Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 3)

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George Smiley

3,932 posts

32 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
98elise said:
George Smiley said:
bazza white said:
Am I right in thinking labour's policies make being paid through a ltd company pointless.

So whilst they bark on about the 5% only being hit reality is even a sparky/handyman/beautician etc on average earnings of 28k a year is going to get shafted for a grand a year changing over to paye eek
It's one area I agree with. Should it be right I could book over 100k, pay myself 640 a month (no paye or ni) then top up with lightly taxed dividends?

Most ltds are done for this reason alone.
Are dividends lightly taxed? I need to have a word with my accountant if that's the case!
Certainly less than paye

Bussolini

6,888 posts

36 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Crippo said:
If Labour is elected then I’m going to demand a new election. After all people didn’t know what they were voting for when he said he was going renegotiate a credible deal with Europe and doesn’t. That they thought only the Rich would pay abit more tax but actually everyone gets walloped with significant tax rises and that the marvellous NHS which was promised loads of investment is now over run with health tourists and strikes. After all if the losers can demand a second referendum when the most democratic of all votes happened in 2016, then I’m damned sure the losers could demand another ejection if the wrong government is elected. At the end of the day Brexit is a walk in the park compared with Corbyn & McDonnell
The point you are trying to make is silly considering we will have another election in five years time. It's not forever.

Ridgemont

3,217 posts

82 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Crippo said:
If Labour is elected then I’m going to demand a new election. After all people didn’t know what they were voting for when he said he was going renegotiate a credible deal with Europe and doesn’t. That they thought only the Rich would pay abit more tax but actually everyone gets walloped with significant tax rises and that the marvellous NHS which was promised loads of investment is now over run with health tourists and strikes. After all if the losers can demand a second referendum when the most democratic of all votes happened in 2016, then I’m damned sure the losers could demand another ejection if the wrong government is elected. At the end of the day Brexit is a walk in the park compared with Corbyn & McDonnell
The point you are trying to make is silly considering we will have another election in five years time. It's not forever.
Neither is Brexit. All you need to do is get a party to adopt remain, or maybe next year, return, win an election with a majority on a premise of remain/return referendum and then (providing losers consent this time actually occurs instead of 3 years of butthurt) away you go.

I’m sure such a proposition will be immensely popular.

bazza white

2,650 posts

79 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Another 57 billion for waspi. Agree with the women or not it's a big chunk of money to find. I wonder how much more labour can add between now and the 12th.


Wombat3

8,682 posts

157 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
George Smiley said:
98elise said:
George Smiley said:
bazza white said:
Am I right in thinking labour's policies make being paid through a ltd company pointless.

So whilst they bark on about the 5% only being hit reality is even a sparky/handyman/beautician etc on average earnings of 28k a year is going to get shafted for a grand a year changing over to paye eek
It's one area I agree with. Should it be right I could book over 100k, pay myself 640 a month (no paye or ni) then top up with lightly taxed dividends?

Most ltds are done for this reason alone.
Are dividends lightly taxed? I need to have a word with my accountant if that's the case!
Certainly less than paye
Not really. In order to pay a dividend you first have to make a profit...
on which you first pay corporation tax.

The combined tax take from Corp tax +Divi tax is little different from PAYE

JagLover

27,954 posts

186 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
bazza white said:
Another 57 billion for waspi. Agree with the women or not it's a big chunk of money to find. I wonder how much more labour can add between now and the 12th.
Find? hehe

To Labour taxpayers money is infinite and free and if they start running out they will just print some more.

Burwood

14,883 posts

197 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
bazza white said:
Another 57 billion for waspi. Agree with the women or not it's a big chunk of money to find. I wonder how much more labour can add between now and the 12th.
Find? hehe

To Labour taxpayers money is infinite and free and if they start running out they will just print some more.
Latest polls showing 19% gap now. They can afford to make any promises they want. I’m calling 400 seats. Complete humiliation

motco

12,891 posts

197 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Crippo said:
If Labour is elected then I’m going to demand a new election. After all people didn’t know what they were voting for when he said he was going renegotiate a credible deal with Europe and doesn’t. That they thought only the Rich would pay abit more tax but actually everyone gets walloped with significant tax rises and that the marvellous NHS which was promised loads of investment is now over run with health tourists and strikes. After all if the losers can demand a second referendum when the most democratic of all votes happened in 2016, then I’m damned sure the losers could demand another ejection if the wrong government is elected. At the end of the day Brexit is a walk in the park compared with Corbyn & McDonnell
The point you are trying to make is silly considering we will have another election in five years time. It's not forever.
Are you sure?



JBM78

311 posts

131 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Wombat3 said:
Not really. In order to pay a dividend you first have to make a profit...
on which you first pay corporation tax.

The combined tax take from Corp tax +Divi tax is little different from PAYE
NI savings though, particularly in relation to employer's NI

98elise

15,981 posts

112 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
George Smiley said:
98elise said:
George Smiley said:
bazza white said:
Am I right in thinking labour's policies make being paid through a ltd company pointless.

So whilst they bark on about the 5% only being hit reality is even a sparky/handyman/beautician etc on average earnings of 28k a year is going to get shafted for a grand a year changing over to paye eek
It's one area I agree with. Should it be right I could book over 100k, pay myself 640 a month (no paye or ni) then top up with lightly taxed dividends?

Most ltds are done for this reason alone.
Are dividends lightly taxed? I need to have a word with my accountant if that's the case!
Certainly less than paye
There is very little in it these days.

98elise

15,981 posts

112 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
JBM78 said:
Wombat3 said:
Not really. In order to pay a dividend you first have to make a profit...
on which you first pay corporation tax.

The combined tax take from Corp tax +Divi tax is little different from PAYE
NI savings though, particularly in relation to employer's NI
How much employers NI do PAYE employees pay?

Mort7

1,145 posts

59 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
motco said:
Excellent!

ant1973

131 posts

156 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
The biggest issue for me the deceptively reasonable suggestion that dividends should be paid at the same rate of tax as income. Most people will not appreciate that dividends are paid after tax. In reality, this is a massive tax hike for small, owner managed, businesses.

By my reckoning, if you own a company and earn a £100k profit and take it all as dividend (post payment of CT), you pay an overall effective rate of tax of 31.7%. If you are an employee and earn the same, you pay 33.4% (a pretty meager incentive you might say, all other things being equal).

Taking the combined effect of the Dear Leader's increases in CT and dividend tax rates, this increases to 45.2% Not really a "bit more", is it! It is a near 50% increase in tax. More to the point, it leaves an employee paying less tax than the business owner if they earning the same amount of money. This will shatter small businesses, full stop. If anything, it plays into the hands of big business by eroding competition.

So how would small business react to this? Some would shut down and move back into employment. As an employee they would earn less, since the employer will reduce their income by the rate of Employer's NI. The tax take is the same.

For those that remain, any slack in the business will be removed. That will involve making employee's redundant (or freezing recruitment) - tax take down for the state. Some will decide this is liable to be transient and wait it out. Sure we will pay more CT for 5 years but many will reduce their outgoings and earnings and wait it out for a change of government.

Some may go abroad and work for a period of time but family commitments will make this less likely.

I just cannot see how the state benefits from this. Labour do not understand (or care) about the basic law of incentives which drives people to start a business.

Stay in Bed Instead

18,995 posts

108 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
ant1973 said:
The biggest issue for me the deceptively reasonable suggestion that dividends should be paid at the same rate of tax as income. Most people will not appreciate that dividends are paid after tax. In reality, this is a massive tax hike for small, owner managed, businesses.

By my reckoning, if you own a company and earn a £100k profit and take it all as dividend (post payment of CT), you pay an overall effective rate of tax of 31.7%. If you are an employee and earn the same, you pay 33.4% (a pretty meager incentive you might say, all other things being equal).

Taking the combined effect of the Dear Leader's increases in CT and dividend tax rates, this increases to 45.2% Not really a "bit more", is it! It is a near 50% increase in tax. More to the point, it leaves an employee paying less tax than the business owner if they earning the same amount of money. This will shatter small businesses, full stop. If anything, it plays into the hands of big business by eroding competition.

So how would small business react to this? Some would shut down and move back into employment. As an employee they would earn less, since the employer will reduce their income by the rate of Employer's NI. The tax take is the same.

For those that remain, any slack in the business will be removed. That will involve making employee's redundant (or freezing recruitment) - tax take down for the state. Some will decide this is liable to be transient and wait it out. Sure we will pay more CT for 5 years but many will reduce their outgoings and earnings and wait it out for a change of government.

Some may go abroad and work for a period of time but family commitments will make this less likely.

I just cannot see how the state benefits from this. Labour do not understand (or care) about the basic law of incentives which drives people to start a business.
Don't forget the Tories invented the Dividend tax.

AJL308

3,363 posts

107 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
So Jezza will remain neutral in a future ref 'to respect the will of the people' he doesn't get this does he people want a strong leader to, you know, lead
He's even lying about that. They played his full quote on the radio the other day and it was something like;

I intend to remain neutral so that I can implement the result of a second referendum in an even handed manner. People chose to vote leave in the 2016 referendum but they did not vote to lose their jobs and be worse off.

So, he says he intends to remain neutral yet his very next sentence is an essentially remain one. Total moron.

Edited by AJL308 on Sunday 24th November 12:08

AJL308

3,363 posts

107 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Evanivitch said:
If you're earning over £120k you're definitely not middle class by most people's standard, except London of course. But until the Capitalist Kingdom of London is established, try to remember the rest of us still exist.
Lots in the off-shore industry would earn that. Easily achievable for a diver in the North Sea, let alone a senior one. I know people who do marine protection work who earn that and more.

AJL308

3,363 posts

107 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Zirconia said:
Don't worry, they will vote themselves another pay rise to hit that 80k+ target.
Not without first lifting the tax bar to 500 quid more than they vote themselves.

AJL308

3,363 posts

107 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Lots of people moaning about Rachel Riley pointing out Corbyn is a tw*t
Usually the same people who will happily and loudly call Boris (indeed any Tory supporter) a fascist!

loafer123

9,682 posts

166 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
ant1973 said:
The biggest issue for me the deceptively reasonable suggestion that dividends should be paid at the same rate of tax as income. Most people will not appreciate that dividends are paid after tax. In reality, this is a massive tax hike for small, owner managed, businesses.

By my reckoning, if you own a company and earn a £100k profit and take it all as dividend (post payment of CT), you pay an overall effective rate of tax of 31.7%. If you are an employee and earn the same, you pay 33.4% (a pretty meager incentive you might say, all other things being equal).

Taking the combined effect of the Dear Leader's increases in CT and dividend tax rates, this increases to 45.2% Not really a "bit more", is it! It is a near 50% increase in tax. More to the point, it leaves an employee paying less tax than the business owner if they earning the same amount of money. This will shatter small businesses, full stop. If anything, it plays into the hands of big business by eroding competition.

So how would small business react to this? Some would shut down and move back into employment. As an employee they would earn less, since the employer will reduce their income by the rate of Employer's NI. The tax take is the same.

For those that remain, any slack in the business will be removed. That will involve making employee's redundant (or freezing recruitment) - tax take down for the state. Some will decide this is liable to be transient and wait it out. Sure we will pay more CT for 5 years but many will reduce their outgoings and earnings and wait it out for a change of government.

Some may go abroad and work for a period of time but family commitments will make this less likely.

I just cannot see how the state benefits from this. Labour do not understand (or care) about the basic law of incentives which drives people to start a business.
Whilst I agree with your post, the logical thing would be for business owners to pay themselves through wages if that incurred less tax.

Personally, as the co-owner of several businesses, I do little tax planning/optimisation at the moment but would start to do so if Corbyn got in.

ant1973

131 posts

156 months

Sunday 24th November 2019
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Don't forget the Tories invented the Dividend tax.
I completely agree. The Tories have hardly been business friendly in the last decade. But what sane choice we have? If we want a better society it has to be paid for somehow. With a narrowing tax base, however, the position becomes ever more precarious. Those within that tax base are ever more vulnerable to taxation - particularly if they are immobile. There is no national consensus as to what amounts to a "fair" level of taxation or what it is intended to achieve. That's the problem. The NHS is a case in point. Demand for anything that is useful and free is liable to be infinite. You could make a compelling case for doubling the NHS budget and I do not doubt that outcomes would improve. Would the "improvement" in outcomes be doubled? Unlikely. So where do you draw the line. The more you spend on anything the more incremental the improvement. Not an absolute rule but not a bad rule of thumb. How much money would be saved if the causes of lifestyle choices were addressed? But that's too difficult a conversation for the political classes. Why is drink driving a social stigma but excessive drinking a "good laugh".
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