Don't Mention the War. Or Churchill.
Discussion
Dog Star said:
I am getting really sick of all these feminist/"progressives"/"people of colour"/LGBT/ADHD/differently abled constantly bleating about how they're offended or whatever. Seriously why can't they just FUUUUUUCCCCKKKK OOFFFFFFF!!!! Always whinging - "cultural appropriation" (tell you what then, how about if white girls can't have their hair braided, you don't use electricity? Fair trade?), or screaming about the GOP (while forgetting the likes of Bill Clinton/Anthony Weiner).
Then when things don't go their way they scream and have a riot (and the excuse is always that "we have no other option left".
And don't even start me on the beta cuck males that hang out demonstrating with feminists or whites hanging out at "black lives matter" demos.
Is it just me or is this "offended by everything" business a new thing? I don't remember it ever being so bad - is it down to social media?
This sort of thing.....
SJW meltdown
Lay off the booze and get more exercise. It's good for the mood.Then when things don't go their way they scream and have a riot (and the excuse is always that "we have no other option left".
And don't even start me on the beta cuck males that hang out demonstrating with feminists or whites hanging out at "black lives matter" demos.
Is it just me or is this "offended by everything" business a new thing? I don't remember it ever being so bad - is it down to social media?
This sort of thing.....
SJW meltdown
Edited by Dog Star on Tuesday 9th October 08:32
irocfan said:
Vaud said:
irocfan said:
Let's put it another way- imagine a timeline with no Churchill from 1938 onwards
By 2010 we would have had an overly powerful European superstate that overly controlled most aspects of 300M peoples rules, regulations and sought increased harmonization/standardization on many, many levels.Oh, wait a minute.
Johnnytheboy said:
If Mr Kelly had quoted Stalin or Mao, for example, would he have been pressured to resign so quickly?
They were just cuddly communists, nothing like the evil fascists, Hitler and Churchill. Even Diane Abbot can see that Mao did more good than harm, so he cant be bad can he? The 59.6 million people he killed would be glad to have sacrificed their lives to world socialism and fairness. Eric Mc said:
Kelly is of Irish-American immigrant descent. Many older Irish or older Irish-Americans harbour a bit of a grudge against British Imperialism - of which Churchill was a strong advocate.
Before Pearl Harbor, the Irish-American contingent in American politics was strongly against the US getting involved in the war. They were so vociferous that on occasions Roosevelt had to slap some Irish-American Senators and Congressmen down for making anti-British and seemingly pro-Fascist comments. Even the US Ambassodor - Joe Kennedy (an Irish-American and JFK's dad) was pretty anti-British and no friend of Churchill.
Maybe a bit of that was behind what he said.
That makes no sense at all. If he harboured anti-British imperialist opinions he's unlikely to have made the initial comment. Nothing more on display than an ignorant comment followed by a spineless climbdown IMO.Before Pearl Harbor, the Irish-American contingent in American politics was strongly against the US getting involved in the war. They were so vociferous that on occasions Roosevelt had to slap some Irish-American Senators and Congressmen down for making anti-British and seemingly pro-Fascist comments. Even the US Ambassodor - Joe Kennedy (an Irish-American and JFK's dad) was pretty anti-British and no friend of Churchill.
Maybe a bit of that was behind what he said.
fblm said:
That makes no sense at all. If he harboured anti-British imperialist opinions he's unlikely to have made the initial comment. Nothing more on display than an ignorant comment followed by a spineless climbdown IMO.
In your opinion - as you say.Which you are entitled to.
My comment was a suggestion rather than a statement of fact. You might have spotted the word "maybe" in there. It may not even be my opinion.
fblm said:
Eric Mc said:
My comment was a suggestion rather than a statement of fact.
Obviously. A suggestion that makes no sense.You never know what family lore and upbringing does to a person's perception of characters from history. Being Irish myself I know for a fact that Mr Churchill will not be everybody's favourite historical character. Indeed, he threatened Ireland with invasion a number of times during the war as well as castigating the Irish government for its neutral stance.
I actually admire Churchill a lot. "Young Winston" is one of my favourite films and I've had "My Early Life" in my book collection for decades. He was a flawed character and made plenty of mistakes - some of which cost lots of lives. But there is no doubt he was instrumental in ensuring Nazi Germany was eventually defeated - and may even have saved democracy for much of the world.
I wonder what he would think of current developments?
Eric Mc said:
IYO - as you admitted.
Yes, well done, IMO "One of the greatest leaders of modern times, Sir Winston Churchill said, in victory, magnanimity. I guess those days are over.” simply cannot be interpreted as the words of someone with a reasoned, informed or inherited hatred of British Imperialism. It's a ridiculous mental leap that makes no sense.Vandenberg said:
Dog Star said:
And don't even start me on the beta cuck males that hang out demonstrating with feminists or whites hanging out at "black lives matter" demos.
I always assumed the males were there to get lucky with the protesters. Edited by Dog Star on Tuesday 9th October 08:32
The internet has a lot of good points but the way that misinformation can easily become fact for people is shocking.
One of the people on here said that bombing Dresden was genocide, clearly it wasn't but at the time it was a means to an end. Like bombing the dams it was designed to cripple industry and to send fear into the populace.
With today's sensitivities, war by the West can only be fought if you give warnings and never kill civilians deliberately. Back then London coventry were all bombed just as bad, but the public knew that our boys were doing just the same to them so no one cared how many died over there they were the enemy who were killing their sons and daughters.
Churchill was flawed but he was instrumental in beating the Nazi's which meant we have society today as we know it. The one which allows individuals to say what they want.
The sad thing is that like in the second world war, Goebbells said, "tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth" the internet allows a small minority with a certain view to propagate a new truth that some will latch on to as it suit their agenda.
The Guy who quoted Churchill was right, he did not punish the defeated German public, he was not gloating over their downfall he was magnanimous in victory. The twitter mob have got another collective scalp and this emboldens them to do more, censoring anyone whose views they disagree with.
One of the people on here said that bombing Dresden was genocide, clearly it wasn't but at the time it was a means to an end. Like bombing the dams it was designed to cripple industry and to send fear into the populace.
With today's sensitivities, war by the West can only be fought if you give warnings and never kill civilians deliberately. Back then London coventry were all bombed just as bad, but the public knew that our boys were doing just the same to them so no one cared how many died over there they were the enemy who were killing their sons and daughters.
Churchill was flawed but he was instrumental in beating the Nazi's which meant we have society today as we know it. The one which allows individuals to say what they want.
The sad thing is that like in the second world war, Goebbells said, "tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth" the internet allows a small minority with a certain view to propagate a new truth that some will latch on to as it suit their agenda.
The Guy who quoted Churchill was right, he did not punish the defeated German public, he was not gloating over their downfall he was magnanimous in victory. The twitter mob have got another collective scalp and this emboldens them to do more, censoring anyone whose views they disagree with.
fblm said:
Yes, well done, IMO "One of the greatest leaders of modern times, Sir Winston Churchill said, in victory, magnanimity. I guess those days are over.” simply cannot be interpreted as the words of someone with a reasoned, informed or inherited hatred of British Imperialism. It's a ridiculous mental leap that makes no sense.
IYO.You can believe what you like.
amusingduck said:
Academic Christina Sommers wrote: “Please don’t apologize. Winston Churchill, like all of us, had serious human failings. But unlike most of us—he possessed genuine greatness. And that greatness may have saved freedom & democracy. Ask the Twitter scolds to name a hero or heroine who didn’t have serious flaws.”
Nail -> Head.
Indeed - the freedom and democracy that enables us to watch TV, make programmes like this etc and for the snowflakes to be upset.Nail -> Head.
Atomic12C said:
+1
I do wonder what is going through the mind-set of some people in their interpretation of history.
Some modern interpretations seem to forget the reality of the situation during the years of conflict (and a disrespect of the values of the people of the day) and is portraying a 'modern' set of values and political swing that seemingly serves nothing but a political agenda.
Absolutely spot on. Was having this very discussion this morning with my son. It seems that society now seems to think that it is appropriate to judge historical figures by the norms and values of 2018, it is ludicrous in the extreme. I do wonder what is going through the mind-set of some people in their interpretation of history.
Some modern interpretations seem to forget the reality of the situation during the years of conflict (and a disrespect of the values of the people of the day) and is portraying a 'modern' set of values and political swing that seemingly serves nothing but a political agenda.
lenandsons said:
Absolutely spot on. Was having this very discussion this morning with my son. It seems that society now seems to think that it is appropriate to judge historical figures by the norms and values of 2018, it is ludicrous in the extreme.
Why? Why shouldn’t that be part of the conversation? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff