Saudi Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi

Saudi Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi

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Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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BlackLabel said:
Makes you cringe doesn't it. This is a bit like a modern day Chamberlain moment but on so far a smaller scale.

Ironically after the Arab spring we seem to have less than ideal leaders in Turkey, Saudi and Syria in 2018.

Bring back Muammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein. OK, maybe not, but things are not getting better over there.

Israel is loving this current state of affairs ironically.


B210bandit

513 posts

97 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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Same leaders in Syria and Saudi as they've had for a long time. Britain helped carve the place up and hasnt helped at all in recent years.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

123 months

Saturday 1st December 2018
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B17NNS

Original Poster:

18,506 posts

247 months

Saturday 1st December 2018
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Wall Street Journal says MBS communicated with adviser during Khashoggi killing.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/12/mbs-communi...

JagLover

42,416 posts

235 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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Is being a "journalist" how you would term the following

WashingtonPost said:
Perhaps most problematic for Khashoggi were his connections to an organization funded by Saudi Arabia’s regional nemesis, Qatar. Text messages between Khashoggi and an executive at Qatar Foundation International show that the executive, Maggie Mitchell Salem, at times shaped the columns he submitted to The Washington Post, proposing topics, drafting material and prodding him to take a harder line against the Saudi government
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/jamal-khashoggis-final-months-an-exile-in-the-long-shadow-of-saudi-arabia/2018/12/21/d6fc68c2-0476-11e9-b6a9-0aa5c2fcc9e4_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.88e14d0f0e79

Man of the year though smile

Escapegoat

5,135 posts

135 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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What's your point - that he wasn't independent enough to care about?

Whether he was under Qatari influence is neither here nor there. Victim blaming (especially of a murder victim) is pretty scummy. It remains the standard MO of those who want to excuse brutality.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

123 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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Khashoggi was clearly on the fence when it came to certain things - for example he lobbied the King Salman government for millions so that he could effectively become yet another Saudi lobbyist masquerading as a journalist in Washington. He also worked for Prince Turki Al Faisal the long-standing head of Saudi intelligence - the same Saudi intelligence agency which has murdered and tortured countless people through the years. Ironically, this the same Saudi agency, albeit under different leadership now, which is accused of playing it's part in Khashoggi's death. Moreover, at times he sympathised with extremist Islam and even admitted that he was heartbroken and collapsed crying when his friend Osama Bin Laden died (although he did condemn OBL at the same time for his crimes).

Nevertheless, the path he choose towards the end of his life was that of an honest and honourable journalist and he took on the Saudi government head on knowing full well it would put his life in danger- he could have chosen to live an easy life doing something else but he didn't. Despite his shady past I think he died a principled and brave man and deserves all the praise he's been getting.

Edited by BlackLabel on Tuesday 1st January 18:24

JagLover

42,416 posts

235 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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Escapegoat said:
What's your point - that he wasn't independent enough to care about?

Whether he was under Qatari influence is neither here nor there. .
If he were a liberal minded journalist revealing the truth about various shady middle eastern countries then his death would have been a tragedy.

I am just pointing out that the definition of "journalist" isn't usually takes material from his paymaster and copies and pastes into an opinion piece. Perhaps you have a different definition of journalist. The Washington Post is uneasy enough about it to now admit to it in an article hedged about with excuses, like his supposed poor English.

Khashoggi has been lauded as a "liberal" voice but in truth he was member of the Muslim Brotherhood and was certainly not on the side of liberalism or secularism. In truth much of the misconceptions about this case stem from ignorance in the western media of the aims of the Muslim Brotherhood.

He did not deserve to die in such a fashion of course just rather questioning why he was the supposed "man of the year".



Exige77

6,518 posts

191 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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I believe the point is, murder is murder so nothing changed but the victim wasn’t just a regular journo just going about his business ?

skwdenyer

16,501 posts

240 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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More interesting seems to be today's reports that the Turks heard the plotters plotting to kill him the day before the murder, with the clear indication that they elected not to warn him...

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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Exige77 said:
I believe the point is, murder is murder so nothing changed but the victim wasn’t just a regular journo just going about his business ?
And that makes a difference why?

Does the crime of murder reduce based on the nature of the victim?

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

123 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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Khashoggi being outed as a potential Qatari asset is an interesting development. It’s also telling that it’s his former employer the Washington Post that’s putting the information out there, this isn’t just some wacko conspiracy theory from the likes of Donald Trump jnr. No one on here is justifying his murder by simply sharing this news.

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Tuesday 1st January 2019
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BlackLabel said:
Khashoggi being outed as a potential Qatari asset is an interesting development. It’s also telling that it’s his former employer the Washington Post that’s putting the information out there, this isn’t just some wacko conspiracy theory from the likes of Donald Trump jnr. No one on here is justifying his murder by simply sharing this news.
I am not so sure. Those who want top visit violence on those they disagree with will always try to find reasons to justify it - or excuse it.

Exige77

6,518 posts

191 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2019
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Eric Mc said:
Exige77 said:
I believe the point is, murder is murder so nothing changed but the victim wasn’t just a regular journo just going about his business ?
And that makes a difference why?

Does the crime of murder reduce based on the nature of the victim?
I don’t think anybody is suggesting the crime is reduced are they ?

It’s adding some context as to “why” the murder might have been commited.





Escapegoat

5,135 posts

135 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2019
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Exige77 said:
I don’t think anybody is suggesting the crime is reduced are they ?

It’s adding some context as to “why” the murder might have been commited.
Yes; in exactly the same way that when someone you love is raped, we are OK to discuss "why" her choice of clothes contributed to the crime.

Oh, hang on...

Exige77

6,518 posts

191 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2019
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Escapegoat said:
Exige77 said:
I don’t think anybody is suggesting the crime is reduced are they ?

It’s adding some context as to “why” the murder might have been commited.
Yes; in exactly the same way that when someone you love is raped, we are OK to discuss "why" her choice of clothes contributed to the crime.

Oh, hang on...

Not the same at all.

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2019
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Exige77 said:
I don’t think anybody is suggesting the crime is reduced are they ?

It’s adding some context as to “why” the murder might have been commited.
Aha - so they had a REASON to do it. That's fine then. Can't have people voicing opposition can we.

Halb

53,012 posts

183 months

Exige77

6,518 posts

191 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2019
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Eric Mc said:
Exige77 said:
I don’t think anybody is suggesting the crime is reduced are they ?

It’s adding some context as to “why” the murder might have been commited.
Aha - so they had a REASON to do it. That's fine then. Can't have people voicing opposition can we.
It’s not fine at all.

When something like this happens it’s useful to understand the full story.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

123 months

Thursday 3rd January 2019
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