Italy defies it's Economy Minister...
Discussion
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I bet if Greece could go back to 1999 and NOT join the Euro they would take 865 job losses as a pretty reasonable price to pay.
The last thing a nation with a poor record of collecting tax and a high degree of political corruption (at all levels) needed was 'free' EU money pumping into the system. I can distinctly remember arguing with my Greek BIL in 2001 in relation to the situation. The memory is crystal clear not least because we flew home whilst 9/11 attacks were happening and landed back at Manchester to pandemonium, but also what was noticeable was the transformation under way, from the Greece I/we new, to somewhere with massive amounts of 'investment'.I am missing something Insuspevt but the EC say no to a budget and Italy do it anyway so the EC / EU fine Italy but how do they collect that etc. In reality what can they do to to Italy that won't hurt other nations an increase anti EU sentiment.
Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
Gecko1978 said:
I am missing something Insuspevt but the EC say no to a budget and Italy do it anyway so the EC / EU fine Italy but how do they collect that etc. In reality what can they do to to Italy that won't hurt other nations an increase anti EU sentiment.
Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
The EU care not one jot, and it seems the EU27 are going along with them.Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
What the EU are doing enforces some peoples belief that the EU are not fit to rule and has caused a lot of resentment towards them.
Many times the EU have stated they don't get involved with a Countries sovereignty. Until they do need to get involved with a countries sovereignty.
The EU, Eurozone, ECB, etc. Same 5hit, different bucket.
After this comment - "This is the first Italian budget that the EU doesn't like," wrote Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio on Facebook. "No surprise: This is the first Italian budget written in Rome and not in Brussels!"
It'll be interesting to see who blinks first ...
Many times the EU have stated they don't get involved with a Countries sovereignty. Until they do need to get involved with a countries sovereignty.
The EU, Eurozone, ECB, etc. Same 5hit, different bucket.
After this comment - "This is the first Italian budget that the EU doesn't like," wrote Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio on Facebook. "No surprise: This is the first Italian budget written in Rome and not in Brussels!"
It'll be interesting to see who blinks first ...
don'tbesilly said:
Gecko1978 said:
I am missing something Insuspevt but the EC say no to a budget and Italy do it anyway so the EC / EU fine Italy but how do they collect that etc. In reality what can they do to to Italy that won't hurt other nations an increase anti EU sentiment.
Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
The EU care not one jot, and it seems the EU27 are going along with them.Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
The EU don't care about the people of Europe and this is just another example
don'tbesilly said:
Gecko1978 said:
Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
The EU care not one jot, and it seems the EU27 are going along with them.The EU are trying to get a deal together (not that they want the UK to leave in the first place). It's the hard-core head-banging right-wing of the Tory party who keep wrecking the chances of anything being done - the same people who caused this whole sorry mess in the first place.
TooMany2cvs said:
don'tbesilly said:
Gecko1978 said:
Brexit will hurt the UK agreed but without a deal its going to hurt countries in the EU also.
The EU care not one jot, and it seems the EU27 are going along with them.The EU are trying to get a deal together (not that they want the UK to leave in the first place). It's the hard-core head-banging right-wing of the Tory party who keep wrecking the chances of anything being done - the same people who caused this whole sorry mess in the first place.
The rest of your post simply isn't worth responding to, so I won't bother.
richie99 said:
Gecko1978 said:
Back in topic
if Italy do not revise their budget what can the EU do. I assume not release EU funds perhaps would be the extent of it
The EU will do nothing. Same as they have with France and Germany. if Italy do not revise their budget what can the EU do. I assume not release EU funds perhaps would be the extent of it
I suppose they could ask for Italy's Target 2 balance to be paid off?
They can't even stop extending credit to italy via Traget 2 as that might cause people to ask the obvious question....
Is there any restitution available that doesn't result in that budget deficit increasing?
The Italians will back down.
They can't even stop extending credit to italy via Traget 2 as that might cause people to ask the obvious question....
Is there any restitution available that doesn't result in that budget deficit increasing?
The Italians will back down.
Gecko1978 said:
I think the Italians will back down but as Target2 gives everyone in the EU the benefit of a higher rating it matters little that Italian goverment bonds might go down again just print more.
As always a deal will be done to gloss over this
I’m not sure the government will back down since the situation is very different right now:As always a deal will be done to gloss over this
1) They have a 65% appreciation rating at the moment.
2) Other EU countries, notably Germany and France (with Moscovici as finance minister) have repeatedly breached the 3% deficit limit.
3) The proposed budget brings the deficit to 2.4% well within the 3% limit.
4) The primary deficit for Italy is negative, one of the few countries in Europe.
5) If the EU wants to create an issue on that, then they should start looking at Germany systematically breaching the 6% limit on trade surplus.
Some of the proposals on the budget are imho idiotic, don’t get me wrong, but right now the majority of Italians is still pro-EU, with the elections coming up and Brexit unraveling all at the same time, the Commission should be careful about how many battles they want to fight simultaneously.
Enricogto said:
I’m not sure the government will back down since the situation is very different right now:
1) They have a 65% appreciation rating at the moment.
2) Other EU countries, notably Germany and France (with Moscovici as finance minister) have repeatedly breached the 3% deficit limit.
3) The proposed budget brings the deficit to 2.4% well within the 3% limit.
4) The primary deficit for Italy is negative, one of the few countries in Europe.
5) If the EU wants to create an issue on that, then they should start looking at Germany systematically breaching the 6% limit on trade surplus.
Some of the proposals on the budget are imho idiotic, don’t get me wrong, but right now the majority of Italians is still pro-EU, with the elections coming up and Brexit unraveling all at the same time, the Commission should be careful about how many battles they want to fight simultaneously.
A case of do as we say , not as we do.1) They have a 65% appreciation rating at the moment.
2) Other EU countries, notably Germany and France (with Moscovici as finance minister) have repeatedly breached the 3% deficit limit.
3) The proposed budget brings the deficit to 2.4% well within the 3% limit.
4) The primary deficit for Italy is negative, one of the few countries in Europe.
5) If the EU wants to create an issue on that, then they should start looking at Germany systematically breaching the 6% limit on trade surplus.
Some of the proposals on the budget are imho idiotic, don’t get me wrong, but right now the majority of Italians is still pro-EU, with the elections coming up and Brexit unraveling all at the same time, the Commission should be careful about how many battles they want to fight simultaneously.
Quelle Suprise.
Digga said:
The greater problem is not what the EU will do to Italy, but rather what the markets will do to Italian bonds and banks and, by extension, the Eurozone.
Could be interesting, especially when the bond holders get bailed in and Italian OAPs pension savings get vaporized. Significant contagion into Germany / France banking sector..This could be the inflexion point, where the post Financial Crisis punishment of the banks blows up in the face of the Govts whom inflicted it. You cook up a system that requires private sector support of public sector debt balloon (with a tame central bank treating all members debt pari-passu), and you've effectively correlated everyone to elected d*ckheads. Genius plan. Genius.
Won't happen of course, expect some can kicking and the ECB doing more retard.
Why we had to have a BREXIT vote before the EU managed to blow up their economy is the bigger travesty here.
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