Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)
Discussion
edh said:
If Corbyn does get in it will be the fault of many economists and businesses, who are the little boy who cried wolf over Brexit. Not those Tories pointing out the nonsense they have been spouting. 
Edited by JagLover on Friday 22 November 14:15
Crafty_ said:
Makes sense. Imagine if Automation becomes widespread, lots of people not working and not paying tax. Revenue protection.
Automation is everywhere. When my dad started out, he was a clerk in a bank. A clerk was the bloke who wrote out statements and updated ledgers - by hand. If you cashed a cheque, then a bloke wrote in a big book with an ink pen. Yes, really, I’ve seen some of these ledgers. Dad did well, and went from clerk to the board of said bank (which still exists).
Imagine if these bonkers policies had been in place then? Would the clerks have said, hang on, we like writing stuff in ledgers, we don’t want any of those fancy pants computers brought in? Would we be the only country that still had people in the back office with quill pens writing stuff on vellum?
Thankfully such policies didn’t exist then. As a result do we have hordes of unemployed clerks homeless on the streets? No, the banks employ more people than they did then, provide more services, and provide those services to nearly the entire population.
Honestly, this is Stone Age thinking.
edh said:
"I'm sure they're right" (that a Corbyn government would wreck the economy, it says in the text).That's from a voting member of the public, presumably, so why should other voters not be sure they're right?
Wording in the extract shown gives the game away. There are sweeping generalisations involving extreme conditions. Nobody has been saying that "all predictions" are "always wrong". The writer is protesting too much.
And if in spite of that hyperbole, if this voter (the writer) gets it, many will get it.
Apart from some youthful types who weren't alive or old enough to notice, voters have experienced more than one national trainwreck under Labour governments and this one would be the most extreme Labour government yet. The article's claim is false. A strong argument for not voting Corbyn into No 10 has not been thrown away.
rxe said:
Crafty_ said:
Makes sense. Imagine if Automation becomes widespread, lots of people not working and not paying tax. Revenue protection.
Automation is everywhere. When my dad started out, he was a clerk in a bank. A clerk was the bloke who wrote out statements and updated ledgers - by hand. If you cashed a cheque, then a bloke wrote in a big book with an ink pen. Yes, really, I’ve seen some of these ledgers. Dad did well, and went from clerk to the board of said bank (which still exists).
Imagine if these bonkers policies had been in place then? Would the clerks have said, hang on, we like writing stuff in ledgers, we don’t want any of those fancy pants computers brought in? Would we be the only country that still had people in the back office with quill pens writing stuff on vellum?
Thankfully such policies didn’t exist then. As a result do we have hordes of unemployed clerks homeless on the streets? No, the banks employ more people than they did then, provide more services, and provide those services to nearly the entire population.
Honestly, this is Stone Age thinking.
Autonomous vehicles are never going to be developed, AI is going to be held back.....but only in the UK as the rest of the world will push ahead with it. So in the end UK jobs will move overseas.
The Don of Croy said:
It gets better;
We will review
the copyright framework to ensure
fair remuneration for artists and
content creators.
Good luck with copyright work, although I think the UK is pretty good at that already? Certainly judging by the fees we were charged for trademark stuff a few years ago...
I think this is a dig at the Evil corporations like Spotify and Amazon. They don't pay much per stream and the more famous (rich) you are the more you can negotiate. So the Beatles get 5p per stream and Bullett and the Pistonheads get 0.0001p which isn't fair. So Labour will enforce equal pay per stream which will make the model untenable so no-one gets paid.We will review
the copyright framework to ensure
fair remuneration for artists and
content creators.
Good luck with copyright work, although I think the UK is pretty good at that already? Certainly judging by the fees we were charged for trademark stuff a few years ago...
Except Billy Bragg.
Gecko1978 said:
rxe said:
Crafty_ said:
Makes sense. Imagine if Automation becomes widespread, lots of people not working and not paying tax. Revenue protection.
Automation is everywhere. When my dad started out, he was a clerk in a bank. A clerk was the bloke who wrote out statements and updated ledgers - by hand. If you cashed a cheque, then a bloke wrote in a big book with an ink pen. Yes, really, I’ve seen some of these ledgers. Dad did well, and went from clerk to the board of said bank (which still exists).
Imagine if these bonkers policies had been in place then? Would the clerks have said, hang on, we like writing stuff in ledgers, we don’t want any of those fancy pants computers brought in? Would we be the only country that still had people in the back office with quill pens writing stuff on vellum?
Thankfully such policies didn’t exist then. As a result do we have hordes of unemployed clerks homeless on the streets? No, the banks employ more people than they did then, provide more services, and provide those services to nearly the entire population.
Honestly, this is Stone Age thinking.
Autonomous vehicles are never going to be developed, AI is going to be held back.....but only in the UK as the rest of the world will push ahead with it. So in the end UK jobs will move overseas.
I honestly don't think some people have got their heads around just how much everything around them is the product of automated, mechanised, electrified (etc, etc, etc) invention, which has made life quite literally a f
king doddle compared to just a couple of hundred years ago.Yet are the streets awash with unemployed telephone operators and librarians and lamp-lighters? They are not, since these people are now gainfully (more gainfully) employed doing something else.
Ridgemont said:
AJL308 said:
Earthdweller said:
Just listened to McDonnel on Politics Live point blank refusing to answer how many council houses the Welsh Labour Govt had built and then blaming Tory austerity for them only building 59
The veneer was starting to slip .. “wait till you see a Corbyn Govt”
There’s a real nastiness in McDonnell and it was starting to show through
We won't though, not in any meaningful sense anyway. He's the "useful idiot" put there to get support and the young and the gullible are falling for it. As soon as he's won he'll be sent "Hill Walking".The veneer was starting to slip .. “wait till you see a Corbyn Govt”
There’s a real nastiness in McDonnell and it was starting to show through
‘f
k this, I hope they get in just to remind the credulous in years to come that the hard left really are able to build a highway to hell out of other peoples money’. Absolutely bonkers stuff, and yet I still have my naive brother talking about voting for his local labour mp even if he disapproves of Corbyn, cos y’know ‘Tories’...Nice one. See how that works for him as she props up this shower of tin pot chavistas.
The effect of the current Labour shower winning power won't just be a re-run of the late 1970's, although that would be bad enough in itself. There is a deeply unpleasant, nasty, self-righteous underbelly to the current left. The obvious anti-semitism, the equally obvious support for incredibly unpleasant terrorist organisations, the almost irrational hatred of private business and private wealth, in JC's case the seeming hatred of the UK state as it is currently established, the list goes on.
Very, very dark times are ahead if these unpleasant, racist Muppets ever get into power. If my business were portable and I had a few quid then I'd seriously be considering moving the hell away.
The Don of Croy said:
Have just been reading the manifesto - as I'm sure you all have.
Great stuff - full of vision, passion, creativity,...and holes. Big holes where answers should be...
Local authorities can take over bus companies - because they naturally have the skills to run these. And they'll be low carbon too. So the capital requirement will be...?
They back nuclear...but say nothing about who/how/cost/where.
There is a mantra of 'good jobs' with 'full unionisation' across pretty much all sectors - just like that! Question - if public ownership is unarguably the best way to operate major infrastructure (presumably including airports and toll bridges) then why would you also need unions? The state will already have the workers' best interests at heart - it's all over the manifesto - so why add an extra layer?
However as a casual reader with a hankering for 'fairness' it appeals. As for real-world pragmatism it is lacking. Be a fun experiment until about 6 months in when nothing is achieved, and everyone is poorer, and annoyed, and on strike...
It's a Christmas election. By next Christmas there will be rumblings of unhappiness and people pointing out how much more than last year their Turkey and trimmings cost. The following Christmas will be full on Winter of Discontent, the Turkey will cost six times more than last year, no one will be watching the Dr Who Christmas special because the power stations will be on strike (and it probably won't even have been made because the sound engineers will have been on strike over the summer when they were supposed to make it) and the streets will be full of bin nags filled with the sGreat stuff - full of vision, passion, creativity,...and holes. Big holes where answers should be...
Local authorities can take over bus companies - because they naturally have the skills to run these. And they'll be low carbon too. So the capital requirement will be...?
They back nuclear...but say nothing about who/how/cost/where.
There is a mantra of 'good jobs' with 'full unionisation' across pretty much all sectors - just like that! Question - if public ownership is unarguably the best way to operate major infrastructure (presumably including airports and toll bridges) then why would you also need unions? The state will already have the workers' best interests at heart - it's all over the manifesto - so why add an extra layer?
However as a casual reader with a hankering for 'fairness' it appeals. As for real-world pragmatism it is lacking. Be a fun experiment until about 6 months in when nothing is achieved, and everyone is poorer, and annoyed, and on strike...
t from Halloween which still hasn't been picked up. 
The Don of Croy said:
My studies continue (slow day at work)...
There will be an Orgreave enquiry (£?), and sundry attempts to pursue 'popular justice' with other individual cases ('Truth about Zane') all funded by HMG.
In the food security ideas there's a throw-away comment about special steps to ensure 'food security' which might mean something benign, or there again...?
Fair compensation (that word again) for victims of contaminated blood seems OK.
There's a fair bit of loose wording regarding making companies source from the UK if they get HMG money/contracts, and have to meet unspecified green conditions, or risk de-listing from the LSE. Nice. And they will comprehensively audit foreign imports for carbon content and arrive at some level of compo. Eh?
[b]And ICE cars will no longer be sold (new) after 2030 - just a decade away!
[/b]There will be an Orgreave enquiry (£?), and sundry attempts to pursue 'popular justice' with other individual cases ('Truth about Zane') all funded by HMG.
In the food security ideas there's a throw-away comment about special steps to ensure 'food security' which might mean something benign, or there again...?
Fair compensation (that word again) for victims of contaminated blood seems OK.
There's a fair bit of loose wording regarding making companies source from the UK if they get HMG money/contracts, and have to meet unspecified green conditions, or risk de-listing from the LSE. Nice. And they will comprehensively audit foreign imports for carbon content and arrive at some level of compo. Eh?
[b]And ICE cars will no longer be sold (new) after 2030 - just a decade away!
No one will have any money to buy anything like a car by then anyway as they will cost eleventy twelve billion ponds (a loaf of bread being a mere eleventy billion). Apart, of course, from the "super rich" who will have f
ked right off by then anyway.The Don of Croy said:
It gets better;
We will work with trade unions and
employers to make creative jobs
accessible for all, ensuring diversity
in these industries so that everyone
sees themselves represented on
screen and on stage. [b]We will review
the copyright framework to ensure
fair remuneration for artists and
content creators.[/b]
Has anyone noticed a lack of diversity in any recent 'cultural' event that might reflect this statement? Although having said that, if I self identify as 'hatstand' from hereon I'd like to see 'hatstand' represented in Eastenders. Tomorrow.
Good luck with copyright work, although I think the UK is pretty good at that already? Certainly judging by the fees we were charged for trademark stuff a few years ago...
In a desperate attempt to get you to not fWe will work with trade unions and
employers to make creative jobs
accessible for all, ensuring diversity
in these industries so that everyone
sees themselves represented on
screen and on stage. [b]We will review
the copyright framework to ensure
fair remuneration for artists and
content creators.[/b]
Has anyone noticed a lack of diversity in any recent 'cultural' event that might reflect this statement? Although having said that, if I self identify as 'hatstand' from hereon I'd like to see 'hatstand' represented in Eastenders. Tomorrow.
Good luck with copyright work, although I think the UK is pretty good at that already? Certainly judging by the fees we were charged for trademark stuff a few years ago...
k off to LA like Rod Stewart during the last hard left Labour government because we're going to take 98% of everything you earn. pingu393 said:
NoddyonNitrous said:
Burwood said:
Lower motorway speeds, fuel duty hikes and stop building new roads. ICE car owners are going to be walloped
And when their numbers have dwindled, the tax burden will be reaped from electric cars instead.No new roads, but a large increase in population through immigration; the workers will walk or the rich ones can cycle.
rxe said:
Automation is everywhere.
When my dad started out, he was a clerk in a bank. A clerk was the bloke who wrote out statements and updated ledgers - by hand. If you cashed a cheque, then a bloke wrote in a big book with an ink pen. Yes, really, I’ve seen some of these ledgers. Dad did well, and went from clerk to the board of said bank (which still exists).
Imagine if these bonkers policies had been in place then? Would the clerks have said, hang on, we like writing stuff in ledgers, we don’t want any of those fancy pants computers brought in? Would we be the only country that still had people in the back office with quill pens writing stuff on vellum?
Thankfully such policies didn’t exist then. As a result do we have hordes of unemployed clerks homeless on the streets? No, the banks employ more people than they did then, provide more services, and provide those services to nearly the entire population.
Honestly, this is Stone Age thinking.
This is the essential point. Contrary to what the left want you to believe, companies do not want to get rid of their staff. If you can automate a process it means that you can re-allocate your people elsewhere which may include expanding into areas you didn't have the resources to move into before.When my dad started out, he was a clerk in a bank. A clerk was the bloke who wrote out statements and updated ledgers - by hand. If you cashed a cheque, then a bloke wrote in a big book with an ink pen. Yes, really, I’ve seen some of these ledgers. Dad did well, and went from clerk to the board of said bank (which still exists).
Imagine if these bonkers policies had been in place then? Would the clerks have said, hang on, we like writing stuff in ledgers, we don’t want any of those fancy pants computers brought in? Would we be the only country that still had people in the back office with quill pens writing stuff on vellum?
Thankfully such policies didn’t exist then. As a result do we have hordes of unemployed clerks homeless on the streets? No, the banks employ more people than they did then, provide more services, and provide those services to nearly the entire population.
Honestly, this is Stone Age thinking.
AJL308 said:
The Don of Croy said:
Have just been reading the manifesto - as I'm sure you all have.
Great stuff - full of vision, passion, creativity,...and holes. Big holes where answers should be...
Local authorities can take over bus companies - because they naturally have the skills to run these. And they'll be low carbon too. So the capital requirement will be...?
They back nuclear...but say nothing about who/how/cost/where.
There is a mantra of 'good jobs' with 'full unionisation' across pretty much all sectors - just like that! Question - if public ownership is unarguably the best way to operate major infrastructure (presumably including airports and toll bridges) then why would you also need unions? The state will already have the workers' best interests at heart - it's all over the manifesto - so why add an extra layer?
However as a casual reader with a hankering for 'fairness' it appeals. As for real-world pragmatism it is lacking. Be a fun experiment until about 6 months in when nothing is achieved, and everyone is poorer, and annoyed, and on strike...
It's a Christmas election. By next Christmas there will be rumblings of unhappiness and people pointing out how much more than last year their Turkey and trimmings cost. The following Christmas will be full on Winter of Discontent, the Turkey will cost six times more than last year, no one will be watching the Dr Who Christmas special because the power stations will be on strike (and it probably won't even have been made because the sound engineers will have been on strike over the summer when they were supposed to make it) and the streets will be full of bin nags filled with the sGreat stuff - full of vision, passion, creativity,...and holes. Big holes where answers should be...
Local authorities can take over bus companies - because they naturally have the skills to run these. And they'll be low carbon too. So the capital requirement will be...?
They back nuclear...but say nothing about who/how/cost/where.
There is a mantra of 'good jobs' with 'full unionisation' across pretty much all sectors - just like that! Question - if public ownership is unarguably the best way to operate major infrastructure (presumably including airports and toll bridges) then why would you also need unions? The state will already have the workers' best interests at heart - it's all over the manifesto - so why add an extra layer?
However as a casual reader with a hankering for 'fairness' it appeals. As for real-world pragmatism it is lacking. Be a fun experiment until about 6 months in when nothing is achieved, and everyone is poorer, and annoyed, and on strike...
t from Halloween which still hasn't been picked up. AJL308 said:
This is the essential point. Contrary to what the left want you to believe, companies do not want to get rid of their staff. If you can automate a process it means that you can re-allocate your people elsewhere which may include expanding into areas you didn't have the resources to move into before.
Unless the company then does not have the need for that level of staff.Fruit growers/picking near me has just been automated, 90% Staff reduction and more productivity/less waste. Those drones are not needed now.
Burwood said:
AJL308 said:
The Don of Croy said:
Have just been reading the manifesto - as I'm sure you all have.
Great stuff - full of vision, passion, creativity,...and holes. Big holes where answers should be...
Local authorities can take over bus companies - because they naturally have the skills to run these. And they'll be low carbon too. So the capital requirement will be...?
They back nuclear...but say nothing about who/how/cost/where.
There is a mantra of 'good jobs' with 'full unionisation' across pretty much all sectors - just like that! Question - if public ownership is unarguably the best way to operate major infrastructure (presumably including airports and toll bridges) then why would you also need unions? The state will already have the workers' best interests at heart - it's all over the manifesto - so why add an extra layer?
However as a casual reader with a hankering for 'fairness' it appeals. As for real-world pragmatism it is lacking. Be a fun experiment until about 6 months in when nothing is achieved, and everyone is poorer, and annoyed, and on strike...
It's a Christmas election. By next Christmas there will be rumblings of unhappiness and people pointing out how much more than last year their Turkey and trimmings cost. The following Christmas will be full on Winter of Discontent, the Turkey will cost six times more than last year, no one will be watching the Dr Who Christmas special because the power stations will be on strike (and it probably won't even have been made because the sound engineers will have been on strike over the summer when they were supposed to make it) and the streets will be full of bin nags filled with the sGreat stuff - full of vision, passion, creativity,...and holes. Big holes where answers should be...
Local authorities can take over bus companies - because they naturally have the skills to run these. And they'll be low carbon too. So the capital requirement will be...?
They back nuclear...but say nothing about who/how/cost/where.
There is a mantra of 'good jobs' with 'full unionisation' across pretty much all sectors - just like that! Question - if public ownership is unarguably the best way to operate major infrastructure (presumably including airports and toll bridges) then why would you also need unions? The state will already have the workers' best interests at heart - it's all over the manifesto - so why add an extra layer?
However as a casual reader with a hankering for 'fairness' it appeals. As for real-world pragmatism it is lacking. Be a fun experiment until about 6 months in when nothing is achieved, and everyone is poorer, and annoyed, and on strike...
t from Halloween which still hasn't been picked up. Dont like rolls said:
AJL308 said:
This is the essential point. Contrary to what the left want you to believe, companies do not want to get rid of their staff. If you can automate a process it means that you can re-allocate your people elsewhere which may include expanding into areas you didn't have the resources to move into before.
Unless the company then does not have the need for that level of staff.Fruit growers/picking near me has just been automated, 90% Staff reduction and more productivity/less waste. Those drones are not needed now.
Much of farming is. Some, like my old employer, would rotate staff between seasons to other owned farms in southern Europe, and back.
Others won't have that option.
The costs of standing up, then standing down, large numbers of seasonal staff for low wages, are massive.
Hence the drive to automation - and long may it continue.
For the vast majority of businesses, increased efficiency and productivity via automation is a route to higher value activities for the staff previously doing effectively menial work.
edh said:
Except that there is a huge body of economic literature and history to explain in painstaking detail exactly how and why Corbyn's ludicrous policies will destroy economic growth and cause huge damage.There is economic theory to explain why certain elements of Brexit will be disruptive to parts of the economy and imperfect examples in economic history but it is nowhere near the same obvious (to any level headed person) wanton destruction of electing a full on communist PM. In 2019 ffs.
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