Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
El stovey said:
Why are momentum still backing Corbyn? He’s done so much damage to the party’s election chances.
There must come a point when they realise they’re not going to get elected with this hapless idiot in charge.
I’m not sure Momentum are (yet) interested in winning the election. They want to conquer the party first, and then think about power later.There must come a point when they realise they’re not going to get elected with this hapless idiot in charge.
Still plenty of Blairites and suspected Blairites to depose. First things first.
They want enough MPs so they have a voice in parliament and can claim to speak for the working man but not enough where there’s a danger of winning an election.
You just have to look what’s happening locally. Instead of showing a united front to the electorate and displaying a clear message, they’re too busy trying to oust moderates and get they’re own man elected with varying results. Corbyn is the only chance of them achieving their goal as as soon as a moderate gets in they’ll purge Momentum goons from power within the party and push them back to the fringes where they belong.
richie99 said:
chemistry said:
S1KRR said:
Well if McDonalds are FORCED (as they surely would be by Corbyn!) to pay £15 to their staff I predict faster automation
Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free s
t anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country! 
^This is exactly right.Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free s
t anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country! You simply pressed the image of the soft drinks can you wanted on the touch screen display and a robot arm reached into a rack, picked and then placed the can in front of you.
Now they were only doing this to show off their robots and software but give it time...
Tango13 said:
A few years back I was at the NEC for the machine tool show, free drinks and nibbles are the norm but one of the exhibitors went one step further...
You simply pressed the image of the soft drinks can you wanted on the touch screen display and a robot arm reached into a rack, picked and then placed the can in front of you.
Now they were only doing this to show off their robots and software but give it time...
When the technology improves like how the tocuh screen really do work at macdonalds now then this is the norm, it will happen much faster than AI and the goverment hurting business with increased costs and negative tax regimes will only hasten this.You simply pressed the image of the soft drinks can you wanted on the touch screen display and a robot arm reached into a rack, picked and then placed the can in front of you.
Now they were only doing this to show off their robots and software but give it time...
S1KRR said:
Well if McDonalds are FORCED (as they surely would be by Corbyn!) to pay £15 to their staff I predict faster automation
Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free st anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country!
They're got restaurants in Japan with no staff, everything is from vending machines, including hot food. Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free s
t anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country! When they can already do pizza in a vending machine it's really not hard to see a business with the resources of McDonald's taking it to the next level.
Gecko1978 said:
When your next Amazon order comes in a electric self driving van from a fully automated ware house you know what will be in the box....a shotgun to defend your home from the baying mob who can't find work any more.
People have been saying this for over 100 years, its utter bks. When advancements in technology make job roles redundant, new jobs not envisioned at the time replace them.
If you don't adapt to change, you lose out, if you do adapt, you dont, society moves on and presents new opportunity, often with better working conditions.
jsf said:
Gecko1978 said:
When your next Amazon order comes in a electric self driving van from a fully automated ware house you know what will be in the box....a shotgun to defend your home from the baying mob who can't find work any more.
People have been saying this for over 100 years, its utter bks. When advancements in technology make job roles redundant, new jobs not envisioned at the time replace them.
If you don't adapt to change, you lose out, if you do adapt, you dont, society moves on and presents new opportunity, often with better working conditions.
my example - well yes you will need someone to service the vans an robots, will that be a person or a machine though, and also we are not replacing like with like. You could argue Factories have been replaced by the call center but how long before the call center is now just a computer and you can;t tell you are speaking to a machine. If you dropped your car at a garage an a robot serviced it would you care?
McDonalds etc do you care you are using the key pad I actually prefer it its faster. but one person can maintiain 12 machines where as before you had 12 tills etc
You've picked some really poor examples there.
Technology advancements just change the nature of work.
It may be that in the future there will be a discussion to be had on how you support those who can no longer adapt to the roles available, but human nature drives the vast majority of people to adapt and prosper.
Technology advancements just change the nature of work.
It may be that in the future there will be a discussion to be had on how you support those who can no longer adapt to the roles available, but human nature drives the vast majority of people to adapt and prosper.
jsf said:
You've picked some really poor examples there.
Technology advancements just change the nature of work.
It may be that in the future there will be a discussion to be had on how you support those who can no longer adapt to the roles available, but human nature drives the vast majority of people to adapt and prosper.
Nah, just look at the long lines of unemployed telephone operators and typists. Technology advancements just change the nature of work.
It may be that in the future there will be a discussion to be had on how you support those who can no longer adapt to the roles available, but human nature drives the vast majority of people to adapt and prosper.
jsf said:
You've picked some really poor examples there.
Technology advancements just change the nature of work.
It may be that in the future there will be a discussion to be had on how you support those who can no longer adapt to the roles available, but human nature drives the vast majority of people to adapt and prosper.
Ok different tack to make clear what I am saying, ITs not a natural evolution but a 2 stage process. Pushing the wage costs up for McDonalds staff to £15 an hour incentive's the employers to use Technology to reduce that cost. Those skills might be transferable to another retail outlet but then all firms move to a automation model and that job just no longer exists.Technology advancements just change the nature of work.
It may be that in the future there will be a discussion to be had on how you support those who can no longer adapt to the roles available, but human nature drives the vast majority of people to adapt and prosper.
Usually this takes time, factory workers now operating robots etc, but now we are as I say replacing the operator on a scale not seen before. An while industrial revolution replaced manual jobs it also opened up larger markets and drove costs down so production went up. I would argue we are already meting Burger demand in the UK speeding up production wont change that.
I see a world 10 years from now where most offices are 30% smaller than they are todya due to remote working and all the support roles in thoes areas falling away. I see all goods delivered by driverless tech (maybe 20 years), but then I see AI doing the sort of job I do.
We ar enot talking about off shoring we are talking about off lining things to such an extent only high tech jobs are needed. An we accelerate this if we raises prices beyond what an economy will bare.
Gecko1978 said:
Ok different tack to make clear what I am saying, ITs not a natural evolution but a 2 stage process. Pushing the wage costs up for McDonalds staff to £15 an hour incentive's the employers to use Technology to reduce that cost. Those skills might be transferable to another retail outlet but then all firms move to a automation model and that job just no longer exists.
Usually this takes time, factory workers now operating robots etc, but now we are as I say replacing the operator on a scale not seen before. An while industrial revolution replaced manual jobs it also opened up larger markets and drove costs down so production went up. I would argue we are already meting Burger demand in the UK speeding up production wont change that.
I see a world 10 years from now where most offices are 30% smaller than they are todya due to remote working and all the support roles in thoes areas falling away. I see all goods delivered by driverless tech (maybe 20 years), but then I see AI doing the sort of job I do.
We ar enot talking about off shoring we are talking about off lining things to such an extent only high tech jobs are needed. An we accelerate this if we raises prices beyond what an economy will bare.
I gave up working in IT 15 years ago, even back then i could do my role from home, connecting to anywhere in the world to highly complex systems. Usually this takes time, factory workers now operating robots etc, but now we are as I say replacing the operator on a scale not seen before. An while industrial revolution replaced manual jobs it also opened up larger markets and drove costs down so production went up. I would argue we are already meting Burger demand in the UK speeding up production wont change that.
I see a world 10 years from now where most offices are 30% smaller than they are todya due to remote working and all the support roles in thoes areas falling away. I see all goods delivered by driverless tech (maybe 20 years), but then I see AI doing the sort of job I do.
We ar enot talking about off shoring we are talking about off lining things to such an extent only high tech jobs are needed. An we accelerate this if we raises prices beyond what an economy will bare.
People work best when together physically, remote working hasn't taken off to the extent predicted because of this.
jsf said:
People have been saying this for over 100 years, its utter bks.
When advancements in technology make job roles redundant, new jobs not envisioned at the time replace them.
If you don't adapt to change, you lose out, if you do adapt, you dont, society moves on and presents new opportunity, often with better working conditions.
While that is true it is not necessarily new jobs for the SAME people.ks. When advancements in technology make job roles redundant, new jobs not envisioned at the time replace them.
If you don't adapt to change, you lose out, if you do adapt, you dont, society moves on and presents new opportunity, often with better working conditions.
We have been talking about Mcdonald's but automation is coming like an onrushing train toward many white collar jobs that are lower middle class. Will a legal services clerk or a company bookkeeper/accountant in their late 40s early 50s be retraining in one of the new sectors or will they, more likely, be looking for minimum wage work and/or working in the gig economy when the time comes.
What is oft forgotten about the Luddite movement is that while this may have been a revolt against the start of an industrial revolution that eventually led to far greater prosperity for the country. The actual workers who were part of that movement did see a drop in their pay and living standards so it wasn't them who benefited.
Edited by JagLover on Sunday 27th October 17:11
jsf said:
People work best when together physically, remote working hasn't taken off to the extent predicted because of this.
I don't. 
Personally, I think it's huge that over 1.5 million people in the UK now work remotely, given shelf stackers, security guards, teachers, hospital staff etc undoubtedly work best when colocated.
If you need people with specialist skills who don't have to be in a certain location though, it doesn't really matter how well they work together physically when they have to take their kids to school hundreds of thousands of miles apart.
It's always going to be a mixed picture.
technodup said:
S1KRR said:
Well if McDonalds are FORCED (as they surely would be by Corbyn!) to pay £15 to their staff I predict faster automation
Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free st anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country!
They're got restaurants in Japan with no staff, everything is from vending machines, including hot food. Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free s
t anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country! When they can already do pizza in a vending machine it's really not hard to see a business with the resources of McDonald's taking it to the next level.
Bet there isn’t a button on the machine for my request... also, I bet they’re not that bothered...
I can't even be bothered to keep reading the replies on this page. The issues aren't even worth discussing, because anyone with half a brain can work out it doesn't work like that.
Minimum wage isn't going to jump to £15. If it does, expect all wages to jump and all prices to increase overnight, and we're back at square one. It's not even worth wasting time discussing.
And all you Luddites need a slap. I'll tell you what will happen if/when you get replaced by a machine... You'll find a new job. How? The same way you found the one you just had. Oh but your 'skills'? You can retrain for new skills in a field that has demand. If you actually had any skills, you wouldn't have been easily replaced by a machine. Things move on. Move on with it.
What happens when all the menial jobs get taken over by machines? You'll all be long dead by then so I wouldn't worry about it.
Minimum wage isn't going to jump to £15. If it does, expect all wages to jump and all prices to increase overnight, and we're back at square one. It's not even worth wasting time discussing.
And all you Luddites need a slap. I'll tell you what will happen if/when you get replaced by a machine... You'll find a new job. How? The same way you found the one you just had. Oh but your 'skills'? You can retrain for new skills in a field that has demand. If you actually had any skills, you wouldn't have been easily replaced by a machine. Things move on. Move on with it.
What happens when all the menial jobs get taken over by machines? You'll all be long dead by then so I wouldn't worry about it.
768 said:
jsf said:
People work best when together physically, remote working hasn't taken off to the extent predicted because of this.
I don't. Personally, I think it's huge that over 1.5 million people in the UK now work remotely, given shelf stackers, security guards, teachers, hospital staff etc undoubtedly work best when colocated.
If you need people with specialist skills who don't have to be in a certain location though, it doesn't really matter how well they work together physically when they have to take their kids to school hundreds of thousands of miles apart.
It's always going to be a mixed picture.
BeastieBoy73 said:
technodup said:
S1KRR said:
Well if McDonalds are FORCED (as they surely would be by Corbyn!) to pay £15 to their staff I predict faster automation
Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free st anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country!
They're got restaurants in Japan with no staff, everything is from vending machines, including hot food. Will mean less staff.
But hey, Labour will continue to give you loads of free s
t anyway. Those on £13/hour can pay for it. fk the country! When they can already do pizza in a vending machine it's really not hard to see a business with the resources of McDonald's taking it to the next level.
Bet there isn’t a button on the machine for my request... also, I bet they’re not that bothered...
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