Anti-vax conspiraloons actually killing people.
Discussion
esxste said:
checkmate91 said:
Double dosing everyone because of a single figure failure rate? Didn't seem like the right answer at the time and still doesn't. Maybe I am an idiot but have a nice day.
Your logic is sound, if you're of the opinion that vaccines are dangerous. Of course, having the opinion that vaccines are dangerous is pretty idiotic.
I expect that the current vaccine situation is very different, but the pertussis shot was a vaccination on its own then, whereas it is now part of a multi type vaccination. We did not opt out of any other vaccinations and nor would we.
Edited by motco on Wednesday 22 August 16:49
captain_cynic said:
Jasandjules said:
captain_cynic said:
Sadly, once the anti-vaxxer ball was rolling, it's difficult to stop even though in 2012 Wakefield admitted he made the whole thing up.
Do you have a link to that ? Would like to read more.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC23230...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31360...
hairykrishna said:
That's because we have vaccination and only a few hundred cases a year total. Measles kills about 1 in 1000 kids who get it even with best case health care.
Where do you get your info from for this? Now I am on a roll having established the plumbing stopped disease not vaccines, and I found this placehttps://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles/d...
They massively disagree with you and appear to be doctors (or people claiming to be doctors, I know not at first glance which it is!)
Vizsla said:
Ian Geary said:
I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.
………. whilst kitting out water supply systems using neurotoxic lead pipes, what could possibly go wrong? 
AJL308 said:
Vizsla said:
Ian Geary said:
I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.
………. whilst kitting out water supply systems using neurotoxic lead pipes, what could possibly go wrong? Jasandjules said:
hairykrishna said:
That's because we have vaccination and only a few hundred cases a year total. Measles kills about 1 in 1000 kids who get it even with best case health care.
Where do you get your info from for this? Now I am on a roll having established the plumbing stopped disease not vaccines, and I found this placehttps://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles/d...
They massively disagree with you and appear to be doctors (or people claiming to be doctors, I know not at first glance which it is!)
nutjobs said:
Our vision is to live in a society free of mandatory vaccination laws.
All that you need to know in one sentence on their own website. Then again, if you think that homeopathic vet cured your dog, you'll buy their spiel.
Jasandjules said:
hairykrishna said:
That's because we have vaccination and only a few hundred cases a year total. Measles kills about 1 in 1000 kids who get it even with best case health care.
Where do you get your info from for this? Now I am on a roll having established the plumbing stopped disease not vaccines, and I found this placehttps://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles/d...
They massively disagree with you and appear to be doctors (or people claiming to be doctors, I know not at first glance which it is!)
The most recent data for a first world health system (2008-2011 epidemic in France) suggests a lower estimate of 0.45 deaths / 1000 see;
Antona D, Lévy-Bruhl D, Baudon C, et al. Measles Elimination Efforts and 2008–2011 Outbreak, France. Emerging Infectious Diseases. 2013;19(3):357-364. doi:10.3201/eid1903.121360.
.
I am comfortable with my statement of "about 1" covering this. Even if the death rate was 1% of this, or less, what's the argument? There are plenty of unpleasant complications short of death. The vaccine is safe.
Edited by hairykrishna on Wednesday 22 August 21:18
Jasandjules said:
Those do not say that Wakefield admitted making "The whole thing up" - notwithstanding it is not clear what is being alleged he made up.?!
They did, they said he faked the tests he based his whole thing on. From the title of the article
BMJ said:
Wakefield admits fabricating events when he took children’s blood samples
The entire study was based on lies. Sold using lies and eventually admitted to be lies. captain_cynic said:
The entire study was based on lies. Sold using lies and eventually admitted to be lies.
Wakefield never admitted they were lies. In fact Wakefield sued the BMJ in 2012 for claiming that he was guilty of "intentionally and knowingly manipulating or falsifying data and diagnoses.”Imagine writing a paper that you know is made up, has been shown to be made up; where 10 of your 12 co-authors have admitted interpretations and findings were completely wrong, and yet still feeling that you have firm ground for suing someone for calling you and your work is a bit shonky......
Jasandjules said:
hairykrishna said:
That's because we have vaccination and only a few hundred cases a year total. Measles kills about 1 in 1000 kids who get it even with best case health care.
Where do you get your info from for this? Now I am on a roll having established the plumbing stopped disease not vaccines, and I found this placehttps://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/measles/d...
They massively disagree with you and appear to be doctors (or people claiming to be doctors, I know not at first glance which it is!)
"On June 30, 2015, Dr. Shira Miller felt personally assaulted when California SB277 was signed into law. The law phased out personal belief and religious exemptions to vaccination for both private and public school attendance, and since Dr. Miller does not follow the SB277 list of mandatory vaccines for her children…she was devastated. While she was busy taking care of her patients and raising her young children, legislators voted away her fundamental rights–an act which shouldn’t be possible in this day and age. Dr. Miller doesn’t think she or any other parent should ever be bullied or coerced to vaccinate (medicate) their children against their better judgement. So, she called upon a team of physicians, scientists, and attorneys, and Physicians for Informed Consent was born.
When people immediately kick off about their rights because they are being told how to parent (whether that be right or wrong) rather than talk about whether it's good or bad for the child then I'm immediately suspicious that they have some personal agenda, are incredibly arrogant or just full of s
te.Parents don't have "rights" over their children or to do certain things because they have children. They have responsibilities towards them - nothing more.
That paragraph is basically "Me, me, me"; She was "devastated" (really?), had had her "fundamental rights" removed and even "personally assaulted"! I mean, what the actual f
k?? Edited by AJL308 on Thursday 23 August 16:35
rodericb said:
No one bothered to interrupt their argument to read the link. Here's another version:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/race-create-hal...
You lot are jumping up and down ranting about 'anti vaxxers' yet ignore other factors around communicable diseases and reasons they might be increasing in incidence.
rxe said:
Measels hasn’t killed a double digit number of people in the UK for 30 years. I’d be more worried about getting flu than measels. I’m a lot more worried about falling down the stairs than both combined.
Can’t spell the disease, doesn’t understand the statistics on the disease, and decides not to vaccinate because of the risk of a consistions that is not caused by the vaccine. I honestly despair.
Jonesy23 said:
No one bothered to interrupt their argument to read the link.
Here's another version:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/race-create-hal...
You lot are jumping up and down ranting about 'anti vaxxers' yet ignore other factors around communicable diseases and reasons they might be increasing in incidence.
There are no other reasons, it is down to idiots not vaccinating their children.Here's another version:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/race-create-hal...
You lot are jumping up and down ranting about 'anti vaxxers' yet ignore other factors around communicable diseases and reasons they might be increasing in incidence.
James_B said:
There are no other reasons, it is down to idiots not vaccinating their children.
This does not appear logical. People have said my Plumber was correct and clean water/sewers prevented the millions of deaths from these diseases. So it was not vaccines then is the only conclusion I can draw, despite what I was taught. I assume I was lied to by teachers who told me that millions died until vaccines came along yet it seems everyone knows that it was clean water and sewers (well everyone except me as I believed what I was taught) etc So why are we told it was vaccines? And how is not vaccinating the cause when it was not vaccines that cured in the first place? Jasandjules said:
This does not appear logical. People have said my Plumber was correct and clean water/sewers prevented the millions of deaths from these diseases. So it was not vaccines then is the only conclusion I can draw, despite what I was taught. I assume I was lied to by teachers who told me that millions died until vaccines came along yet it seems everyone knows that it was clean water and sewers (well everyone except me as I believed what I was taught) etc So why are we told it was vaccines? And how is not vaccinating the cause when it was not vaccines that cured in the first place?
Vaccines do not cure - they prevent. Clean water did *most* of the work at stopping many diseases from spreading and becoming huge epidemics.
Then you just had more localised outbreaks I suppose, or you'd hear about a couple of children at your school every year getting "something" nasty and never coming back, or being permanently disabled afterwards.
Vaccines have done the bit to slow and in some cases, stop that from happening at all.
Jasandjules said:
This does not appear logical. People have said my Plumber was correct and clean water/sewers prevented the millions of deaths from these diseases. So it was not vaccines then is the only conclusion I can draw, despite what I was taught. I assume I was lied to by teachers who told me that millions died until vaccines came along yet it seems everyone knows that it was clean water and sewers (well everyone except me as I believed what I was taught) etc So why are we told it was vaccines? And how is not vaccinating the cause when it was not vaccines that cured in the first place?
Is measles mumps or rubella spread through contaminated water? What about TB or smallpox..... ok I'll grant you that Polio is, although even that is much easier to contain (and eradicate) in countries with poor infrastructure if you vaccinate, it's also much cheaper to vaccinate rather than try and fit sewage treatment plants to tribal villages in the middle of nowhere. Clean water (and food) as well as good sanitation have been instrumental in preventing diseases, but vaccination has also contributed just as much. Imagine a world where smallpox infection was rife. Given our cosmopolitan lifestyles and crowded cities (smallpox has an R0 of between 3.5 and 6, and a mortality rate of 30%), can you imagine how many people would have died had vaccines not eradicated the disease?
There's not a plumber in the world can claim credit for ridding us of smallpox
I joined an anti-vaxxer group 'for a laugh'. I thought I'd have a bit of fun at their expense but Jesus H Christ these people (all of whom have no doubt been vaccinated and are perfectly *physically* healthy) are utterly f*cking mental.
The only upside that I can see is their offspring will be more likely to perish and ultimately improve the quality of the gene pool.
Yes, that sounds a little harsh but they're utterly fking ruthless in their refusal to discuss vaccination.
The only upside that I can see is their offspring will be more likely to perish and ultimately improve the quality of the gene pool.
Yes, that sounds a little harsh but they're utterly f
king ruthless in their refusal to discuss vaccination.WinstonWolf said:
I joined an anti-vaxxer group 'for a laugh'. I thought I'd have a bit of fun at their expense but Jesus H Christ these people (all of whom have no doubt been vaccinated and are perfectly *physically* healthy) are utterly f*cking mental.
The only upside that I can see is their offspring will be more likely to perish and ultimately improve the quality of the gene pool.
Yes, that sounds a little harsh but they're utterly fking ruthless in their refusal to discuss vaccination.
There are quite a few threads on Redditt, where children of these people are asking how to get vaccinated without their parents consent. The only upside that I can see is their offspring will be more likely to perish and ultimately improve the quality of the gene pool.
Yes, that sounds a little harsh but they're utterly f
king ruthless in their refusal to discuss vaccination.Vandenberg said:
WinstonWolf said:
I joined an anti-vaxxer group 'for a laugh'. I thought I'd have a bit of fun at their expense but Jesus H Christ these people (all of whom have no doubt been vaccinated and are perfectly *physically* healthy) are utterly f*cking mental.
The only upside that I can see is their offspring will be more likely to perish and ultimately improve the quality of the gene pool.
Yes, that sounds a little harsh but they're utterly fking ruthless in their refusal to discuss vaccination.
There are quite a few threads on Redditt, where children of these people are asking how to get vaccinated without their parents consent. The only upside that I can see is their offspring will be more likely to perish and ultimately improve the quality of the gene pool.
Yes, that sounds a little harsh but they're utterly f
king ruthless in their refusal to discuss vaccination.
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