Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. (Vol 5)
Discussion
Jinx said:
POINT 1 we don't know even if there is a problem (POINT 2 for there to be a problem the "positive feedbacks" that so far have not materialised need to kick in)
Maybe what you're saying isn't what I'm seeing.I agree with POINT 2 that there needs to be overall positive feedback for 'the problem' i.e. permanent dangerous manmade warming to exist, also that this has not materialised (and in the past there has been recovery from warm periods aka climate optima as well as from ice ages, so the alarmists' runaway positive feedback is absent so far in the geological history of the planet).
From that, the first point (POINT 1) appears to be ruled out i.e. "we don't know even if there is a problem" since the feedback criterion in POINT 2 is not met, unless your implicit point is that despite a past with CO2 levels from ~150 ppmv carbon dioxide to ~7000 ppmv, in a future within the same ppmv range some as-yet inoperative process will start to operate?
Moving back to IPCC emissions, their reports with statements of conjecture disguised as statistically meaningful numbers via use of percentages e.g. 90% / 95% is a significant problem when readers won't appreciate what's going on.
The McKitrick and Christy 2018 paper has some very challenging questions for the agw hypothisis. What's your take on the p-values and corresponding minuscule probability of falsely rejecting the agw null hypothesis? Is there concern because (for example) satellites don't sample the atmospheric temperature at a particular altitude at all locations at the same time?
As above maybe what you're saying isn't what I'm seeing.
wc98 said:
yep. it is hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. someone posted a link to no tricks zone recently. i have probably done so myself in the past, and been burnt the same way. satellite "data" is a favourite of many sceptics, it was for me to until i read what goes into creating it. as a result i personally believe a "global average temperature" is impossible to know. in reality we have cold bits at the poles and it gets progressively warmer toward the equator with a bit of intermixing due to weather events.
there are so many ways the planet can shed heat and the fact we have never seen catastrophic runaway warming since man inhabited earth leads me to believe we never will. there are many ways humans do contribute to some warming,but for me it is and always will be inconsequential in the big scheme of things.come the next glaciation we will need all the warming we can get. i will be dead by then so i don't really care.
Two sillies suggested by your, cough, theory, cough:there are so many ways the planet can shed heat and the fact we have never seen catastrophic runaway warming since man inhabited earth leads me to believe we never will. there are many ways humans do contribute to some warming,but for me it is and always will be inconsequential in the big scheme of things.come the next glaciation we will need all the warming we can get. i will be dead by then so i don't really care.
Anne Elk, dinosaur expert
And:
First, I asked Stephen Belcher, the head of the Met Office Hadley Centre, whether the recent extended winter was related to global warming.
Shaking his famous “ghost stick”, and fingering his trademark necklace of sharks’ teeth and mammoth bones, the loin-clothed Belcher blew smoke into a conch, and replied,
“Here come de heap big warmy. Bigtime warmy warmy. Is big big hot. Plenty big warm burny hot. Hot! Hot hot! But now not hot. Not hot now. De hot come go, come go. Now Is Coldy Coldy. Is ice. Hot den cold. Frreeeezy ice til hot again. Den de rain. It faaaalllll. Make pasty.”
…
For a final word, I turned to the greatest climate change scientist of all, Dr David Viner, one-time senior research scientist at the climatic research unit of the University of East Anglia, who predicted in 2000 that, within a few years, winter snowfall would become “a very rare and exciting event”.
However, he was trapped under a glacier in Stockport, so was unable to comment at the time the Telegraph went to press.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46614138
Named by the MD of an environmental firm who wanted to push climate change into the news again...can’t think why he’d do that?! What does he gain?
Named by the MD of an environmental firm who wanted to push climate change into the news again...can’t think why he’d do that?! What does he gain?
fakenews said:
Those thrusting themselves into the limelight to take cheap pot shots like that - even when they're slightly funny - resemble the climatio headuparsi species. Not a new discovery, variants have been known for decades.In other news..."in a paper published today by the Global Warming Policy Foundation Professor Ray Bates of University College Dublin explains the main reasons for the significant controversy about the latest IPCC report within the international community."
"The IPCC’s Special Report on a Global Warming of 1.5°C (SR1.5) was released by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in advance of the recent COP24 meeting in Katowice, Poland, but was not adopted by the meeting due to objections by a number of governments."
A download link for the pdf is at the GWPF webpage below. The author is an 'expert' working at an 'appealing HE authority' so the article should be appreciated by all
https://www.thegwpf.org/new-paper-documents-main-r...
In other news, held in Poland’s coal heartland COP 24 has been a success.
“This is a good agreement,” the European commissioner Miguel Cañete told the Guardian. “We have more to do but we can move forward now.”
Nicholas Stern, author of the seminal review of the economics of climate change, said: “This has been another summit of tough negotiations, but it has ultimately succeeded in its crucial primary task of agreeing the so-called rulebook for the Paris agreement.”
Onward and upward, leaving the luddites behind.
“This is a good agreement,” the European commissioner Miguel Cañete told the Guardian. “We have more to do but we can move forward now.”
Nicholas Stern, author of the seminal review of the economics of climate change, said: “This has been another summit of tough negotiations, but it has ultimately succeeded in its crucial primary task of agreeing the so-called rulebook for the Paris agreement.”
Onward and upward, leaving the luddites behind.
"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years since the Industrial Revolution.”
– Christiana Figueres (UN Climate Chief Says Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming)
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth as President of the UN Foundation
"sustainable development, poverty eradication and reducing inequalities, should be pursued on their own merits and not made dependent on unsettled climate science"
– Dr J Ray Bates, Climatologist
However, the name of the climate politics game is (obviously) politics as per the first two quotes, so fat chance! At least the Paris party was previously parped and is still in the poop, two nations out of the whole lot are anywhere near meeting 'obligations' according to Climate Tracker - stunning stuff it isn't but a great result nevertheless.
– Christiana Figueres (UN Climate Chief Says Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming)
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth as President of the UN Foundation
"sustainable development, poverty eradication and reducing inequalities, should be pursued on their own merits and not made dependent on unsettled climate science"
– Dr J Ray Bates, Climatologist
However, the name of the climate politics game is (obviously) politics as per the first two quotes, so fat chance! At least the Paris party was previously parped and is still in the poop, two nations out of the whole lot are anywhere near meeting 'obligations' according to Climate Tracker - stunning stuff it isn't but a great result nevertheless.
From a recent televised interview stateside involving Marc Morano from Climate Depot::
An additional insignificant transient delay in cooling arising from incremental tax gas changes is not permanent dangerous warming, which is nonscience.
Snip from the transcript said:
Stuart Varney: Now I take no position. I’m not, in my editorials I’m not arguing that yes, it, climate change exists, yes it is human, I don’t take a position, but what is your position? Is the, is the planet warming, and if it is warming, is it result of human activity? Where are you coming from?
Marc Morano: Very simple. Humans impact the climate but any impact is indistinguishable from natural variability. In other words you cannot distinguish the human impact in the current climate
But yes but no but yes some activists can see invisible things that ought to be visible (or believe others who say they can see invisible things, no better).Marc Morano: Very simple. Humans impact the climate but any impact is indistinguishable from natural variability. In other words you cannot distinguish the human impact in the current climate
An additional insignificant transient delay in cooling arising from incremental tax gas changes is not permanent dangerous warming, which is nonscience.
turbobloke said:
"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years since the Industrial Revolution.”
– Christiana Figueres (UN Climate Chief Says Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming)
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth as President of the UN Foundation
"sustainable development, poverty eradication and reducing inequalities, should be pursued on their own merits and not made dependent on unsettled climate science"
– Dr J Ray Bates, Climatologist
However, the name of the climate politics game is (obviously) politics as per the first two quotes, so fat chance! At least the Paris party was previously parped and is still in the poop, two nations out of the whole lot are anywhere near meeting 'obligations' according to Climate Tracker - stunning stuff it isn't but a great result nevertheless.
I did a google search for some comments and quotes from COP24. Those I read from officials, all basically stem back to one thing...a pursuit of socioeconomic change.– Christiana Figueres (UN Climate Chief Says Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming)
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth as President of the UN Foundation
"sustainable development, poverty eradication and reducing inequalities, should be pursued on their own merits and not made dependent on unsettled climate science"
– Dr J Ray Bates, Climatologist
However, the name of the climate politics game is (obviously) politics as per the first two quotes, so fat chance! At least the Paris party was previously parped and is still in the poop, two nations out of the whole lot are anywhere near meeting 'obligations' according to Climate Tracker - stunning stuff it isn't but a great result nevertheless.
As you say, it's all they're interested in.
Weird that...
stew-STR160 said:
turbobloke said:
"This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years since the Industrial Revolution.”
– Christiana Figueres (UN Climate Chief Says Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming)
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth as President of the UN Foundation
"sustainable development, poverty eradication and reducing inequalities, should be pursued on their own merits and not made dependent on unsettled climate science"
– Dr J Ray Bates, Climatologist
However, the name of the climate politics game is (obviously) politics as per the first two quotes, so fat chance! At least the Paris party was previously parped and is still in the poop, two nations out of the whole lot are anywhere near meeting 'obligations' according to Climate Tracker - stunning stuff it isn't but a great result nevertheless.
I did a google search for some comments and quotes from COP24. Those I read from officials, all basically stem back to one thing...a pursuit of socioeconomic change.– Christiana Figueres (UN Climate Chief Says Communism Is Best To Fight Global Warming)
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.“
– Timothy Wirth as President of the UN Foundation
"sustainable development, poverty eradication and reducing inequalities, should be pursued on their own merits and not made dependent on unsettled climate science"
– Dr J Ray Bates, Climatologist
However, the name of the climate politics game is (obviously) politics as per the first two quotes, so fat chance! At least the Paris party was previously parped and is still in the poop, two nations out of the whole lot are anywhere near meeting 'obligations' according to Climate Tracker - stunning stuff it isn't but a great result nevertheless.
As you say, it's all they're interested in.
Weird that...
BBC attacked by the people to whom its most active figureheads believe it has the greatest affinity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
I don't follow the politics as much, as I find it frankly depressing, but I stumbled on this piece on COP24 and UNEP's ex-head Eric Solheim today:
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/opinion-post/the-v...
which all sounds far too familiar.
I had wondered what had happened to Maurice Strong after his role in kicking this all off. And seemingly China involved in both. Curious.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/opinion-post/the-v...
which all sounds far too familiar.
I had wondered what had happened to Maurice Strong after his role in kicking this all off. And seemingly China involved in both. Curious.
LongQ said:
BBC attacked by the people to whom its most active figureheads believe it has the greatest affinity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
This in the story:-https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
"Serena Schellenberg of Extinction Rebellion said: 'Now more than at any time in its history, we need the BBC to honour its founding value to be ''independent, impartial and honest''.
'We're facing a potentially existential threat to both our nation and our species, but the BBC's coverage is nowhere close to reflecting this."
The Beebs a totally biased propaganda led company re CC. How the bloody hell protestors can claim this is beyond logic.
robinessex said:
LongQ said:
BBC attacked by the people to whom its most active figureheads believe it has the greatest affinity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
This in the story:-https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
"Serena Schellenberg of Extinction Rebellion said: 'Now more than at any time in its history, we need the BBC to honour its founding value to be ''independent, impartial and honest''.
'We're facing a potentially existential threat to both our nation and our species, but the BBC's coverage is nowhere close to reflecting this."
The Beebs a totally biased propaganda led company re CC. How the bloody hell protestors can claim this is beyond logic.
If both pro and anti AGW nutters think the BBC are biased then chances are that they’re actually getting it right.
El stovey said:
robinessex said:
LongQ said:
BBC attacked by the people to whom its most active figureheads believe it has the greatest affinity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
This in the story:-https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6520481/B...
Some people seem to be entirely lacking concepts of reality.
"Serena Schellenberg of Extinction Rebellion said: 'Now more than at any time in its history, we need the BBC to honour its founding value to be ''independent, impartial and honest''.
'We're facing a potentially existential threat to both our nation and our species, but the BBC's coverage is nowhere close to reflecting this."
The Beebs a totally biased propaganda led company re CC. How the bloody hell protestors can claim this is beyond logic.
If both pro and anti AGW nutters think the BBC are biased then chances are that they’re actually getting it right.
The BBC's 'dirty little secret' lands it in a new scandal
The truth of a secret meeting that decided BBC policy on climate change has come out online
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9684775/The-BB...
"Beyond my logic" ? You bloody blind or something?
it took a while, but yet another bent watermelon finally gets his comeuppance.
Cambridge academic caught on plane with £100,000 in a box of chocolates jailed over £2.8m green energy scam
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/21/cambri...
Cambridge academic caught on plane with £100,000 in a box of chocolates jailed over £2.8m green energy scam
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/21/cambri...
wc98 said:
it took a while, but yet another bent watermelon finally gets his comeuppance.
Cambridge academic caught on plane with £100,000 in a box of chocolates jailed over £2.8m green energy scam
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/21/cambri...
About time, we need to see more of this. Chances of it being isolated are the same as snow becoming a rare and exciting event, given the history which includes less-publicised cases such as a 'waste' operator jailed over a £2m recycling fraud, Beale of the EPA ($900k fraud, felony theft), and the Eton / Oxford son-of-a-judge in a £100m scam which involved investing in "ethical" environmental projects. Then there's the Swedish scientists who committed scientific misconduct in a recent paper on microplastic pollution and fish (guilty of having intentionally fabricated data). Cambridge academic caught on plane with £100,000 in a box of chocolates jailed over £2.8m green energy scam
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/21/cambri...
Even though the MSM don't give this type of fraud the repeated headline coverage it deserves, the sound of kerching is worse than previously thought; more cases coming through mean it's not yet settled science.
turbobloke said:
About time, we need to see more of this. Chances of it being isolated are the same as snow becoming a rare and exciting event, given the history which includes less-publicised cases such as a 'waste' operator jailed over a £2m recycling fraud, Beale of the EPA ($900k fraud, felony theft), and the Eton / Oxford son-of-a-judge in a £100m scam which involved investing in "ethical" environmental projects. Then there's the Swedish scientists who committed scientific misconduct in a recent paper on microplastic pollution and fish (guilty of having intentionally fabricated data).
Even though the MSM don't give this type of fraud the repeated headline coverage it deserves, the sound of kerching is worse than previously thought; more cases coming through mean it's not yet settled science.
the number of unsavoury characters involved in greenwash both in academia and various related industries is quite concerning. almost as if they see "saving the planet" virtuosity (it surely is an art form Even though the MSM don't give this type of fraud the repeated headline coverage it deserves, the sound of kerching is worse than previously thought; more cases coming through mean it's not yet settled science.
) as giving them a get out of jail free card on how they behave in other areas of life.usually when people promoting other people giving them lots of money get caught out it brings the spotlight on the veracity of whatever they were promoting. yet in the climate/green industry debate it only seems to be some "bloggers" that are taking a serious look up until now. i note none of the prominent "bloggers" in this field seem to have been convicted of fraud or malpractice to date. funny old world.
wc98 said:
turbobloke said:
About time, we need to see more of this. Chances of it being isolated are the same as snow becoming a rare and exciting event, given the history which includes less-publicised cases such as a 'waste' operator jailed over a £2m recycling fraud, Beale of the EPA ($900k fraud, felony theft), and the Eton / Oxford son-of-a-judge in a £100m scam which involved investing in "ethical" environmental projects. Then there's the Swedish scientists who committed scientific misconduct in a recent paper on microplastic pollution and fish (guilty of having intentionally fabricated data).
Even though the MSM don't give this type of fraud the repeated headline coverage it deserves, the sound of kerching is worse than previously thought; more cases coming through mean it's not yet settled science.
the number of unsavoury characters involved in greenwash both in academia and various related industries is quite concerning. almost as if they see "saving the planet" virtuosity (it surely is an art form Even though the MSM don't give this type of fraud the repeated headline coverage it deserves, the sound of kerching is worse than previously thought; more cases coming through mean it's not yet settled science.
) as giving them a get out of jail free card on how they behave in other areas of life.usually when people promoting other people giving them lots of money get caught out it brings the spotlight on the veracity of whatever they were promoting. yet in the climate/green industry debate it only seems to be some "bloggers" that are taking a serious look up until now. i note none of the prominent "bloggers" in this field seem to have been convicted of fraud or malpractice to date. funny old world.
Talking of Blogs................
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/michael-man...
dickymint said:
Talking of blogs and greenwashing..................
Talking of Blogs................
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/michael-man...
by the time that case is finished the court papers will be old enough to use as a historical proxy for something. probably bullsTalking of Blogs................
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/michael-man...
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