Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)
Discussion
psi310398 said:
Page ‘doesn’t exist’ apparentlyWell.
Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
techiedave said:
Well.
Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Is that Labours stance this week? Last week it was to negotiate a deal, then have a referendum, but campaign against the deal.Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Personally Corbyn has been a leaver, a remainer, and now neutral?
Is he suffering from dementia?
98elise said:
Is that Labours stance this week? Last week it was to negotiate a deal, then have a referendum, but campaign against the deal.
Personally Corbyn has been a leaver, a remainer, and now neutral?
Is he suffering from dementia?
Dementia suggests that he has lost brain power. Not sure that’s true in this case.Personally Corbyn has been a leaver, a remainer, and now neutral?
Is he suffering from dementia?
NJH said:
You are assuming Cameron had honest intentions when he called the referendum.
He did it for one reason only, to try and see off the hard Brexit part of his own party. He gambled and lost. Way to go Dave.
No he did not, he called it because of pressure from the electorate wanted it, this was proven by LEAVE winning the ref (not that remainers can accept that maths)He did it for one reason only, to try and see off the hard Brexit part of his own party. He gambled and lost. Way to go Dave.
Le Controleur Horizontal said:
NJH said:
You are assuming Cameron had honest intentions when he called the referendum.
He did it for one reason only, to try and see off the hard Brexit part of his own party. He gambled and lost. Way to go Dave.
No he did not, he called it because of pressure from the electorate wanted it, this was proven by LEAVE winning the ref (not that remainers can accept that maths)He did it for one reason only, to try and see off the hard Brexit part of his own party. He gambled and lost. Way to go Dave.
98elise said:
techiedave said:
Well.
Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Is that Labours stance this week? Last week it was to negotiate a deal, then have a referendum, but campaign against the deal.Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Personally Corbyn has been a leaver, a remainer, and now neutral?
Is he suffering from dementia?
However, he looks like he'll say anything to get voted in. So much for "a man of principles" and "strong convictions".
amusingduck said:
You're both right IMO. The pressure was growing and Cameron was attempting to nip it in the bud before Leave became the majority position. Nobody realised that the public were far further along that path than they thought, until it was too late
They made the mistake of assuming that because it wasn’t really a priority for people (it wasn’t otherwise UKIP would have won a load of seats at previous elections) that when given the opportunity most people would prefer to stick with the status quo. They were probably not far wrong on that either but a disastrous campaign that failed to extol the virtues of EU membership and instead focussed on doom and gloom predictions of leaving cost them the narrow majority I believe they would have had and the polls suggested at the time of the referendum being announced. People don’t like to be told not to do something, especially by a bunch of slimy politicians. Being asked politely to do something by an equally slimy bunch is apparently more palatable.AstonZagato said:
To be fair, it was the most logical political stance to take. Tories have nailed their colours to the leave-at-all-costs mast. The Lib Dems have said they will revoke Article 50 without consulting the electorate. The space in the middle is a second referendum. He can't say which way he'll go as either position will alienate the other camp.
However, he looks like he'll say anything to get voted in. So much for "a man of principles" and "strong convictions".
His conviction is to say and do the opposite of the government. It’s that simple. I’m not sure how he’d cope in power because he would be the government. Maybe he’ll just carry on contradicting the rest of the party like he does now. Should make cabinet meetings interesting.However, he looks like he'll say anything to get voted in. So much for "a man of principles" and "strong convictions".
98elise said:
techiedave said:
Well.
Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Is that Labours stance this week? Last week it was to negotiate a deal, then have a referendum, but campaign against the deal.Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Personally Corbyn has been a leaver, a remainer, and now neutral?
Is he suffering from dementia?
djc206 said:
amusingduck said:
You're both right IMO. The pressure was growing and Cameron was attempting to nip it in the bud before Leave became the majority position. Nobody realised that the public were far further along that path than they thought, until it was too late
They made the mistake of assuming that because it wasn’t really a priority for people (it wasn’t otherwise UKIP would have won a load of seats at previous elections) that when given the opportunity most people would prefer to stick with the status quo. They were probably not far wrong on that either but a disastrous campaign that failed to extol the virtues of EU membership and instead focussed on doom and gloom predictions of leaving cost them the narrow majority I believe they would have had and the polls suggested at the time of the referendum being announced. People don’t like to be told not to do something, especially by a bunch of slimy politicians. Being asked politely to do something by an equally slimy bunch is apparently more palatable.- Win popularity with his party faithful but never go through with it as they would be prevented from doing so with their coalition partners
- Shoot UKIP's fox to bring the wavering Tory Leave voters back into the fold
- Finish the internecine fighting in the Tory Party once and for all (or at least for his time in office)
- Some leverage for a negotiation with the EU about issues around immigration and benefits (though he could have made benefits more difficult for EU migrants without the EU's help - albeit at a cost of alienating some UK citizens)
- If forced into a referendum, settle the question by winning the referendum for remain (as polls suggested), putting the Brexit debate on hold for a generation
His problems started when it came to #2. He was too successful and won an overall majority. The referendum was front and centre of his manifesto - no way to back out. But probably still feeling smug.
No 3? Well, that went well...
No 4 was a disaster. An awful negotiation with the EU meant he came back empty-handed. The EU looked arrogant and uncaring of the UK electorate's myriad of concerns. Couple that with a migrant crisis engulfing continental Europe and the die was cast.
No 5. A dreadful negative remain campaign by all the political parties (particularly Labour and especially Corbyn's silence on the topic) and he managed to seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
Smollet said:
98elise said:
techiedave said:
Well.
Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Is that Labours stance this week? Last week it was to negotiate a deal, then have a referendum, but campaign against the deal.Seems Jeremy Corbyn is nowhere near as daft as some folk paint him. He looks to be on the point of agreeing to back a second referendum but unlike David Cameron, he will stay neutral.
No doubt he will be decried by some of the fanatics on both sides. Fanatical remainers will scream he is sitting on the fence., Fanatical leavers will accuse him of similar and of being indecisive.
I think its the brightest most pragmatic thing he has come up with.
And that's just how Mr Cameron should have done it.
Personally Corbyn has been a leaver, a remainer, and now neutral?
Is he suffering from dementia?
A Winner Is You said:
He'll be present but not involved during the referendum campaign.
A bit like some peoples sexual experiences then ?I see some chose to speculate this n that n whatever but I really actually for once meant what I posted
I think its pragmatic and is just what David Cameron should have done. Perhaps the reason why people are dubious of his intention is because he seems to have flip flopped over it in the past.
techiedave said:
A Winner Is You said:
He'll be present but not involved during the referendum campaign.
A bit like some peoples sexual experiences then ?I see some chose to speculate this n that n whatever but I really actually for once meant what I posted
I think its pragmatic and is just what David Cameron should have done. Perhaps the reason why people are dubious of his intention is because he seems to have flip flopped over it in the past.
The policy is not pragmatic it is suicidal - there is no way he will pick up any Leave votes and a good number of Remain votes will feck off to the Lib Dem’s.
However, I agree that it is a brilliant approach for Labour to take.
Only a Labour government will give people the choice of a credible leave offer and remain.
We'll put it to the people, giving them a final say, in a public vote.
And as a Labour Prime Minister, I'll implement their decision.
Labour will put power into the hands of the people.
Did someone mention the word strike ?
We must take urgent action to tackle the climate emergency.
I've been inspired by the young people who are leading the way with the #ClimateStrike and I'll be joining them this Friday in London.
Find your nearest strike here:
We'll put it to the people, giving them a final say, in a public vote.
And as a Labour Prime Minister, I'll implement their decision.
Labour will put power into the hands of the people.
Did someone mention the word strike ?
We must take urgent action to tackle the climate emergency.
I've been inspired by the young people who are leading the way with the #ClimateStrike and I'll be joining them this Friday in London.
Find your nearest strike here:
They really had no other choice. The LibDems have hard remain sewn up, I don't agree with them but thier position is crystal clear.
The tories are clearly out, one way or another.
Labour have failed to back either horse, backing remain and they alienate thier heartlands, backing leave and the middle class/middle england are upset.
We all know anyone offering a 2nd referendum is really backing remain and hoping the result goes the right way this time but you might fool a few people.
I think we will see gains for the Libs, Tories and BP all at the expense of Labour. Probably no overall majority.
The tories are clearly out, one way or another.
Labour have failed to back either horse, backing remain and they alienate thier heartlands, backing leave and the middle class/middle england are upset.
We all know anyone offering a 2nd referendum is really backing remain and hoping the result goes the right way this time but you might fool a few people.
I think we will see gains for the Libs, Tories and BP all at the expense of Labour. Probably no overall majority.
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