Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)

[SpeckledJim]

Dixy said:

He has again promised to scrap tuition fees, what does he propose to do with the generation who have enormous student loans.

Whilst I don't agree with the policy, I don't think removing fees in the future (whether tuition, or parking, or whatever) means you have to give back any fees paid in the past.


We won't get rebates on tax paid in 2010 when a change is made to tax rates in 2020.

[gazza285]

Bussolini said:

gazza285 said:

Bussolini said:

If the Tories hadn't sold them all off at below market value, we wouldn't have to build so many new ones.

Housing supply is a real problem in this country. Increasing housing supply to get those at the bottom out of the hands of predatory private landlords is a good thing.

If the last Labour government hadn’t stopped building them, the country wouldn’t be short of social housing now.

Classic blame Labour for everything. Tories have been in power for ten years. Tories introduced right to buy.

I don't recall exonerating the Conservative Party in my reply, perhaps you can show me where I did?

[pingu393]

djc206 said:

Gecko1978 said:

djc206 said:

Won’t it be the 5%ers in the work camps building them?

the top 5% are I think 80k plus.....that's a lot of professionals locked up for re education lol. Thoes money trees won't plant themself

We’re not the fittest or most practical segment of society either. Those are going to be some shoddy council houses, sorry Jeremy.

Have you not seen the "Hitler Blocks" in the former British barracks in Germany? Probably the most solidly built buildings that I have ever seen.

Some say the pyramids were built with slave labour. If true, Corbyn's legacy could last for a thousand years.

[Burwood]

pingu393 said:

djc206 said:

Gecko1978 said:

djc206 said:

Won’t it be the 5%ers in the work camps building them?

the top 5% are I think 80k plus.....that's a lot of professionals locked up for re education lol. Thoes money trees won't plant themself

We’re not the fittest or most practical segment of society either. Those are going to be some shoddy council houses, sorry Jeremy.

Have you not seen the "Hitler Blocks" in the former British barracks in Germany? Probably the most solidly built buildings that I have ever seen.

Some say the pyramids were built with slave labour. If true, Corbyn's legacy could last for a thousand years.

Not to derail but slaves were never employed in Pyramid building. All builders were paid workers. It's a myth which has been proven false

[pingu393]

Burwood said:

pingu393 said:

djc206 said:

Gecko1978 said:

djc206 said:

Won’t it be the 5%ers in the work camps building them?

the top 5% are I think 80k plus.....that's a lot of professionals locked up for re education lol. Thoes money trees won't plant themself

We’re not the fittest or most practical segment of society either. Those are going to be some shoddy council houses, sorry Jeremy.

Have you not seen the "Hitler Blocks" in the former British barracks in Germany? Probably the most solidly built buildings that I have ever seen.

Some say the pyramids were built with slave labour. If true, Corbyn's legacy could last for a thousand years.

Not to derail but slaves were never employed in Pyramid building. All builders were paid workers. It's a myth which has been proven false

"Some say" .

[Dixy]

SpeckledJim said:

Whilst I don't agree with the policy, I don't think removing fees in the future (whether tuition, or parking, or whatever) means you have to give back any fees paid in the past.


We won't get rebates on tax paid in 2010 when a change is made to tax rates in 2020.

So you have a generation who paid for their own and for the next generation as well. Remember it was his party that introduced the fees in the first place.

[SpeckledJim]

Dixy said:

SpeckledJim said:

Whilst I don't agree with the policy, I don't think removing fees in the future (whether tuition, or parking, or whatever) means you have to give back any fees paid in the past.


We won't get rebates on tax paid in 2010 when a change is made to tax rates in 2020.

So you have a generation who paid for their own and for the next generation as well. Remember it was his party that introduced the fees in the first place.

Yup. Thems the breaks. Nothing is forever.

Some generations have to go to war, so we've not had it so bad, really.

(still not a fan of the policy, just saying what I'm seeing)

[Blackpuddin]

Has anybody mooted the idea yet of a shock pre-election resignation by Corbyn, based on him and his acolytes finally acknowledging that he is the biggest obstacle to a Labour victory? It's not hard to imagine a big uplift in Labour support with someone like Starmer taking over.
Not sure of the ramifications or whether there would be time to implement it, just wondering if it might be something they've thought about.

[rdjohn]

If you like a good bedtime fairytail then McDonald’s grey book makes even better reading than the Labour manifesto.

But then if I was 23, with a load of uni-debts, poor pay and no chance of getting on the housing ladder, then I would vote for it.

It would be rude not to - all my mates are in the same position.

[SpeckledJim]

Blackpuddin said:

Has anybody mooted the idea yet of a shock pre-election resignation by Corbyn, based on him and his acolytes finally acknowledging that he is the biggest obstacle to a Labour victory? It's not hard to imagine a big uplift in Labour support with someone like Starmer taking over.
Not sure of the ramifications or whether there would be time to implement it, just wondering if it might be something they've thought about.

I think if that was going to happen, the time for it to happen was a month ago.

I now think a heavy defeat is part of Momentum's plan, as it will clear out a lot of their problem MPs and make space for more true believers in the constituency associations.

[vaud]

Blackpuddin said:

Has anybody mooted the idea yet of a shock pre-election resignation by Corbyn, based on him and his acolytes finally acknowledging that he is the biggest obstacle to a Labour victory? It's not hard to imagine a big uplift in Labour support with someone like Starmer taking over.
Not sure of the ramifications or whether there would be time to implement it, just wondering if it might be something they've thought about.

Is there time for them to follow their election process?

[Dr Jekyll]

Blackpuddin said:

Has anybody mooted the idea yet of a shock pre-election resignation by Corbyn, based on him and his acolytes finally acknowledging that he is the biggest obstacle to a Labour victory? It's not hard to imagine a big uplift in Labour support with someone like Starmer taking over.
Not sure of the ramifications or whether there would be time to implement it, just wondering if it might be something they've thought about.

I'm sure they've thought about it.

I remember years ago Labour got control of the GLC under a popular leader regarded as a sensible moderate. Within a couple of days of the election he was replaced by a largely unknown leftie called Ken Livingstone.

[CambsBill]

vaud said:

Blackpuddin said:

Has anybody mooted the idea yet of a shock pre-election resignation by Corbyn, based on him and his acolytes finally acknowledging that he is the biggest obstacle to a Labour victory? It's not hard to imagine a big uplift in Labour support with someone like Starmer taking over.
Not sure of the ramifications or whether there would be time to implement it, just wondering if it might be something they've thought about.

Is there time for them to follow their election process?

I imagine if he stepped down then the deputy leader would take his place. . .

Ah

Oops

[motco]

gazza285 said:

Bussolini said:

If the Tories hadn't sold them all off at below market value, we wouldn't have to build so many new ones.

Housing supply is a real problem in this country. Increasing housing supply to get those at the bottom out of the hands of predatory private landlords is a good thing.

If the last Labour government hadn’t stopped building them, the country wouldn’t be short of social housing now.

Selling houses doesn't destroy them - they still exist and are lived in. Many are still occupied by the previous tenants. If New Labour hadn't imported a million people we wouldn't have a housing crisis of these proportions.

[jakesmith]

Blackpuddin said:

Has anybody mooted the idea yet of a shock pre-election resignation by Corbyn, based on him and his acolytes finally acknowledging that he is the biggest obstacle to a Labour victory? It's not hard to imagine a big uplift in Labour support with someone like Starmer taking over.
Not sure of the ramifications or whether there would be time to implement it, just wondering if it might be something they've thought about.

He will stand down the day after the election no matter the outcome, he has in all likelihood suffered a stroke hence the dropped face for the tv debate and the fresnel lens on his glasses. It is too late to replace him and if he stood down, before a leadership election McDonnel would stand in and he is too toxic. So Corbyn trundles on with the end in sight finally.

[oop north]

Just looked at the labour manifesto and done some maths on dividend tax

With
(a) increase in corporation tax rate (to 21% for company with profits up to £300k - v planned reduction by Tories to 17%)
(b) increase in dividend tax rate to income tax rate (so 20% instead of 7.5% and 40% instead of 32.5% etc), and
(c) income tax rate going up by 5% for income above £80,000,
the combined effect of the various changes on income in range £80k-£100k is a change from a marginal tax rate of about 44% (£10,000 pre-tax profit less 17% CT gives 8,300 div then tax at 32.5% gives £5,603 post-tax div) to about 56.5% (10,000 pre-tax profit less 21% CT gives £7,900 then tax at 45% gives £4,345 post-tax div). So not the extra 5% they say people with income of £80k plus should pay - actually 12.5% increase in effective marginal rate on underlying income

That doesn't include removal of £2k dividend allowance and replacement with nominal £500, which would cost an additional £300 (20% basic rate* x £1,500). So a marginal rate of around 58% on the £20k from £80k-£100k. And a spectacular marginal rate on the income from £100k-£125k, approaching 90%

Higher rate income from taxable income of £37.5k-£80k goes from 44% to 53%. Basic rate on £37.5k goes from 23% to 37%

So go self-employed? Lots of benefits in kind through the company? Increase giving to charity? More in pension? Or just hope Corbyn doesn't get in. The manifesto doesn't like people getting income from wealth, only from working... It will make more work for accountants...

Neither my wife nor I gets more than £80k pre-tax income and I have worked out the cost to us would be about £6k pa. (Though with one daughter just started at medical school she would save nearly £60k of tuition fees over six years, and daughter no 2 if she does a regular degree it would be near-£30k saved... ) Interesting that if you believed labour (without reading the small print) it would only be people earning over £80k who pay more and if earning £100k would be £1k extra only.

[* not entirely sure that is the correct rate but it only ever gave basic rate relief anyway because it used up £2k of the basic rate band]

Not seen anything clear on tax relief on pension contributions but they seem upset that a small proportion of people have a high proportion of funds tied up in pensions, so there may be something on that in due course

[turbobloke]

ORD said:

People forget that it’s by utter fluke that the economy has not collapsed to dust already. Risking it all with huge borrowing for current spending is reckless to the point of serious immorality.
But the Labour Party is no longer a party of grown ups. And children are reckless.

Surely adults recall that when something looks too good to be true, especially when it's a free lunch and free most other things, it actually is too god to be true. What Corbyn and McDonnell plan to do that's not explicit in the manifesto if they hook the keys to Number 10 doesn't bear thinking about as they must know their plans would screw the economy and the country with it and require more unpalatable measures to fix down the line. So how do they prevent an immediate turnaround at the next election, even if they could then blame the Tories for the painful fix?

[kev1974]

oop north said:

Though with one daughter just started at medical school she would save nearly £60k of tuition fees over six years, and daughter no 2 if she does a regular degree it would be near-£30k saved...

A lot of the manifesto promises are suffixed "by the end of the parliament" i.e. may not be enacted for some years even if they do get in. I haven't checked but a tuition fees giveaway might be one of those delayed ones.

[996owner]

oop north said:

Not seen anything clear on tax relief on pension contributions but they seem upset that a small proportion of people have a high proportion of funds tied up in pensions, so there may be something on that in due course

hmm Another pension pot raid on the cards?

[Stay in Bed Instead]

oop north said:

Just looked at the labour manifesto and done some maths on dividend tax

With
(a) increase in corporation tax rate (to 21% for company with profits up to £300k - v planned reduction by Tories to 17%)
(b) increase in dividend tax rate to income tax rate (so 20% instead of 7.5% and 40% instead of 32.5% etc), and
(c) income tax rate going up by 5% for income above £80,000,
the combined effect of the various changes on income in range £80k-£100k is a change from a marginal tax rate of about 44% (£10,000 pre-tax profit less 17% CT gives 8,300 div then tax at 32.5% gives £5,603 post-tax div) to about 56.5% (10,000 pre-tax profit less 21% CT gives £7,900 then tax at 45% gives £4,345 post-tax div). So not the extra 5% they say people with income of £80k plus should pay - actually 12.5% increase in effective marginal rate on underlying income

That doesn't include removal of £2k dividend allowance and replacement with nominal £500, which would cost an additional £300 (20% basic rate* x £1,500). So a marginal rate of around 58% on the £20k from £80k-£100k. And a spectacular marginal rate on the income from £100k-£125k, approaching 90%

Higher rate income from taxable income of £37.5k-£80k goes from 44% to 53%. Basic rate on £37.5k goes from 23% to 37%

So go self-employed? Lots of benefits in kind through the company? Increase giving to charity? More in pension? Or just hope Corbyn doesn't get in. The manifesto doesn't like people getting income from wealth, only from working... It will make more work for accountants...

Neither my wife nor I gets more than £80k pre-tax income and I have worked out the cost to us would be about £6k pa. (Though with one daughter just started at medical school she would save nearly £60k of tuition fees over six years, and daughter no 2 if she does a regular degree it would be near-£30k saved... ) Interesting that if you believed labour (without reading the small print) it would only be people earning over £80k who pay more and if earning £100k would be £1k extra only.

[* not entirely sure that is the correct rate but it only ever gave basic rate relief anyway because it used up £2k of the basic rate band]

Not seen anything clear on tax relief on pension contributions but they seem upset that a small proportion of people have a high proportion of funds tied up in pensions, so there may be something on that in due course

Tories have abandoned the 17% corporation tax rate.