Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Hours at work and productivity do not correlate. Just look at working cultures in Korea for example compared to Germany.
I believe in the UK we are expected to work too many hours and too many days.
I sincerely believe that when you work longer than 8 hours in a day your efficiency decreases significantly. Errors arise and costs increase. There is not enough emphasis in the UK on getting the job done right first time and rewarding employees for this.
With one of my previous employers is was far more beneficial for me if someone f
ked up. I'd be flown anywhere in the world to resolve issues and get a shed load of overtime money for it. Then there would be the next fk up, and next, and next. We were actively incentivized to be inefficient because of the overtime culture.
"I know the salary isn't great but we pay good overtime."
Overtime culture is bad for productivity. Minimum hours are bad for productivity. A complete disconnection between money earned and goals achieved is bad for productivity.
I believe in the UK we are expected to work too many hours and too many days.
I sincerely believe that when you work longer than 8 hours in a day your efficiency decreases significantly. Errors arise and costs increase. There is not enough emphasis in the UK on getting the job done right first time and rewarding employees for this.
With one of my previous employers is was far more beneficial for me if someone f
ked up. I'd be flown anywhere in the world to resolve issues and get a shed load of overtime money for it. Then there would be the next fk up, and next, and next. We were actively incentivized to be inefficient because of the overtime culture. "I know the salary isn't great but we pay good overtime."
Overtime culture is bad for productivity. Minimum hours are bad for productivity. A complete disconnection between money earned and goals achieved is bad for productivity.
The reward for doing it right first time is your salary. The reward for doing it right first time and more effectively than your colleagues is promotion. The 'reward' for messing up is a P45. A bonus is a reward for performance far above any expectations not merely for showing up every day. We expect too many 'pats on the back' and rail against being disciplined for poor performance and/or behaviour.
motco said:
The reward for doing it right first time is your salary. The reward for doing it right first time and more effectively than your colleagues is promotion. The 'reward' for messing up is a P45. A bonus is a reward for performance far above any expectations not merely for showing up every day. We expect too many 'pats on the back' and rail against being disciplined for poor performance and/or behaviour.
I agree. Outside those parameters the solution to working beneficially is a management with the skills to operate effectively and to the mutual benefit of employee and employer. John145:
[Quote] : I sincerely believe that when you work longer than 8 hours in a day your efficiency decreases significantly. Errors arise and costs increase. There is not enough emphasis in the UK on getting the job done right first time and rewarding employees for this. [Quote]
Depends on the job. I know many people who enjoy their jobs and are fulfilled at them. If their performance decreases, and again subject to the job they do, a good line manager will identify and rectify with the objective of ensuring agreed norms are maintained and work input is appreciated. On topic: As in Corbyn's empire, too many key people are there because of political patronage rather than ability to achieve aims.
John145 said:
I sincerely believe that when you work longer than 8 hours in a day your efficiency decreases significantly. Errors arise and costs increase.
I think it varies depending on what the job is.For computer programming I think if people aren't in the right headspace, even if they've barely started the day they should just go and do something else for a bit. For burger flipping, it's not so much of an issue.
John145 said:
Hours at work and productivity do not correlate. Just look at working cultures in Korea for example compared to Germany.
I believe in the UK we are expected to work too many hours and too many days.
I sincerely believe that when you work longer than 8 hours in a day your efficiency decreases significantly. Errors arise and costs increase. There is not enough emphasis in the UK on getting the job done right first time and rewarding employees for this.
With one of my previous employers is was far more beneficial for me if someone fked up. I'd be flown anywhere in the world to resolve issues and get a shed load of overtime money for it. Then there would be the next fk up, and next, and next. We were actively incentivized to be inefficient because of the overtime culture.
"I know the salary isn't great but we pay good overtime."
Overtime culture is bad for productivity. Minimum hours are bad for productivity. A complete disconnection between money earned and goals achieved is bad for productivity.
Crazy lefty, death camp for you.I believe in the UK we are expected to work too many hours and too many days.
I sincerely believe that when you work longer than 8 hours in a day your efficiency decreases significantly. Errors arise and costs increase. There is not enough emphasis in the UK on getting the job done right first time and rewarding employees for this.
With one of my previous employers is was far more beneficial for me if someone f
ked up. I'd be flown anywhere in the world to resolve issues and get a shed load of overtime money for it. Then there would be the next fk up, and next, and next. We were actively incentivized to be inefficient because of the overtime culture. "I know the salary isn't great but we pay good overtime."
Overtime culture is bad for productivity. Minimum hours are bad for productivity. A complete disconnection between money earned and goals achieved is bad for productivity.
motco said:
The reward for doing it right first time is your salary. The reward for doing it right first time and more effectively than your colleagues is promotion. The 'reward' for messing up is a P45. A bonus is a reward for performance far above any expectations not merely for showing up every day. We expect too many 'pats on the back' and rail against being disciplined for poor performance and/or behaviour.
In my experience this does not stack up. At my interview for my previous job it was specifically stated the salary is no good but the OT is available and at a good rate - therefore incentive is to be slow.Too many pats on the back? I agree about there being no discipline for poor performance but this is not in contradiction to too many pats on the back. At my current employer (in Germany) your individual appraisal must average out across your team such that no department is seen as better than any other. Therefore you could be a complete wizard but it have no practical influence on your promotion opportunities.
If there was a direct link between take home and performance then you would see people work harder. Base salaries are generally quite crap in the UK and is it no real surprise to me that people are not motivated to push on a daily basis. This is especially true in the low/unskilled work which is flooded with labour.
I would much rather a higher salary, no overtime payment and a bonus structure which was actually accessible for individual employees rather than something blanket like "number of reworks required on manufacturing line". The link between my targets that influence my take home are so tenuous that they have no practical influence on my performance. It was merely a pleasant surprise that somehow it did get paid or an annoyance when it didn't. Nothing in my role would effect the possibility of getting it.
Also with older companies all the jobs are generally full, especially at small old companies. Therefore you can be great but the next level will not be available until death/retirement. This is also why in my industry its typical that people move from company to company. This is not actually all that beneficial for the individual as moving house every 3-5 years means you get no roots in a place or stable family home.
But I suppose I should just stay stum as I have a good job and should be grateful for the very generous opportunity to give 50% of my waking life.
motco said:
A bonus is a reward for performance far above any expectations not merely for showing up every day.
I always thought a bonus was a reward for working at a company that didn't do salary increases at market rate, but didn't want to lose it's staff and certainly didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be.768 said:
motco said:
A bonus is a reward for performance far above any expectations not merely for showing up every day.
I always thought a bonus was a reward for working at a company that didn't do salary increases at market rate, but didn't want to lose it's staff and certainly didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be.p.s. what do you mean by this? "...didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be"
For anyone interested in the level of internal debate in the Labour Party these days - and of course a lovely smearing of hypocrisy that the left always suffer from
https://labourlist.org/2018/10/we-demand-better-wo...
RichB said:
Seriously? A bonus is a payment for you achieving something against a set of previously stated criteria, e.g. personal performance or company performance or a combination of both. I can't see how it could be seen as a 'reward' for just being at a company with low salaries.
p.s. what do you mean by this? "...didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be"
It's quite obvious isn't it? Also it is a common tactic.p.s. what do you mean by this? "...didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be"
What is your salary?
X.. but I get Y bonus!
Oh we're only interested in the base salary for our offer calculation.
Salaries should be based on the job requirements and not your previous job's salary...
John145 said:
RichB said:
Seriously? A bonus is a payment for you achieving something against a set of previously stated criteria, e.g. personal performance or company performance or a combination of both. I can't see how it could be seen as a 'reward' for just being at a company with low salaries.
p.s. what do you mean by this? "...didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be"
It's quite obvious isn't it? p.s. what do you mean by this? "...didn't want them being able to tell their next employer their salary was as high as it should be"
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