 was possible but I am guessing it would take over a minute, with a strong tailwind.
The electronics, tyres etc have mitigate some of the performance increase, as realistically they would come to grief much sooner if it wasnt there, not sure I would fancy my M135i in the wet without ESP, at least until I had time and space to get used to it, a powerful, turbocharged engine, fairly small with an auto box.
I do wonder how young lads in inner cities get hold of, and insure cars like that, either huge amounts of money are spent or they arent insured, or there is a long and complicated story involving a trade policy. I know how much it costs to insure a 1 litre car for a young driver, in a low risk area.
TooMany2cvs said:
Always been so.
But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
Agreed. I suspect there are lots of drivers who stay on the black stuff as a result of electronics, but who don’t appreciate that that’s the case, or that the electronics can’t beat fundamental rules of physics. But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
Alpinestars said:
Agreed. I suspect there are lots of drivers who stay on the black stuff as a result of electronics, but who don’t appreciate that that’s the case, or that the electronics can’t beat fundamental rules of physics.
Going back a good way now, at TVR Car Club track days, it was invariably the 'token' Subaru Impreza/Mistubishi Evo that ended up in the gravel. More often than not, upside down.Alpinestars said:
Agreed. I suspect there are lots of drivers who stay on the black stuff as a result of electronics, but who don’t appreciate that that’s the case, or that the electronics can’t beat fundamental rules of physics.
And here is the crux of it - all the driver aids have made modern cars very stable and safe in normal and not so normal conditions people have what should be a brown trouser moment and the car sorts it all out for them - when they have another moment that exceeds the capability of the on board electronics it's likely to be quite catastrophic for driver/passenger and anyone else involve in the resultI learnt to drive in a car with no syncro - when a clutch cable failed i was able to still drive the car home..... I was trying to explain how to a neighbour who's clutch cyl also recently failed - he thought it was witchcraft!!!!
Some of the youngsters that work in the same place I do are convinced that in any circumstances the car electronics will sort it all out so they drive like lunatics.....
The art of learning to drive, roadcraft and all the understanding of what the heck is going on underneath your bum is basically not needed anymore - unfortunately I'd say it's needed even more.
I spent the other morning teaching my niece how to service her car - plugs, air filter, oil and filter - just the basics - she'd owned it 2 years and never checked the oil, water or anything - I only realised when she said it was getting difficult to start - the oil was at the bottom of the dipstick and like molasses, there was no coolant in the header tank and I could have driven thro the plug gaps.........
Why hadn't she checked anything - well a MOT is a service isn't it? It's had two MOT's and nothing was needed.
It starts very nicely now and is a lot quieter - just waiting for the question why is my car using less fuel???
It's not just kids though. I flagged a bloke off the M6 a month or two back. He'd overtaken as he'd joined the motorway in his new Jaguar XE with the O/S rear tyre as flat as a pancake. He slowed after overtaking and I re-passed and gave the horn a polite 'toot' and gestured, at his back wheel. He nodded, and slowed right down, by which I took it to mean either he'd realised what I was on about or knew already but decided to embark on a motorway journey. Either way, he was a total muppet, needlessly endangering the lives of other road users.
TooMany2cvs said:
vsonix said:
One only has to look at footage of 'Tawfeet'/'Hajwala' AKA 'Arab Drifting' to see that. The aim isn't really to be graceful, it's more like bring the car up to maximum speed, deliberately lose control and see if you don't die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7lJ30XRJOk&t=...The white Kia... That's fresh dealer, isn't it? Door protectors, window sticker with spec etc...
And the silver one at 1m00s.
And the black one that gets stacked in the next cut, along with his mate that pulls up when he comes to a stop... They've even got the panel protection film on...
Do none of these numpties ever think about losing their jobs?
I expect they only get in trouble if they can't afford to bribe their way out. If they get caught which they probably don't if the will isn't there. I would imagine the law would only be involved if someone dies, or you can't pay your way out of whatever mess you created. Otherwise, bring back a wrecked Kia, throw two Kias worth of Dirhams at the guy on the desk and carry on with life.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOW1gMGmNSY
47:50 a major contibution to road safety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_2RLAIjroE
http://www.sirrobertmark.co.uk/the-goodyear-projec...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOW1gMGmNSY
47:50 a major contibution to road safety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_2RLAIjroE
http://www.sirrobertmark.co.uk/the-goodyear-projec...
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 7th August 15:56
TooMany2cvs said:
Always been so.
But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
i was just talking about this today with a mate. the corner speed needed today in a hot hatch to feel like you are having fun is massively faster. i also wonder if the esp keeps trying to keep the car pointing straight once the grip goes ? i can think of at least two occasions where mates would have been in far more trouble had they not hit the scenery going backwards,one in a mark 2 escort,the other a peugeot gti.But compared to a decade or three ago, attainable cars are much, much faster than they were. Even a laden 116d - compare it to a laden (and tired) Mk3 Escort 1.3...
Sure, they have much greater secondary safety - survivability. Up to a point. Ain't nothin' getting out after a three-figure-speed meeting with a tree. Well, except for a bit of jam seeping out the doors. But that survivability means there's a sense of invincibility.
Add in all the electronic bottom-wipers that mean everybody's a driving god (albeit with a flashy dash light) right up until the point Isaac Newton washes his hands of the whole business, and when it goes pear-shaped, there's nothing bar the scenery catching it.
Hit an effectively imovable object such as a mature tree like they did, with the speed they were carrying, doesn’t matter which way you hit it, your going to die most likely. Internal injuries and bleeding to go with whatever obvious damage you do. Brain damage too from the deceleration and slamming into whatever you hit.
TTmonkey said:
Hit an effectively imovable object such as a mature tree like they did, with the speed they were carrying, doesn’t matter which way you hit it, your going to die most likely. Internal injuries and bleeding to go with whatever obvious damage you do. Brain damage too from the deceleration and slamming into whatever you hit.
I've seen a few accidents where cars have hit trees, and at significant speed. In all the cases the occupants were alive, most even removing themselves. The trick seems to be to not hit it head on, going straight at it. Some lateral movement, or just enough to spin it, and most of the danger is gone.
Digga said:
It's not just kids though. I flagged a bloke off the M6 a month or two back. He'd overtaken as he'd joined the motorway in his new Jaguar XE with the O/S rear tyre as flat as a pancake. He slowed after overtaking and I re-passed and gave the horn a polite 'toot' and gestured, at his back wheel. He nodded, and slowed right down, by which I took it to mean either he'd realised what I was on about or knew already but decided to embark on a motorway journey. Either way, he was a total muppet, needlessly endangering the lives of other road users.
How exactly was he a total muppet? If your desciption is accurate he noticed you signalling him and slowed down, presumably to stop somewhere, and if he'd already slowed down after overtaking you maybe the tyre had just gone flat and he'd already realised. What were you expecting him to do? Teleport to the hard shoulder? Climb out the window and change the tyre on the move?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff