Take-up of MMR vaccine falls for fourth year in a row.

[popeyewhite]

minimoog said:

popeyewhite said:

He's not actually posted any insults towards those who don't share his opinion yet. I'd suggest your comment is somewhat back-to-front.

I'd suggest you're not making much sense yourself with this comment.

He's not the one getting wound up and being offensive. Any clearer?

[minimoog]

popeyewhite said:

He's not the one getting wound up and being offensive. Any clearer?

Not really - where did I say he was?

[anonymous-user]

Woody John said:

Its nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

Most effective for who? The medical practice processing plant?
I have genuine concerns and was given a blunt no to spacing vaccinations.
Yet they are happy to have the childs vaccinations delayed because I wont have them all in one go.
Makes me question the very foundations of their agenda.

Without trying to be rude here, what makes you think you know better than scientists and doctors?

If the vast majority of the worldwide medical and scientific community tell me something is perfectly safe for my children, I will go along with it.

[_dobbo_]

popeyewhite said:

He's not the one getting wound up and being offensive. Any clearer?

Arguing against vaccinating children is pretty offensive to me.

[Tankrizzo]

Badda said:

I amazed that this level of outright thick has pervaded PH. I know there’s some sub-optimal intelligence on here when it comes to race, religion and general acceptance of others but I had no idea there’d be anti-Vaxxers on here, the absolute stupidest of all people. Jesus Christ.

Me too. Mind I do note that one of the prime movers is the same bloke who was calling for a mentally-ill woman who killed her child to be shot.

[gregs656]

Jasandjules said:

What about those with confirmed Hep A, B, HiV? Should they be allowed into school? Why do you only fear the illnesses for which there is an existing vaccine? What about HPV? What about those vaccinated who are shedding? Why should they be allowed? What about those who are immune compromised?

What about those Muslims or Christians who do not vaccinate for Religious Reasons? Are you suggesting their Religion and beliefs are unacceptable to you or wrong?

I am sure there are precautions in place for children who already have the disease, as there should be. HIV medication is such that if you take it properly you have a undetectable viral load and cant pass it on, for example.

As for religion, anyone who exposes their child to this kind of suffering has a belief that is unacceptable and wrong.

[Oakey]

Woody John said:

So the risky vaccination prevents people getting a perfectly natural disease.
That disease then mutates and the vaccinated people end up getting a more complex version of the same disease.

Sounds like a lose lose to me.

I'd post a proper reply but I'm way too busy fighting off all this super mutated Smallpox

[Some Gump]

popeyewhite said:

I'm not so sure. It's virtually taking the right to decide whether you want your child vaccinated or not away from parents.

(Not aimed at you personally, it's the easiest way to phrase it):

Infection is simple. To get infected, you have to meet the pathogen. An infected person has to give it to you. If you choose to not vaccinate your child, you've made a decision that affects not only for your child, but the local population as a whole.
Italy has decided that my right to want to minimise risk to my child is of greater importance than your right to expose your child (and mine) to risk. They will have done this on a cost / benefit basis counting in both the human cost (suffering when ill, possible death) and economic cost (see cost of treating measles in CDC data earlier).

They can do this quite easily because the mmr is not controversial in any scientifically proven way. It is only controversial in discussion with the uneducated via sensationalist bks. They have quite rightly decided that no parent should be allowed to put 29 classmates at risk based on incorrect understanding of a simple topic. They have decided that their health system doesn't need unnecessary burden which affects everyone else via both taxes and hospital performance.

Homestly, i really hope that other countries follow suit. When people aren't equipped to make the right decisions, sometimes the authorities need to make that decision for them. See MOT's to enforce car maintainance, drink drive limits, heroin being illegal and all the various health and safety things that have stopped industry killing us all via pollutants in the air...

[durbster]

Woody John said:

I would prefer building natural immunity.
...
All very natural. Why prevent this?

This is key. This illusion that natural things are better for us is pervading our society. What a sign of how privileged we are now; we've already forgotten the horrors that drove us to devise the protections we enjoy.

The simple fact is: nature has a million ways to make us suffer or die. Nature is not there for our benefit, it's not designed to look after us. Nature is not our friend, and generations of suffering that came before us is proof of that.

If nature was so good to us, we wouldn't have had to invent vaccines.

[anonymous-user]

popeyewhite said:

minimoog said:

popeyewhite said:

He's not actually posted any insults towards those who don't share his opinion yet. I'd suggest your comment is somewhat back-to-front.

I'd suggest you're not making much sense yourself with this comment.

He's not the one getting wound up and being offensive. Any clearer?

A calm imbecile is still an imbecile. Clear?

[Woody John]

Lord Marylebone said:

Woody John said:

Its nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

Most effective for who? The medical practice processing plant?
I have genuine concerns and was given a blunt no to spacing vaccinations.
Yet they are happy to have the childs vaccinations delayed because I wont have them all in one go.
Makes me question the very foundations of their agenda.

Without trying to be rude here, what makes you think you know better than scientists and doctors?

If the vast majority of the worldwide medical and scientific community tell me something is perfectly safe for my children, I will go along with it.

Rotarix for example prevents the body naturally protecting itself by expelling via diarrhea and vomiting.
Putting the child at risk in my view.

[durbster]

Woody John said:

Rotarix for example prevents the body naturally protecting itself by expelling via diarrhea and vomiting.
Putting the child at risk in my view.

That opinion is based on what?

[rscott]

Woody John said:

Rotarix for example prevents the body naturally protecting itself by expelling via diarrhea and vomiting.
Putting the child at risk in my view.

Only if the cause of the diarrhea or vomiting is the rotavirus.

[NRS]

durbster said:

Woody John said:

I would prefer building natural immunity.
...
All very natural. Why prevent this?

This is key. This illusion that natural things are better for us is pervading our society. What a sign of how privileged we are now; we've already forgotten the horrors that drove us to devise the protections we enjoy.

The simple fact is: nature has a million ways to make us suffer or die. Nature is not there for our benefit, it's not designed to look after us. Nature is not our friend, and generations of suffering that came before us is proof of that.

If nature was so good to us, we wouldn't have had to invent vaccines.

Between this thread and the Brexit stuff today just makes me realise how many stupid people there are out there.

Why not expose our kids to ebola and let them naturally build resistance in populations over time? Only perhaps 50% of them need to die, but it's good because it's natural immunity...

[968]

rscott said:

Woody John said:

Rotarix for example prevents the body naturally protecting itself by expelling via diarrhea and vomiting.
Putting the child at risk in my view.

Only if the cause of the diarrhea or vomiting is the rotavirus.

Jesus Christ. As above, the rotavirus vaccine doesn’t stop diarrhoea and vomiting, unless it’s caused by the rotavirus. There are other causes of diarrhoea and vomiting. I really hope he realises that.

[anonymous-user]

Woody John said:

Lord Marylebone said:

Woody John said:

Its nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

Most effective for who? The medical practice processing plant?
I have genuine concerns and was given a blunt no to spacing vaccinations.
Yet they are happy to have the childs vaccinations delayed because I wont have them all in one go.
Makes me question the very foundations of their agenda.

Without trying to be rude here, what makes you think you know better than scientists and doctors?

If the vast majority of the worldwide medical and scientific community tell me something is perfectly safe for my children, I will go along with it.

Rotarix for example prevents the body naturally protecting itself by expelling via diarrhea and vomiting.
Putting the child at risk in my view.

That isn’t answering my question.

My question is: What makes you think you know better than thousands of doctors and scientists?

[Woody John]

durbster said:

Woody John said:

I would prefer building natural immunity.
...
All very natural. Why prevent this?

This is key. This illusion that natural things are better for us is pervading our society. What a sign of how privileged we are now; we've already forgotten the horrors that drove us to devise the protections we enjoy.

The simple fact is: nature has a million ways to make us suffer or die. Nature is not there for our benefit, it's not designed to look after us. Nature is not our friend, and generations of suffering that came before us is proof of that.

If nature was so good to us, we wouldn't have had to invent vaccines.

Non-sense. Clean water, enough nourishing foods and comfortable homes combined with efficient sewage systems were the main reasons for a vast improvement in health on the whole.

You need to evaluate your relationship with the natural world. That is scary.

[gregs656]

None of those things will prevent a person catching a disease that will make them suffer terribly and may kill them.

[968]

Woody John said:

Non-sense. Clean water, enough nourishing foods and comfortable homes combined with efficient sewage systems were the main reasons for a vast improvement in health on the whole.

You need to evaluate your relationship with the natural world. That is scary.

Slightly massive flaw on your argument is in developed countries where vaccinations have been stopped for certain diseases, like pertussis, the incidence of the disease went up massively despite good sanitation and improved health.

[durbster]

Woody John said:

Non-sense. Clean water, enough nourishing foods and comfortable homes combined with efficient sewage systems were the main reasons for a vast improvement in health on the whole.

You need to evaluate your relationship with the natural world. That is scary.

If your natural world is so good for us, why did we need to do those things?

Cleaning up water means removing naturally occurring harmful material from it. Improving nourishment is learning what natural foods are harmful. Improved hygiene means killing or preventing naturally forming bacteria, and improving sewage means getting our natural turds as far away from us as possible, because they're full of naturally occurring stuff that makes us incredibly sick.