Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. (Vol 5)
Discussion
CO2
250-350ppm Normal background concentration in outdoor ambient air
350-1,000ppm Concentrations typical of occupied indoor spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000ppm Complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000-5,000 ppm Headaches, sleepiness and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight
nausea may also be present.
5,000 Workplace exposure limit (as 8-hour TWA) in most jurisdictions.
>40,000 ppm Exposure may lead to serious oxygen deprivation resulting in permanent brain damage, coma, even death.
So we need to increase CO2 by a factor of 100 to make it dangerous. I wouldn't worry about that myself
250-350ppm Normal background concentration in outdoor ambient air
350-1,000ppm Concentrations typical of occupied indoor spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000ppm Complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000-5,000 ppm Headaches, sleepiness and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight
nausea may also be present.
5,000 Workplace exposure limit (as 8-hour TWA) in most jurisdictions.
>40,000 ppm Exposure may lead to serious oxygen deprivation resulting in permanent brain damage, coma, even death.
So we need to increase CO2 by a factor of 100 to make it dangerous. I wouldn't worry about that myself
DocJock said:
It is not mental gymnastics. It is educating you on your ignorance.
You do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff from? Breathing air without CO2 will not kill you. The amount of bYou do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
ks posted in this thread is unbelievable.That looks a bit wiki-esque?
Actual studies on actual people at work in nuclear submarines show that operating at 8000 ppmv for extended periods of time is fine, if a nuke sub was remotely at risk this would not be allowed to happen. The level goes up to 12,000 ppmv and nobody panics. We're currently at 400 ppmv and grown adults are hysterical. The hysteria is not due to carbon dioxide
Actual studies on actual people at work in nuclear submarines show that operating at 8000 ppmv for extended periods of time is fine, if a nuke sub was remotely at risk this would not be allowed to happen. The level goes up to 12,000 ppmv and nobody panics. We're currently at 400 ppmv and grown adults are hysterical. The hysteria is not due to carbon dioxide
Here we go again. Another day off school.
Climate strike: Thousands protest across UK
Thousands of people are protesting across the UK, with pupils leaving schools and workers downing tools as part of a global "climate strike" day.
Millions are taking part around the world with rallies in British cities including Glasgow, Manchester and London, urging "climate justice".
Anna Taylor, 18, a co-founder of UK Student Climate Network said it was "very easy" to get people to show up.......continues
Brainwashed kids again. 8 yrs old !!! Wonder where the parents are?
Climate strike: Thousands protest across UK
Thousands of people are protesting across the UK, with pupils leaving schools and workers downing tools as part of a global "climate strike" day.
Millions are taking part around the world with rallies in British cities including Glasgow, Manchester and London, urging "climate justice".
Anna Taylor, 18, a co-founder of UK Student Climate Network said it was "very easy" to get people to show up.......continues
Brainwashed kids again. 8 yrs old !!! Wonder where the parents are?
booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
It is not mental gymnastics. It is educating you on your ignorance.
You do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff from? Breathing air without CO2 will not kill you. The amount of bYou do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
ks posted in this thread is unbelievable.I'll assume you are aware that there's a minimum CO2 concentration that can support plant life? And that before the Industrial Revolution, we were getting scarily close to that point (150ppm iirc)?
booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
It is not mental gymnastics. It is educating you on your ignorance.
You do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff from? Breathing air without CO2 will not kill you. The amount of bYou do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
ks posted in this thread is unbelievable.turbobloke said:
At least you've realised that it's not a poison.
Next, when you realise that we're not going to see 400 ppmv increase to 8000 or 50000 ppmv (125x current levels in gas given to people in medical emergencies) then the 'prospect' you appear to think is real is in fact non-existent and the threat from it likewise. Nothing strangly is going to happen, fret not. Why do you think the gas given to people in need of emergency care is 125x current atmospheric levels if it was actually dangerous - it's fine.
You've just admitted it is an asphyxiant. It's used for short periods under medical supervision. You couldn't function normally if that's what you're breathing all day every day.Next, when you realise that we're not going to see 400 ppmv increase to 8000 or 50000 ppmv (125x current levels in gas given to people in medical emergencies) then the 'prospect' you appear to think is real is in fact non-existent and the threat from it likewise. Nothing strangly is going to happen, fret not. Why do you think the gas given to people in need of emergency care is 125x current atmospheric levels if it was actually dangerous - it's fine.
Once again, at what point do you stop pumping out a gas capable of asphyxiating you faster than it is absorbed by the planet?
robinessex said:
CO2
250-350ppm Normal background concentration in outdoor ambient air
350-1,000ppm Concentrations typical of occupied indoor spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000ppm Complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000-5,000 ppm Headaches, sleepiness and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight
nausea may also be present.
5,000 Workplace exposure limit (as 8-hour TWA) in most jurisdictions.
>40,000 ppm Exposure may lead to serious oxygen deprivation resulting in permanent brain damage, coma, even death.
So we need to increase CO2 by a factor of 100 to make it dangerous. I wouldn't worry about that myself
Once again, that's not accurate. Current CO2 levels are already over 400ppm. So just over double and we are already seeing the negative affects listed.250-350ppm Normal background concentration in outdoor ambient air
350-1,000ppm Concentrations typical of occupied indoor spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000ppm Complaints of drowsiness and poor air.
2,000-5,000 ppm Headaches, sleepiness and stagnant, stale, stuffy air. Poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight
nausea may also be present.
5,000 Workplace exposure limit (as 8-hour TWA) in most jurisdictions.
>40,000 ppm Exposure may lead to serious oxygen deprivation resulting in permanent brain damage, coma, even death.
So we need to increase CO2 by a factor of 100 to make it dangerous. I wouldn't worry about that myself
bodhi said:
I'm guessing "this stuff" comes from fairly elementary Biology textbooks. Humans cannot exist without CO2, as the plants we eat and our food eats use it in Photosynthesis. No CO2 -> No Photosynthesis -> No plants -> no humans.
I'll assume you are aware that there's a minimum CO2 concentration that can support plant life? And that before the Industrial Revolution, we were getting scarily close to that point (150ppm iirc)?
Yeah, the human race wasn't far off extinction because there wasn't enough CO2. Wew, this just gets better and better. I'll assume you are aware that there's a minimum CO2 concentration that can support plant life? And that before the Industrial Revolution, we were getting scarily close to that point (150ppm iirc)?
Where's the thread crack pipe? I haven't had a go yet.
booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
It is not mental gymnastics. It is educating you on your ignorance.
You do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff from? Breathing air without CO2 will not kill you. The amount of bYou do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
ks posted in this thread is unbelievable.Where do you get your b
ks from?bodhi said:
booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
It is not mental gymnastics. It is educating you on your ignorance.
You do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff from? Breathing air without CO2 will not kill you. The amount of bYou do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
ks posted in this thread is unbelievable.I'll assume you are aware that there's a minimum CO2 concentration that can support plant life? And that before the Industrial Revolution, we were getting scarily close to that point (150ppm iirc)?
The pH of blood should be maintained at close to 7.4. If the pH drops below 6.8 or rises above 7.8 for a period of time, death is on the way. Fortunately, we have a pH buffer in the blood to protect against large changes in pH. This buffer is a carbonate/hydrogencarbonate buffer which depends on: sufficient carbon dioxide being in the blood. See hypocapnia aka hypocarbia and note that 7.8 is rather close to 7.4 A vicious circle can arise leading to cardiac failure and death, also pulmonary oedema and death.
PH: pH matters.
ETA beaten to it by Docjock who will correct anything above if needs be.
booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
It is not mental gymnastics. It is educating you on your ignorance.
You do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
Honestly, where do you get this stuff from? Breathing air without CO2 will not kill you. The amount of bYou do know that you would die if CO2 levels fall too low? Some 'poison' if you can't survive without it.
ks posted in this thread is unbelievable.You all need to take a big breath and step back. No comments about what that breath is made up of please !
I think the common sense approach is to reduce CO2 by investing money now so that it is cheaper later for all, just by advancing technology. That is the crux of the matter, a cheap energy source that does not have drawbacks, the arguments about AGW would then tend to go away, it would be more of a scientific curiosity that will finally be answered, or better pinned down.
The big oil companies are moving away from oil into the next thing that will make them money. They would love something that is far cheaper to produce and give back bigger profits. Shell is putting $2 billion into this, which is small for them admittedly on their capex, but big in that field. This trend will continue.
It does not help when they then get hammered by
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun...
He's actually living in the past it seems though he probably thinks he is for the future. Times change, but they move at the pace of technology.
DocJock said:
I get it from my training as a practitioner of general anaesthesia. Your body can mitigate hypocapnia for a while(with negative effect on your central nervous system) but not as a permanent state.
Where do you get your bks from?
Hypocapnia does not occur because of a lack of atmospheric CO2 as you well know. The CO2 in your blood is largely sourced from chemical reactions inside your body.Where do you get your b
ks from?DocJock said:
That all looks tickety-boo turbobloke.
I'm feeling daft now, getting dragged back into this thread and arguing with someone who seems proud of their ignorance...
As you will appreciate it happens often I'm feeling daft now, getting dragged back into this thread and arguing with someone who seems proud of their ignorance...
no that should be 
Docjock said:
after months of not posting. I'm back off into my box
Totally understandable.booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
I get it from my training as a practitioner of general anaesthesia. Your body can mitigate hypocapnia for a while(with negative effect on your central nervous system) but not as a permanent state.
Where do you get your bks from?
Hypocapnia does not occur because of a lack of atmospheric CO2 as you well know. The CO2 in your blood is largely sourced from chemical reactions inside your body.Where do you get your b
ks from?The point is, carbon dioxide is essential to us, not a poison, you may have got that by now hopefully. Levels up to and above 8000 ppmv - which the planet has never seen with max 7000 ppmv iirc, and will not be seen - are not harmful as nuclear submariners have shown, so fret not.
DocJock said:
That all looks tickety-boo turbobloke.
I'm feeling daft now, getting dragged back into this thread and arguing with someone who seems proud of their ignorance, after months of not posting. I'm back off into my box.
You could start by pointing out where I'm wrong. A lack of CO2 in the air will not harm you.I'm feeling daft now, getting dragged back into this thread and arguing with someone who seems proud of their ignorance, after months of not posting. I'm back off into my box.
booboise blueboys said:
DocJock said:
That all looks tickety-boo turbobloke.
I'm feeling daft now, getting dragged back into this thread and arguing with someone who seems proud of their ignorance, after months of not posting. I'm back off into my box.
You could start by pointing out where I'm wrong. A lack of CO2 in the air will not harm you.I'm feeling daft now, getting dragged back into this thread and arguing with someone who seems proud of their ignorance, after months of not posting. I'm back off into my box.
Nobody can win a climate change argument as it is a non trivial problem still being worked on, all we can do is exchange points of view and learn something to be more educated about progress.
Gandahar said:
How is that relative to climate change . the political debate? I posted earlier about this going off topic and seems to be, as normal, people just wanting to win an argument.
Nobody can win a climate change argument as it is a non trivial problem still being worked on, all we can do is exchange points of view and learn something to be more educated about progress.
Apologies. Just pointing out blatant lies when they are made by some to back up their arguments.Nobody can win a climate change argument as it is a non trivial problem still being worked on, all we can do is exchange points of view and learn something to be more educated about progress.
booboise blueboys said:
So you admit this has the potential to kill a lot of people.
Understand yet why people might not be too pleased about that prospect?
fUnderstand yet why people might not be too pleased about that prospect?
k me, not another "humans are special" advocate. are they churning you lot out of some special facility at the moment or something.guess what, every single f
king thing alive on this planet today is going to die, every single fking thing. eventually the entire planet will die when the sun goes supernova. i don't give a flying f
k what your mum, gran or greta fking thunberg told you, you aren't special and you are going to die at some point. now fk off back to climate melts are us or wherever you fking weirdo's come from.and breathe , ahh that's better.
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