Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)

[SpeckledJim]

Burwood said:

Tony427 said:

It's now official.

Momentum run the Labour party as the Momentum leader has tweeted that any Labour MP who votes for the deal will be replaced at the next election with a Socialist Labour candidate.

That will warm the cockles of Labour MP's hearts.

The vote will be close. 320 required. So far they have 302 confirmed including 9 Labour. 36 unknowns. Any Labour MP not intending to stand again will probably vote for it.

Revealing that the Labour MPs with the freedom to vote with their conscience are voting for the deal.

The rest are voting with the Labour Party.

[MKnight702]

silverthorn2151 said:

George Smiley said:

No sooner than the deals announced JC is pledging to vote against it. Why? Just because you are in opposition doesn’t mean you have to oppose everything.

It's his whole existence though. Object, protest, rebel. Student politics. Never a positive thing uttered. Pathetic in someone occupying his position.

Surely you are not suggesting that Saint Corbyn can't instantaneously read the whole agreement, asses the impact and make a reasoned judgement of its merits rather than just have a press release rejecting the deal whatever it says standing ready for instantaneous broadcast the second Boris announces that he has a deal? I wonder if there is a date stamp on release that someone could find.

[motco]

Every Labour defection to the side that votes for the deal is a benefit twice over: one lost from the naysayers and one gained by the proponents.

[Tony427]

Well it now appears that there could be 13 Labour MP;s voting for the deal.

Bearing in mind the old adage of "safety in numbers" how many additional Labour MPs will now think that they can stick their head above the parapet, tell Corbyn to do one and vote as their constituents desire.

And then what if other non Corbynites see this as a fantastic opportunity to dispose of Steptoe as mass defections would probably cause him to lose whatever shreds of credibility as party leader he stilll has hanging off him.

In other words will there ever be a better opportunity for Labour MP's sick of Corbyn, sick of Momentum and terrified of their constituents retribution at the ballot box to get rid of the magic grandad?

Cheers,

Tony

[italianjob1275]

Tony427 said:

Well it now appears that there could be 13 Labour MP;s voting for the deal.

Bearing in mind the old adage of "safety in numbers" how many additional Labour MPs will now think that they can stick their head above the parapet, tell Corbyn to do one and vote as their constituents desire.

And then what if other non Corbynites see this as a fantastic opportunity to dispose of Steptoe as mass defections would probably cause him to lose whatever shreds of credibility as party leader he stilll has hanging off him.

In other words will there ever be a better opportunity for Labour MP's sick of Corbyn, sick of Momentum and terrified of their constituents retribution at the ballot box to get rid of the magic grandad?

Cheers,

Tony

Wouldn’t this give Momentum the chance to kick out some more blairite scum and get some true believers in place?

[SpeckledJim]

italianjob1275 said:

Tony427 said:

Well it now appears that there could be 13 Labour MP;s voting for the deal.

Bearing in mind the old adage of "safety in numbers" how many additional Labour MPs will now think that they can stick their head above the parapet, tell Corbyn to do one and vote as their constituents desire.

And then what if other non Corbynites see this as a fantastic opportunity to dispose of Steptoe as mass defections would probably cause him to lose whatever shreds of credibility as party leader he stilll has hanging off him.

In other words will there ever be a better opportunity for Labour MP's sick of Corbyn, sick of Momentum and terrified of their constituents retribution at the ballot box to get rid of the magic grandad?

Cheers,

Tony

Wouldn’t this give Momentum the chance to kick out some more blairite scum and get some true believers in place?

Potentially. But it also gives MPs in trouble in their constituencies the chance to show they are in tune with their voters, and keeping their promises to respect the result.

Interesting dynamic inside the PLP today/tomorrow.

If every MP who voted against Corbyn’s leadership a few years ago voted for the deal tomorrow they could potentially win back the party. At least kick off a proper fight for it, instead of going quietly into that dark night.

[Tony427]

italianjob1275 said:

Wouldn’t this give Momentum the chance to kick out some more blairite scum and get some true believers in place?

With Corbyn gone and 40 to 50 MPs' in revolt I think the unions would step in to create some order and Momentums wings would be clipped. There will only be 6 to 8 week before the election so incumbents, who are once again aligned with their core voters, would be in the driving seat.

To be honest, what have a lot of them got to lose?

[RichB]

Tony427 said:

italianjob1275 said:

Wouldn’t this give Momentum the chance to kick out some more blairite scum and get some true believers in place?

With Corbyn gone and 40 to 50 MPs' in revolt I think the unions would step in to create some order and Momentums wings would be clipped. There will only be 6 to 8 week before the election so incumbents, who are once again aligned with their core voters, would be in the driving seat. To be honest, what have a lot of them got to lose?

Surely the unions are the driving force behind Momentum?

[vaud]

RichB said:

urely the unions are the driving force behind Momentum?

Some local branches have been thoroughly infiltrated/taken over by Momentum/anarchists.

At a national level, they don't like it - the bigger unions don't seek chaos/anarchy, they want to protect their members and balance against big business exploitation - which is good (though I am more of a fan of workers councils).

There are some very good, reasonable unions. I think the big ones fear the power of Momentum the risk is Momentum become far more powerful than the Union and the power base changes?

[ORD]

The unions see Labour being hollowed out and used as a Trojan horse for extemists with half-baked, infantile politics. Disastrous stuff for the economy.

The Unions see all that and think ‘That’s our job!’

[Zirconia]

Unions still have block votes I think? How many have removed them selves from that option?

Unions have a strange way of working, you get the group that know the rules inside out and how to play it. Getting someone they don't like on a committee just does not seem to happen. Local level there will be a different feel to the national level. And of course at a meeting everyone is on the same hymn sheet

[dazwalsh]

Ome thing I have heard JC bang on about is how the USA are going to steal the NHS from us if we leave and get a US trade deal.

Is he just chatting shyte or where is he getting the idea for this? I'm inclined to go with the former but just on the off chance there is something which would suggest the claim buried In the deal. What is he on about?

[Burwood]

dazwalsh said:

Ome thing I have heard JC bang on about is how the USA are going to steal the NHS from us if we leave and get a US trade deal.

Is he just chatting shyte or where is he getting the idea for this? I'm inclined to go with the former but just on the off chance there is something which would suggest the claim buried In the deal. What is he on about?

He's making stuff up, as usual. I am sure there is talk of a US Trade Deal. That's it. There may well be certain parts of the NHS which could benefit from privatisation. Naturally he is against any such think, even if it was cheaper and more efficient.

[Not-The-Messiah]

Burwood said:

dazwalsh said:

Ome thing I have heard JC bang on about is how the USA are going to steal the NHS from us if we leave and get a US trade deal.

Is he just chatting shyte or where is he getting the idea for this? I'm inclined to go with the former but just on the off chance there is something which would suggest the claim buried In the deal. What is he on about?

He's making stuff up, as usual. I am sure there is talk of a US Trade Deal. That's it. There may well be certain parts of the NHS which could benefit from privatisation. Naturally he is against any such think, even if it was cheaper and more efficient.

All these arguments he keeps making of the NHS being stolen a race to the bottom on workers rights so they think the EU should be in control of these things.

Labour are basically saying they either don't want the job as politicians to choose and decide these laws and they don't trust the UK population to choose the correct people to makes these decisions for them. They want to take the choose away from the people and even themselves and give it to a organisation we will have very little if any say in.

If there is a government that is democratically elected who choose to deregulate things then that's how democracy works. If the public end up not liking the changes then labour could stand on a platform of changing these regulations.

[otolith]

dazwalsh said:

Ome thing I have heard JC bang on about is how the USA are going to steal the NHS from us if we leave and get a US trade deal.

Is he just chatting shyte or where is he getting the idea for this? I'm inclined to go with the former but just on the off chance there is something which would suggest the claim buried In the deal. What is he on about?

He's on about the idea that if we want a deal to sell our stuff in the US, they will want to be able to sell us stuff. One sector very interested in selling their stuff here is the US medical industry. He's claiming that the Tories want to have US medical companies providing NHS care (and also flogging the idea that they want to get rid of free treatment at the point of use and adopt the US system). There isn't anything to stop the Tories doing this within the EU if they'd really wanted to, of course, and Labour has been making those accusations since well before Brexit.

[psi310398]

otolith said:

He's on about the idea that if we want a deal to sell our stuff in the US, they will want to be able to sell us stuff. One sector very interested in selling their stuff here is the US medical industry. He's claiming that the Tories want to have US medical companies providing NHS care (and also flogging the idea that they want to get rid of free treatment at the point of use and adopt the US system). There isn't anything to stop the Tories doing this within the EU if they'd really wanted to, of course, and Labour has been making those accusations since well before Brexit.

And it's a little bit rich coming from the party that lumbered us with all those spiffing PFI hospitals...for which Labour has yet to apologise

[Halb]

otolith said:

He's on about the idea that if we want a deal to sell our stuff in the US, they will want to be able to sell us stuff. One sector very interested in selling their stuff here is the US medical industry. He's claiming that the Tories want to have US medical companies providing NHS care (and also flogging the idea that they want to get rid of free treatment at the point of use and adopt the US system). There isn't anything to stop the Tories doing this within the EU if they'd really wanted to, of course, and Labour has been making those accusations since well before Brexit.

Trying to get AMerican firms into the NHS really would be the death knell for the Tories, they'd be barking to try and do that.

[otolith]

psi310398 said:

otolith said:

He's on about the idea that if we want a deal to sell our stuff in the US, they will want to be able to sell us stuff. One sector very interested in selling their stuff here is the US medical industry. He's claiming that the Tories want to have US medical companies providing NHS care (and also flogging the idea that they want to get rid of free treatment at the point of use and adopt the US system). There isn't anything to stop the Tories doing this within the EU if they'd really wanted to, of course, and Labour has been making those accusations since well before Brexit.

And it's a little bit rich coming from the party that lumbered us with all those spiffing PFI hospitals...for which Labour has yet to apologise

Now then, that wasn't Labour, that was Red Tory Blairite Scum, comrade.

[psi310398]

otolith said:

Now then, that wasn't Labour, that was Red Tory Blairite Scum, comrade.

Well, it was Broon's and Balls' pet project as much as Blair's.

[SpeckledJim]

Halb said:

otolith said:

He's on about the idea that if we want a deal to sell our stuff in the US, they will want to be able to sell us stuff. One sector very interested in selling their stuff here is the US medical industry. He's claiming that the Tories want to have US medical companies providing NHS care (and also flogging the idea that they want to get rid of free treatment at the point of use and adopt the US system). There isn't anything to stop the Tories doing this within the EU if they'd really wanted to, of course, and Labour has been making those accusations since well before Brexit.

Trying to get AMerican firms into the NHS really would be the death knell for the Tories, they'd be barking to try and do that.

Yet, given NHS procurement is very good at always searching out and delivering best value, the expensive American firms looking to rip off the NHS obviously wouldn't stand a chance, would they!?

On the other hand, if the offer from the American firms is actually a good one, then we can trust NHS procurement, with their unerring nose for always delivering best value, to welcome them and thus improve the NHS!

Win Win! Yay!