The people's vote
Discussion
jsf said:
More than half the people who voted dont agree.
Indeed, but as I said earlier, complicated questions such as this shouldn't be left to Joe Public (and that includes me and you). It has became very apparent that none of us had the full facts when the referendum was held. Parliament wouldn't have voted for Brexit. Russian Troll Bot said:
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Russian Troll Bot... Would you be ok with me sharing this post elsewhere?, I wouldn't be taking credit for composing it. It wouldPeople have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
be well worth others posting this on social media et al, it really is something that silences remainers like nothing else, as seen
so evidently here, not a single peep from any, not that there are many that have the skills to compete with that anyway.
I sent it to one of my best friends who is a remainer, we can talk about anything without becoming embroiled in petty childish
squabbles (as you find on here so monotonously) and always tell it how it is, I asked him for his opinion and this was what he sent back....
'Haha it did kind of rattle my cage I must admit mate, not a lot I can say about it, there
are certainly a few points there that I couldn't really argue with. Where did you find that?.'
Usually a man of many words, but that was it, just shows how awesome a post it is and completely ignored by those that consistently
spew venomous bile all day long on here. Their silence is deafening
.dromond said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Russian Troll Bot... Would you be ok with me sharing this post elsewhere?, I wouldn't be taking credit for composing it. It wouldPeople have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
be well worth others posting this on social media et al, it really is something that silences remainers like nothing else, as seen
so evidently here, not a single peep from any, not that there are many that have the skills to compete with that anyway.
I sent it to one of my best friends who is a remainer, we can talk about anything without becoming embroiled in petty childish
squabbles (as you find on here so monotonously) and always tell it how it is, I asked him for his opinion and this was what he sent back....
'Haha it did kind of rattle my cage I must admit mate, not a lot I can say about it, there
are certainly a few points there that I couldn't really argue with. Where did you find that?.'
Usually a man of many words, but that was it, just shows how awesome a post it is and completely ignored by those that consistently
spew venomous bile all day long on here. Their silence is deafening
.I get bombarded with texts/emails from him every time he reads anything from slightly unhinged to doomladen and which supports Remain/2nd ref, I've not had anything since I sent the above.
So if the above stops all the detritus I get I'm grateful to the Bot for that alone
dromond said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
The entire strategy of this People's vote seems to be let's try again, we will win this time, then the matter will be sorted. The vote to leave was the largest single mandate in British history, and a large part of why they won was people feeling ignored by the government and the elites. If we overturn the result, how can we expect people to ever trust the democratic process again? How will ignoring the wishes of a group who felt they were ignored help them? We were told in no uncertain terms that this was a once in a generation decision and the results would be implemented. Every argument they put forward is illogical:
People have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
Russian Troll Bot... Would you be ok with me sharing this post elsewhere?, I wouldn't be taking credit for composing it. It wouldPeople have the right to change their minds. If there really has been such a sudden shift in 2 years then we will need to keep holding bi-annual referendums.
Those who weren't 18 at the time didn't get a say in their future - what about those who will be under 18 for the next vote?
We deserve a vote on the final deal - if we decide to Remain, we will have to have another vote on the terms the EU offer us to rejoin.
It's only advisory anyway - if that is true then the second vote will be as well.
If you're so confident of winning, why are you scared of a second vote - if you're so confident of winning the second vote, then let's have a third right after. If you're so confident, you'll win that as well.
Most of the voters have died off - in that case, let's ban the elderly and terminally ill people from voting in elections. They won't be around to see the results anyway.
People are better informed - all I see is Project Fear 1.0 being replaced by Project Fear 2.0. Predictions of an instant Armageddon were proven wrong, now we are told with a straight face about such things as the RAF delivering supplies, civil disorder, lack of sandwiches, super STDs and more chance of being hit by asteroids (all of which are genuine no-deal claims)
People didn't know what they were voting for - what type of Remain did people vote for? One that keeps the UK's current trade deals? One that allows us future re-negotiation? One with the option to join the Euro? One that keeps our veto? One that makes us part of the Schengen agreement?
Vote Leave broke the law - odd how people are so easily mislead that a misfiled spending return which was done on the advice of the Electoral Commission was enough to decidedly swing the vote. Yet a £9 million taxpayer-funded leaflet campaign, the PM, Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition, the EU, then-President of the USA, almost every politician and media outlet, the Civil Service, the Bank of England and countless celebrities and academics were unable to do so.
Finally, given that Remain have done nothing but attempt to undermine and overturn the result since day 1, why should they expect people to respect the outcome if it does go their way?
be well worth others posting this on social media et al, it really is something that silences remainers like nothing else, as seen
so evidently here, not a single peep from any, not that there are many that have the skills to compete with that anyway.
I sent it to one of my best friends who is a remainer, we can talk about anything without becoming embroiled in petty childish
squabbles (as you find on here so monotonously) and always tell it how it is, I asked him for his opinion and this was what he sent back....
'Haha it did kind of rattle my cage I must admit mate, not a lot I can say about it, there
are certainly a few points there that I couldn't really argue with. Where did you find that?.'
Usually a man of many words, but that was it, just shows how awesome a post it is and completely ignored by those that consistently
spew venomous bile all day long on here. Their silence is deafening
.El stovey said:
ukbabz said:
Has the peoples anything ever actually worked out well for people?
The people’s princess.The people’s republic of .
The people’s liberation. . .
I think you’re right.
Integroo said:
I agree that a second vote is undemocratic and shouldn't occur. I think Brexit is a catastrophically bad idea. I think it should simply be stopped, for the good of the country. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I thought a referendum was a bad idea in the first place!
Why shouldn't a second vote happen, because it is undemocratic? Or is that just incidental?If that is the reason, yes, wanting the first referendum just overturned makes you a massive hypocrite. I'm surprised you think there's a chance that it doesn't!
amusingduck said:
Why shouldn't a second vote happen, because it is undemocratic? Or is that just incidental?
If that is the reason, yes, wanting the first referendum just overturned makes you a massive hypocrite. I'm surprised you think there's a chance that it doesn't!
We shouldn't have had a referendum in the first place but we can't just keep having referendums until we get the answer I want. I was anti Scottish independence and was very against a second referendum there so can hardly say I want a second referendum here!If that is the reason, yes, wanting the first referendum just overturned makes you a massive hypocrite. I'm surprised you think there's a chance that it doesn't!
However I would still vote for a party that says they would stop Brexit. Hypocrite or not.
alfie2244 said:
Vote Libdems last time out?
I actually voted Labour as Corbyn didn't feel quite as extreme as he does today and I hadn't yet forgiven the Lib Dems for the coalition and in particular tuition fees, but I would probably vote Lib Dems were there a general election tomorrow.
Integroo said:
I actually voted Labour as Corbyn didn't feel quite as extreme as he does today and I hadn't yet forgiven the Lib Dems for the coalition and in particular tuition fees, but I would probably vote Lib Dems were there a general election tomorrow.
I think the news quiz highlighted that tuition fees were "hardly Iraq". And as many commentators have said, their acquiescence on the topic of tuition fees was a complex function of the coalition - a construct the electorate were not used to in terms of compromise. Integroo said:
alfie2244 said:
Vote Libdems last time out?
I actually voted Labour as Corbyn didn't feel quite as extreme as he does today and I hadn't yet forgiven the Lib Dems for the coalition and in particular tuition fees, but I would probably vote Lib Dems were there a general election tomorrow.Vaud said:
I think the news quiz highlighted that tuition fees were "hardly Iraq". And as many commentators have said, their acquiescence on the topic of tuition fees was a complex function of the coalition - a construct the electorate were not used to in terms of compromise.
They should have refused to enter into coalition with the Tories - either allowed them to form a minority government or alternatively entered into coalition with Labour, with whom they are much closer to ideologically. One whiff of power though ...Integroo said:
El stovey said:
Are they still a party? I thought they’d disbanded. They need to do some publicity or get some MPs or something.
I don't particularly want to vote for the Liberals, but I also don't want to vote for anyone else ...Integroo said:
amusingduck said:
Why shouldn't a second vote happen, because it is undemocratic? Or is that just incidental?
If that is the reason, yes, wanting the first referendum just overturned makes you a massive hypocrite. I'm surprised you think there's a chance that it doesn't!
We shouldn't have had a referendum in the first place but we can't just keep having referendums until we get the answer I want. I was anti Scottish independence and was very against a second referendum there so can hardly say I want a second referendum here!If that is the reason, yes, wanting the first referendum just overturned makes you a massive hypocrite. I'm surprised you think there's a chance that it doesn't!
However I would still vote for a party that says they would stop Brexit. Hypocrite or not.
pgh said:
So in effect, you rank tuition fees as being of more importance than membership of the EU? (not trying to be unpleasant, just writing out my thoughts).
In an attempt at seeming less confrontational that my sentence above might suggest, my feelings about tuition fees are that I really hope universities are changing in kind - I lost count of the number of times I turned up for a lecture only to find the lecturer had decided they had other things to do. If I'd been paying the current levels of tuition fees I'd have been extremely non-plussed.
No. We were in a different place as regards Brexit and party politics at the time of the general election than we are now, and I thought Labour would pose the strongest opposition to the Conservatives. In an attempt at seeming less confrontational that my sentence above might suggest, my feelings about tuition fees are that I really hope universities are changing in kind - I lost count of the number of times I turned up for a lecture only to find the lecturer had decided they had other things to do. If I'd been paying the current levels of tuition fees I'd have been extremely non-plussed.
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