How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)

[Nickgnome]

SpeckledJim said:

Nickgnome said:

G
You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

QFP, Professor.

So that moved the discussion on. Not sure what is wrong with FAQ when QFP is well known in the microprossor industry. They really love their TLAs as I found when asked to join an OT S back in the 90s.

[s2art]

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

I'm not sure why you believe our government / civil service will be able to carry out complex negations more swiftly than the EU. That was not my experience when involved negotiating government contracts. In the main, this is much to do with the complexity of the negotiation rather than any particular slowness of the parties.

We saw what happened with the Canada trade deal. Many members of the EU had their own axe to grind, including the Walloons. It made the negotiations complex and difficult. By contrast when the USA and Australia did one it took less than 18 months. We will be in a similar position.

Assuming we have the level of resource with sufficient expertise and experience to carry out several extremely large agreements in parallel. I’d like to understand your background to be able to make such a bold statement.

Missing the point. We already have people with sufficient expertise and experience and more can be hired if required. IIRC New Zealand offered us their experienced negotiators to assist.I guess that if we are doing a trade deal with the USA we would request experts from Australia as well. There are even back benchers with experience, Peter Lilly for one and probably some Lords. (personally I would rope in Digby Jones even if he has never done a FTA he has plenty of experience in negotiations)

You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

Wrong again.

One of them is https://iea.org.uk/shanker-singham/. Do your own homework if you want more..

[Nickgnome]

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

I'm not sure why you believe our government / civil service will be able to carry out complex negations more swiftly than the EU. That was not my experience when involved negotiating government contracts. In the main, this is much to do with the complexity of the negotiation rather than any particular slowness of the parties.

We saw what happened with the Canada trade deal. Many members of the EU had their own axe to grind, including the Walloons. It made the negotiations complex and difficult. By contrast when the USA and Australia did one it took less than 18 months. We will be in a similar position.

Assuming we have the level of resource with sufficient expertise and experience to carry out several extremely large agreements in parallel. I’d like to understand your background to be able to make such a bold statement.

Missing the point. We already have people with sufficient expertise and experience and more can be hired if required. IIRC New Zealand offered us their experienced negotiators to assist.I guess that if we are doing a trade deal with the USA we would request experts from Australia as well. There are even back benchers with experience, Peter Lilly for one and probably some Lords. (personally I would rope in Digby Jones even if he has never done a FTA he has plenty of experience in negotiations)

You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

Wrong again.

One of them is https://iea.org.uk/shanker-singham/. Do your own homework if you want more..

That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?

How do you organise and structure your Team?

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

[B'stard Child]

Nickgnome said:

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nice little earner I’m sure for all involved what was the cost to the project?

[Nickgnome]

B'stard Child said:

Nickgnome said:

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nice little earner I’m sure for all involved what was the cost to the project?

What relevance has that to the discussion? Actually no not the total cost by a significant margin.

[s2art]

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

I'm not sure why you believe our government / civil service will be able to carry out complex negations more swiftly than the EU. That was not my experience when involved negotiating government contracts. In the main, this is much to do with the complexity of the negotiation rather than any particular slowness of the parties.

We saw what happened with the Canada trade deal. Many members of the EU had their own axe to grind, including the Walloons. It made the negotiations complex and difficult. By contrast when the USA and Australia did one it took less than 18 months. We will be in a similar position.

Assuming we have the level of resource with sufficient expertise and experience to carry out several extremely large agreements in parallel. I’d like to understand your background to be able to make such a bold statement.

Missing the point. We already have people with sufficient expertise and experience and more can be hired if required. IIRC New Zealand offered us their experienced negotiators to assist.I guess that if we are doing a trade deal with the USA we would request experts from Australia as well. There are even back benchers with experience, Peter Lilly for one and probably some Lords. (personally I would rope in Digby Jones even if he has never done a FTA he has plenty of experience in negotiations)

You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

Wrong again.

One of them is https://iea.org.uk/shanker-singham/. Do your own homework if you want more..

That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?

How do you organise and structure your Team?

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nope, not the best I can provide. If you need educating then let me know what you will pay. BTW the Foreign office and other State bodies involved have more than several hundred bodies available.

[Nickgnome]

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

I'm not sure why you believe our government / civil service will be able to carry out complex negations more swiftly than the EU. That was not my experience when involved negotiating government contracts. In the main, this is much to do with the complexity of the negotiation rather than any particular slowness of the parties.

We saw what happened with the Canada trade deal. Many members of the EU had their own axe to grind, including the Walloons. It made the negotiations complex and difficult. By contrast when the USA and Australia did one it took less than 18 months. We will be in a similar position.

Assuming we have the level of resource with sufficient expertise and experience to carry out several extremely large agreements in parallel. I’d like to understand your background to be able to make such a bold statement.

Missing the point. We already have people with sufficient expertise and experience and more can be hired if required. IIRC New Zealand offered us their experienced negotiators to assist.I guess that if we are doing a trade deal with the USA we would request experts from Australia as well. There are even back benchers with experience, Peter Lilly for one and probably some Lords. (personally I would rope in Digby Jones even if he has never done a FTA he has plenty of experience in negotiations)

You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

Wrong again.

One of them is https://iea.org.uk/shanker-singham/. Do your own homework if you want more..

That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?

How do you organise and structure your Team?

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nope, not the best I can provide. If you need educating then let me know what you will pay. BTW the Foreign office and other State bodies involved have more than several hundred bodies available.

Interesting. On the numerous occasions I’ve been to Whitehall there weren’t too many spare bodies twiddling their thumbs. You must have seen different.

I’m retired but my education has never ceased. Perhaps you may want to try one day.

You’ve ducked the experience question so I can only assume you have none and have little or no management experience. There is an old adage. Stick to your knitting. You could try it.

[anonymous-user]

Just to clarify, we now have the expertise and resources to carry out all of our trade agreements with the world at the same time after we leave the EU and will complete them faster than the EU could.

Anyone wishing to be educated should contact a PH member informing them how much they are willing to pay to be educated.

Isn't Brexit great.

[Nickgnome]

Ghibli said:

Just to clarify, we now have the expertise and resources to carry out all of our trade agreements with the world at the same time after we leave the EU and will complete them faster than the EU could.

Anyone wishing to be educated should contact a PH member informing them how much they are willing to pay to be educated.

Isn't Brexit great.

My rates are very reasonable. I might be pursuaded to come out of retirement. £5k a day should do it plus expenses of course.

[tumble dryer]

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

I'm not sure why you believe our government / civil service will be able to carry out complex negations more swiftly than the EU. That was not my experience when involved negotiating government contracts. In the main, this is much to do with the complexity of the negotiation rather than any particular slowness of the parties.

We saw what happened with the Canada trade deal. Many members of the EU had their own axe to grind, including the Walloons. It made the negotiations complex and difficult. By contrast when the USA and Australia did one it took less than 18 months. We will be in a similar position.

Assuming we have the level of resource with sufficient expertise and experience to carry out several extremely large agreements in parallel. I’d like to understand your background to be able to make such a bold statement.

Missing the point. We already have people with sufficient expertise and experience and more can be hired if required. IIRC New Zealand offered us their experienced negotiators to assist.I guess that if we are doing a trade deal with the USA we would request experts from Australia as well. There are even back benchers with experience, Peter Lilly for one and probably some Lords. (personally I would rope in Digby Jones even if he has never done a FTA he has plenty of experience in negotiations)

You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

Wrong again.

One of them is https://iea.org.uk/shanker-singham/. Do your own homework if you want more..

That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?

How do you organise and structure your Team?

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nope, not the best I can provide. If you need educating then let me know what you will pay. BTW the Foreign office and other State bodies involved have more than several hundred bodies available.

Interesting. On the numerous occasions I’ve been to Whitehall there weren’t too many spare bodies twiddling their thumbs. You must have seen different.

I’m retired but my education has never ceased. Perhaps you may want to try one day.

You’ve ducked the experience question so I can only assume you have none and have little or no management experience. There is an old adage. Stick to your knitting. You could try it.

fk me, but you are an arrogant SOB.

As to the not many spare bodies hanging around Whitehall - are you for real?

So far all the spare bodies, and all the spare men, have only managed a monumental cock-up. Once again.

[B'stard Child]

Nickgnome said:

B'stard Child said:

Nickgnome said:

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nice little earner I’m sure for all involved what was the cost to the project?

What relevance has that to the discussion?

Oh I don't know but you aren't coming across very well in the thread so thought I'd try an lighten it a little

Nickgnome said:

Actually no not the total cost by a significant margin.

Didn't answer my question I'd expect the project team costs with a team of several hundred involved in a 1bn project to be a significant element of the project cost???

[Nickgnome]

tumble dryer said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

s2art said:

Nickgnome said:

I'm not sure why you believe our government / civil service will be able to carry out complex negations more swiftly than the EU. That was not my experience when involved negotiating government contracts. In the main, this is much to do with the complexity of the negotiation rather than any particular slowness of the parties.

We saw what happened with the Canada trade deal. Many members of the EU had their own axe to grind, including the Walloons. It made the negotiations complex and difficult. By contrast when the USA and Australia did one it took less than 18 months. We will be in a similar position.

Assuming we have the level of resource with sufficient expertise and experience to carry out several extremely large agreements in parallel. I’d like to understand your background to be able to make such a bold statement.

Missing the point. We already have people with sufficient expertise and experience and more can be hired if required. IIRC New Zealand offered us their experienced negotiators to assist.I guess that if we are doing a trade deal with the USA we would request experts from Australia as well. There are even back benchers with experience, Peter Lilly for one and probably some Lords. (personally I would rope in Digby Jones even if he has never done a FTA he has plenty of experience in negotiations)

You’re response indicates you have limited understanding of any sort of contract negotiation let alone a trade deal.

So who are these currently available experts in international negotiations and what have they been doing up until now?

Wrong again.

One of them is https://iea.org.uk/shanker-singham/. Do your own homework if you want more..

That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?

How do you organise and structure your Team?

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nope, not the best I can provide. If you need educating then let me know what you will pay. BTW the Foreign office and other State bodies involved have more than several hundred bodies available.

Interesting. On the numerous occasions I’ve been to Whitehall there weren’t too many spare bodies twiddling their thumbs. You must have seen different.

I’m retired but my education has never ceased. Perhaps you may want to try one day.

You’ve ducked the experience question so I can only assume you have none and have little or no management experience. There is an old adage. Stick to your knitting. You could try it.

fk me, but you are an arrogant SOB.

As to the not many spare bodies hanging around Whitehall - are you for real?

So far all the spare bodies, and all the spare men, have only managed a monumental cock-up. Once again.

So nothing positive to add except anger and bile. You have not the remotest idea of the expertise of our civil service or the integrity under which most operate.

I am sorry that I’ve been amazingly lucky in my life and that my clients gave me chance after chance to get it right. Strangely some for well over 20 years.

If you wish to tell me what particular expertise you have we may see how it can be applied to trade negotiations.

[Nickgnome]

B'stard Child said:

Nickgnome said:

B'stard Child said:

Nickgnome said:

I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.

Nice little earner I’m sure for all involved what was the cost to the project?

What relevance has that to the discussion?

Oh I don't know but you aren't coming across very well in the thread so thought I'd try an lighten it a little

Nickgnome said:

Actually no not the total cost by a significant margin.

Didn't answer my question I'd expect the project team costs with a team of several hundred involved in a 1bn project to be a significant element of the project cost???

I am sorry if I do not suffer fools gladly and unfortunately there are too many on here from both sides.

You are correct management is a significant part of a project cost. Needless to say it depends how it is measured. I don’t mean to be evasive but can be 5 to 40%

[B'stard Child]

Nickgnome said:

I am sorry if I do not suffer fools gladly and unfortunately there are too many on here from both sides.

Yeah the whole thing has been a bit polarising on here but as probably 99.9999% of the contributors to this and many other Brexit threads are not going to have any impact at all on the current situation it pays not to take it all too seriously

Nickgnome said:

You are correct management is a significant part of a project cost. Needless to say it depends how it is measured. I don’t mean to be evasive but can be 5 to 40%

I'd be amazed at as low as 5% - I'd expect 10-30% as a general rule of thumb but it really depends on the type of project and as you say how the costs are measured most of my knowledge is on capital projects in a manufacturing environment.

[gooner1]

Ghibli said:

Just to clarify, we now have the expertise and resources to carry out all of our trade agreements with the world at the same time after we leave the EU and will complete them faster than the EU could.

Anyone wishing to be educated should contact a PH member informing them how much they are willing to pay to be educated.

Isn't Brexit great.

Would you be kind enough to educate me on the price you were willing to pay
for a set of faux suede( pretend pigskin) dining chairs.

[wisbech]

tumble dryer said:

fk me, but you are an arrogant SOB.

As to the not many spare bodies hanging around Whitehall - are you for real?

So far all the spare bodies, and all the spare men, have only managed a monumental cock-up. Once again.

So we have the people waiting around to negotiate trade deals, but they are incompetent. Very reassuring!

[Jazzy Jag]

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

[wisbech]

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

But we want Canada +++, so not that straightforward

[PurpleMoonlight]

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

Great, we will be able to export maple syrup tariff free ...

[powerstroke]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

Great, we will be able to export maple syrup tariff free ...

Great, you truly are the master of the inane comment ....